71roadster

Man I am just so P... O'd. I bought these 190cc heads new from what I thought was and AFR distributer, who for now shall remain nameless. Before I bought them I asked about the CNC work and all the other components and was assured that they were the same heads AFR sells direct with the same work and components (they were $150 less then AFR charges). So I paid with a credit card and waited. After six weeks I found out I was charged the day I ordered and I still had no heads I called and was told it could take up to 8 weeks (when I ordered I was told 4 to 6 weeks). So after nine weeks I was told 10 weeks so I waited. 12 weeks and they finally arrived. I immediately noticed that the springs were 1.25 inch single springs (not the 1.47 inch double springs AFR lists), tho the heads were obviously cut for larger springs, and that the ports and chambers all looked hand finished. So I called and he explained that those are high end comp cams springs good for 0.600" lift :rolleyes: but the seat pressure is only about 110lbs. I told him I had the comp cams catalog in front of me and there was no 1.25" spring good for that lift. He stammered "maybe they are crane, I can't recall', so I told him I was taking them to my engine builder and would run it by him and that I was still not yet satisfied. The engine builder happens to be an AFR distributer (I ordered the heads before I found the builder) and he laughed when he saw the springs and said there was no way they would hold up for long to even .525" lift. He also pointed out that the ports had been hand finished and we set them down next to a set of 195's and could clearly see the machining marks left by the CNC operation on those heads. We could also see that the chambers were not at all the same and looked like the raw casting had simply been polished. There were ridges around the valves that are supposed to be removed by the CNC operation and we could see on the exhaust ports that mine were considerably smaller than the AFR direct heads :mad . It also looks like the chambers could have varying volumes just based on the way they look, not at all uniform. There is no way I am bolting these things onto my new 383! I tried this morning to call the shop up, but they keep very short phone hours. I just know this is going to be a battle and that even if they take the heads back, it will be at least 6 weeks until I can get new heads. I plan on calling them first thing monday morning and telling them I am not satisfied, that they misrepresented the product, and that I want my money back. If they cooperate, I'll drop it and only warn people about this shop when asked. If they don't, I'll call AFR and let them know what they are up to, call my credit card company and tell them I have been ripped off, and then get on every forum I can find and name the company and the facts. Any other ideas would be appreciated. The car is not quite ready for the engine, but it will only be two weeks at most. Looks like I will be putting the engine in as just a short block. Then it will be weeks of nothing...

forgot to mention the substituted 7 degree retainers for the advertised 10.

Thanks for letting me vent. :nopity

update: called the credit company and put the purchase in contest. They said either he will refund or they will force him. Resolution is coming. Just may take a while.


[Modified by 71roadster, 2:25 PM 12/13/2002]

Alwyn678

:cry :cry :cry BASTARDS :nonod:

81vette

I think I'd call the credit card company now.

mark

Robert N

Let them know that you did not receive what ordered and would like the charge suspended.

jerryjfunk

Yeah, definently call the credit card company now, see what can be done.

Good luck, I hope everything works out. I almost bought a set of 190cc AFRs off of Ebay... I decided that saving $400 wasn't worth the fact that they are 5 years old, "rebuilt", in another state, and that they arn't EXACTLY what I want (angle plug, 3/8" rocker studs instead of straight plugs and 7/16" studs).

Jerry

Gordonm

Man that really stinks. I read your post about the springs and thought that sounded a little fishy. Now I know why. Good luck with your battle. I know mine came with 1.47 springs. The upgrade was to 1.55 springs.

MotorHead

Doesn't sound too good, I feel for you. I do recall that Crane does have a single spring that is made out tool steel that is good for close to .600 lift and a seat pressure of 350 lbs.

Fevre

The biggest problem you are going to have is that you only have 60, maybe 90, days from the charge date to dispute it. Probably why you did not recieve them for 12 weeks. :mad

DJ Dep

QUOTE:
(they were $150 less then AFR charges).

What is it they say...you get what you pay for?
A deal is only a deal IF it is what they say it is. Warning lights should have gone off instantly when you saw $150 less that the original. Where did they cut corners to save $150? Sounds like machining wasn't done and correct parts were left off. Now you have to hassle even more with returning these heads and buying another set. Hope you get your money back. If not....you learned a dang expensive lesson.

Dep

71roadster

Dep,
thanks for...whatever. I know to be careful when looking at a deal and that is why I asked very specific questions before I purchased. And $150 on $1250 is only about %10 saving. Surely AFR is cleaning up on these as they charge $400 to $250 more than most other head companies, who now appear to be raising hteir prices to be in line with AFR. Also, I often find components can be purchased from distributers for much less then they can the manufacturer. I just received a Canton oil pan (that was drop shipped from Canton) from a web based company for just over half what Canton was asking.

Advice is appreciated. Rubbing my nose in being ripped off by an unscrupulous vendor is not.


[Modified by 71roadster, 2:23 PM 12/13/2002]

page62

I may be repeating this, but no matter what happens you MUST call your credit card vendor NOW! This may have gone beyond the dispute stage and may get kicked upstairs to the Risk Management (Fraud) department at the bank. In any case, time is of the essence. :eek:

Frankenvette

71roadster is right about sometimes buying items for less from a distributor than the manufacturer. I've been in medical sales for a long time and depending on the product we somtimes support our distributors by giving them a better price than our direct customers. This ensures a distribution channel outside of direct sales. Sorry to hear about your problem. Thank goodness you used a credit card and not a check or money order. Good reminder to all of use to use a credit card whenever possible for this sort of protection.

Jim

SmokedTires

:nonod: Man that really sux ! I've been buying a lot off the internet lately for my engine buildup. I too ask many questions before the purchase. We have to hope that the people on the other end are respectible with their dealings. This guy sounds total :bs . Hopefully things will work out.

PS I'm thinking of using a Canton pan & would appreciate knowing where you bought yours from. You can e-mail me at smokedtires@aol.com :cheers:

JoeC427

:cry :cry SOB's, call your credit card company and send them back.
Good luck man,

DJ Dep

71roadster: don't be so sensitive. You sound like a little girl. I didn't offer you sympathy or a crying towel because I assumed you were an adult.
Do as these guys suggest and get hold of your credit card company. It may be too late but it's worth a shot. Any time you get a "deal" by whatever means and whatever savings, it is ALWAYS a buyer beware situation. Especially when you are dealing with out of state unknown quantities. You gambled and maybe you have lost. LEARN something from your errors.
Or keep doing the same thing over and over again. The choice is yours.

Dep