Gotta Fix my '76

Well, Half way through, I got everything ripped out...Carpet, Panels, Seats, Seat belts, Dash (ew what a mess) and so on...

Now I've gota problem...whichever Bubba had the car before me squished the lab belts down under the carpet and into the well where it lived for probably 10 years until yesterday when I opened up the little hatch and found...UGH a rusted hunk of metal that was rusting the surrounding areas...No Good..>So after removing both lap belts from the left and right I now have to gapping holes where they wants rested. What do I DO!! :mad
Would this be the best route??

A) To spray it with a Rust-to-Metal chemical spray then
B) hit it with a Rust-OlEum Primer Paint
C) Weld a plate over that area that will stop water from coming into the interior from underneath. :smash:

Also, before I took out the carpet I was noticing that everytime it rained hard (even if the car set outside) the carpet right below the steering column would get wet...So I thought maybe it was coming from the T-Tops, but the steering column never seem to get wet...So could it be coming from the floor pans and leeking up through a crack in the seams??? Any Thoughts on that..

Thank You for your help...Anyone, have you delt with these issues and how have you handled them...Thank You

Bobchad

Depending on the the size of your holes you might be able to use the metal filler product from POR-15 to fill then in. Be aware that there is a drain hole in each of those wells that needs to remain open. If that won't work, then you may be able to weld some metal in place. Last resort, replace the floor pans. Basically what you have elaborated on with what I feel to be a more appropriate product.

I'm replacing the carpeting and have put POR-15's Metal Ready and paint all over the floor pans. Take a look at this link, selecting Front Carpet to see what I am talking about. http://home.attbi.com/~jchadwick/interior.htm

Your water problem is likely coming from above. Check the tray where the windshield wipers sit and get some strip caulk and windshield caulk and seal it up. It's possible that this is caused by a rust problem in your cowl area, what they call the "bird cage" though I understand this problem more often manifests itself with water coming down the sides of the front of the car rather than above the pedals.

Bob



[Modified by Bobchad, 11:37 AM 12/19/2002]

Stephen Irons

Cant help withthe seat belt issue, but a fe wthoughts on the drivers side floor getting wet.

If it occurs when the car is standing still then it's not coming up through the floor. Bubba is also well known for covering the well where the wipers live with rubber sealant, as this is a good place for water to get in from. But it can also get in through the screen pillar, particularly if the birdcage is rusted in this area.:( You probably need to get under the dash with a torch (oops, that's flashlight to you!) and see if you can see any water higher up. If it is coming from the screen pillar area it comes from around the light switch area and then runs across the cross member under the dash, drippiong off the column.

But also check the seals around the front of the door windows etc etc...

Widgett

I'm in the process of curing the water leaks on my 81 and there are several areas you need to check. The following areas are places where the water was leaking into my car.

1) At each back corner of the wiper well where the fiberglass firewall bonds to the metal birdcage. There is a 4" long area at each corner that water can run off the windshield and go right into this seam if the sealer is dried and cracked. There should have been some over hang in the design to protect this sealed seam, bad design IMO.

<A HREF="http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/65elcamino/81Firewall.JPG" TARGET="_blank">4" Firewall exposed area</A>

2) In the door jamb at the top front corner there is a gutter that directs the water forward to drip in front of the door hinges rather than directly on them. I also directs the water to the same seam in item 1 above. However, this is just different point of penetration. The fiberglass firewall now is a horizontal bond at his point. Unfortunately the fiberglass lays on top of the metal birdcage and the water flows into the seam rather than across it. The overlapping piece is should have been on the high side rather than the low side, continued bad design IMO.

<A HREF="http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/65elcamino/81DoorJamb.JPG" TARGET="_blank">Door jamb area</A>

3) Around the windshield bond/seal itself. I removed my windshield and found some light surface rust starting to penetrate the ws bond. It actually was not leaking at this point, but would be in the future. By removing the glass, I could get to the entire firewall to birdcage seam to completely redo all of it. The seam sealer under the windshield actually was still in good shape since the water couldn't get to it. Only the corners in item 1 and the lower jamb area in item 2 were dried out. The windshield frame weld seams should be resealed and smoothed for a good windshield bond.

Windshield and Firewall seam

4) The A-pillar reveal mldg has sealer between it and the windshield frame. This allowed the water to bypass the piller weatherstrip at the door glass seal. Water would run off the windshield into the gutter area beside the edge of the glass and then around the frame through the dried sealer in this area.

5) At the front corner, the vertical seam in the door jamb can allow water to penetrate but not as easily. I'm going to pull my doors off so I can get to this seam to reseal it, it can't be done with the doors in place. This is the side portion of the firewall to birdcage seam.

6) Water drain on outside of passenger kick panel area would allow water to back up into the fresh air vent on this side. Clean all debris out by removing flapper door from inside of the car.

7) The water shield between the interior door panel and the metal door frame must be properley installed and sealed to prevent water coming in from water draining to the inside of the metal door frame.

8) In the engine compartment, the studs that the hood latches are bolted to can allow water through. Again the sealant can be dried and cracked. My car would let the water from the wiper cowl area go underneath the front wall to get to these studs. The adhesive obviuosly did not make a complete seal when the front wall was bonded to the firewall panel.

Latch bolts and A/C box to firewall

9) In engine compartment where the A/C box seals to the firewall, the heat has dried the sealer and there was a gap of about 1/4". There was no foam rubber seal used, only sealer tha can dry out and crumble. Again a small leak of the wiper cowl would allow water to get in here. This also explains the heat I would feel on nice days when I had the fresh air vent selected and set at the coolest air temp.

10) Lastly, all weatherstripping should be checked for dried, cracked, or ripped places. I'm replacing all of the weatherstipping.

11) The T-top SS cover panel should be resealed at the back edge and front edge as well.

T-top Stainless steel cover panel

My car is an 81 and it has all of these problems even though it spent 60% of its life parked in a garage at night. If yours see rain fairly often, I bet you have most of these problems as well. Use a watering can that you can direct the water at these points to see if you have a problem there. Start at the lowest point first. Remove your carpet and seats so you can look up under the dash for the leaks. It's best if you can lay in there and have someone pour the water while you watch for the leak. My wife actually helped out with this. I haven't completed this job yet, so I can't confirm if this is the final list of leak points. I've studied the assembly manual and can't see any other places, so I think should cure my leaks. If it does, I can finally install my new front floor carpet that I've had for two years now.


[Modified by Widgett, 11:37 AM 12/21/2002]

Twin_Turbo

I have almost won the battle against rust, my arms were the sand blaster, POR15, flame zinc spraying (liquid zinc sprayed w/ an acetylene oxy flame) & powdercoat. I'm almost done.

Marck

Gotta Fix my '76

Wow, all good stuff, thank you...I'll let you know what I found...I appreciate the help and info....

Now where did I put my flame thingy :-) (thanks) :mad :thumbs:

BB wowbagger

With that topic,i thought George was back in the game again :cheers: :lol: :lol:

Stephen Irons

Wow, Brian (Widget), that's what I call a detailed list. i know what I'm going to be doing as soon as the weather is better here for working on the Vette! Do you have ideas on what to use to seal the leak around the seal area that you mentioned a couple of times? I have a strong suspicion that mine is leaking in this area, but haven't been able to prove that yet, or to see a way to fix easily......

Widgett

I'm using two types of sealer, 3M flexible strip caulk and 3M body joint bond and seam sealer. I used the 3M body strip caulk for the bolts, A/C box, and T-top SS cover panel. I used the 3M body joint and seam sealer product to redo the firewall, door jamb, and windshield frame seams.

The 3M flexible strip caulk stays soft and pliable that allows later access if necessary. The 3M body joint and seam sealer is like an adhesive sealer and bonds the joint as well as sealing it. This product that is used in the body shops to reseal these same areas. I warm the tube in front of my ready heater and apply it to the cleaned and rust treated seams. It skins over fairly quickly such that it is hard to get a nice smooth finish (it starts to stick to your finger and then gets tacky such that it won't smooth out). I dip my finger in some mineral spirits and use that to smooth the surface for a nice finished look (the mineral spirits thins the sealer and provides lubrication so that the sealer can be smoothed nicely).

I've applied two coats on all of my seams for a nice smooth look (better than the factory job and should make the water run past the joint). I've had to reapply a third layer on all of the windshield frame weld seams to get a perfectly smooth contour for the new windshield bond. There are spot welded joints at the top header rail, at the top of the pillar post, at the bottom of the pillar post, and at the lower sill rail. These joints are on each side, so double the last sentence for a total 8 joints to seal just on the windshield frame.

I have pictures of all of these areas and will try to post them for all to see.


[Modified by Widgett, 11:48 AM 12/21/2002]

Widgett

I added pictures to some of the above water leak points listed in my first reply. I also updated the products I used to do this reseal with.


[Modified by Widgett, 11:52 AM 12/21/2002]

SanDiegoPaul

~wOrK iN pRoGrEsS

Yep. I've never had a hot-rod that I thought was "done!" Every darn one of them needed something right up until the day I sold it. :mad

As for Corvettes, gosh it seems to be a bigger challenge than most. Mine has rust around each of the door windows and the windshield too. But underneath it is fine. No rust on the undercarrriage at all. :yesnod:

I'm just going to *drive it* and don't ever expect it to win any shows. But it will be fast and reliable. If I get to accomplish those two things I'll be happy!

mrvette

I found success with that area where the windshield frame joins the A pillar, and the fender is bonded in there also...on my '72....I just plain took an entire caulking gun size tube of RTV black and filled the entire area under the fender joints.....entire tube forced in place with fingers....up and under too....sealed both tigher than whale pus sy...and that's waterproof!!!!

stopped the leak cold....

now on later sharks without the operating wsw door...the trim out is a bit differant....and as such I would stuff the area with pipe wrapping/insulation...then back fill with RTV....trim out as necessary....

HEY I know it's not a perfect solution...but if you have a decent paint job and or just not pulling it apart......it's a good stable solution....

GENE

shoptek

EXCELLENT suggestions noted above:cheers: .
I too am chasing some leaks.

Please post any pics that anyone might have so I can better "see" the areas that are being spoken about.

Widgett

If you click on the links in my reply above, you'll see the areas I have written about.

Mrvette, My intent is not intent to **** you off, but I would not use the RTV sealer to just fill the area as you have suggested. Without the proper drainage, you will be promoting further rust and corrosion. My 65 El Camino had a similar application all around the front and rear windows. One of the previous owners just filled the entire window channel without repairing the rusted areas. It ended up having rusted out holes in the top corners of the windshield frame. :mad How do you get rust holes at the top, the water gets trapped and continues the rusting process. I suppose your method is fine if you plan on selling the vehicle, but not if you are going to keep it.

Gotta Fix my '76

Again, thank you soo much for your suggestions and ideas, this is one that I have tucked into the filing cabinet, for both now and the future...I can see that I'm not alone in catching the ever elusive dry interior :yesnod:

I haven't had a chance to get back into the car to check for dry spots...though I did find a local welding professional to actually come to my home and weld in a few sheets of metal so that I won't have holes in my floor pans the size of Texas :D I will check all of those places and seal them...Thank you for the great suggestions and links to pictures...I knew I loved this forum....Man you guys Rock!!
Can't wait to "finish" the interior...
:smash:

NHvette

Have you taken out the front kick panels, yet ?
A peek in here will bring a sigh of relief or a cringe.



Take a look at my web site for some eye-opening :eek: body rust pictures (75 section)
NHvette.com
:seeya


[Modified by Daves_rusty_75, 12:35 AM 12/22/2002]