T5Mika

I have been checking out low mileage C5 asking prices lately and they seem really high. I paid $17 for my pristine '01 vert (38k miles) in a private party deal two and half years ago, and the price was very fair to both parties. Now the asking prices seem to be generally 20k or higher for late '90s verts with similar miles.

So I priced my car at Edmunds and KBB. Edmunds appraises $14000, and KBB $23k (!), private party. KBB has always been inflated, but come on!

Are people really paying over 20k for 11+ year old verts? It's not made of gold bullion...

s'noJob

Don't forget to also check NADA. And I think CarMax might have one, too.
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T5Mika

NADA gives $18k trade in and $21 retail. The mileage adjustment is huge, over five thousand.

Down

Having just came off researching all of this (I just bought my first C5Z about a month ago), I think the NADA is probably the best barometer. I know it's what most credit unions use to asses loan value, so there's probably something to that. NADA was very close to what I paid for mine (at a dealer) and I felt like both parties came out OK.

T5Mika

Well, I guess that's good news if I need to trade the car in. I could actual make a little profit

cor28vettes

I'd write off the Dealer Association. The source is the association of dealers. Kinda like an association of lawyers or politicians haha
The ones that like to use it is the tax man.

Back to KBB vs Edmunds...
Yeah its a phenomenal to have a 10K spread such as in the case of the 03/04 Z06, which I seem to check the most. Or, as you pointed out, to have a higher asking price now, than 2 1/2 yrs ago and for an older model at that.

I started looking into C5 way back in 06 when I found this forum. I started tracking mileage, prices, certain models & years religiously. Still got all that data.

This ad was in the local paper after it failed to sell in the autotrader for a few K more...

June 27, 2007 - '03 Z06 Immaculate, TR, 13,000 miles, Garage kept, Under warranty, Original owner, Non-smoker, $30,000

Now, over 5 years later, that (asking) price is still the same on 03Z's with 13K miles. Ironic that KBB, now owned by autotrader, predicted a few yrs ago that Vettes, and 9 other car manufacturer models, would retain 50% value after 5 yrs. Well they were off by 5 years cause it's been 10 yrs since that 03 came out and 50% of MSRP 52,090 is 26,045

So let's see what KBB now says abt that same 03Z @ 13K...
I just checked and it says 27,570 in my Zip code Private Party Sale

And now for Edmunds...
Says 17,463 in Outstanding Condition Private Party Sale

Sounds like two politicians don't it? Both claiming to be right.

Logic tells me used cars are supposed to depreciate, especially after for 5 long azz years. My conclusion is that Edmunds is right on top of where they should be at this point but KBB is right on top where the asking price market appears to be. Over the years the consensus on the forum has been that Edmunds has the closest to real world pricing. But you decide.

Is it inflation? Is it the C6 ever increasing MSRP that affect used car price in turn? Is it plummeting sales of the late new C6 models that drive up prices of used Vettes? Is it sellers looking at autotrader asking prices and saying I'll join the crowd? Is it private party sellers that look at dealer prices and say I can do better than them?

Is the used car market in a bubble, and about to burst with you holding the bag? Will it change next year when C5's become two generations removed? Are "Consumers still strapped and hurting" as Economist & Editor in Chief of Business Insider claims?

I can only speculate but I go back to Edmunds for the reality check on where it's supposed to be had the asking market not returned to 5 yrs ago. Of course as a seller I'd say to Edmunds...what????

My 2 cents on a purchase right now would be to say this...

No buyer wants to think he paid too much and no seller wants to think he sold out.

The most reasonable and fair solution to the dilema is to compromise. Be prepared to negotiate. In negotiations, everyone wants to feel like they were in control and that they prevailed.

So how would one reconcile the 10K difference KBB to Edmunds?

KISS is the answer (Keep it simple stupid). Meet your party half way!
Take it or leave it rarely meets high 5's.

racebum

kbb private party is where dealers often make sales. it's a nice perk to say they are selling under retail. in fact large volume dealers like www.rtgt.com put kbb private for their asking price on a lot of cars and wiggle down from there.

ebay no reserve auctions are probably your best bet to see what top dollar really is. people from all over bid on the cars and the closes are often pretty strong. last c5 i watched was an 01 z06 with a clean carfax and 40k miles go for 17k flat. verts & z06's always do well on ebay.

as for edmunds. i ran a tmv on a 2004 {65k miles} coupe i considered looking at. they had it at 19k obo and edmunds tmv in clean condition with all the perks was 15.5k dealer retail

car was all stock and i traced out my strategy and wound up not calling. my game plan was to offer 15k as good condition, see if they counter me in some way. come up to 15.5k which was clean and offer 300 extra for the borla cat back making it a 15.8k-16k offer.

i then thought about it and a 2006 with the same mileage in good condition would go around 22k

the extra 5-6k for the c6 is worth it

and that's if they would have even agreed to 15.5-16k. never really know till you start talking. i just thought it out and even if they would have went for it....for the extra few grand i get a more modern car. 50 more hp. 100lbs less weight, parts support for the next decade, better resale in 8 years. whole list of perks for that extra cash

oddly enough that 2001 z06 i mentioned with 40k only edmunds out at 15k

jimb100

2-3 years ago the market was depressed.

Fabulous deals were everywhere.

Now, not so much.

I wouldn't go by what you could get back then.

Here in Florida, Edmunds is often lower than the auctions for Corvettes. At least it was in the spring. Now that prime time is over, prices should start dropping again, at least a grand or two.

Down

FWIW,
If KBB is $27,570 and Edmunds is $17,463, that would put the midpoint at $22,516.50. While I don't know your zip code, I just looked this vehicle up in NADA and it listed a clean trade in as $22,575, just over $50 off that midpoint.

I'll stand by my assertion that NADA seems to be a relatively decent point to work from.

Ronnie wilkins

I think dealers use the KBB to sell them and Edmunds to buy them. That way they can show you the book says it is worth 14k and I will give u 14.5 making it look like he is doing you a favor. Then when he sells he uses KBB and says it books at 21K but for you I will sell for 20K. I once asked a dealer one time how come everything I got ain't worth s--- and yours is worth a fortune? He laughed and said he had to pay the bills. I can see that to an extent but so do I.

s'noJob

It would seem that one way to obtain a guestimated value closest to reality is to watch eBay. That way you can see, no make that watch the values of vehicles as and when they sell - in real time.

Of course, eBay won't tell you what your car is worth, or what you can expect to collect if you're selling, all based on one eBay sale in one zip code.

But if you have the time, you could watch several eBay transactions over a year's time (for seasonal variations - they might be high during the Christmas season!) and then you can get an impression of what a car may be worth.

Can anyone think of a reason why eBay would not be the place to look while researching the value of a certain vehicle?

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racebum

i'm not sure what the deal is with a lot of those cars or why the sellers advertise them so high and wonder why no one is buying.

T5Mika

I think my point, if any, was that the companies in appraising business should do the leg work for me. But having a ten-k spread means the appraisals are worthless. Edmunds TMV has been very realistic with sedans and SUVs that I have been buying or selling, but it does not seem to be where the market is now for Corvettes. It's not an issue of burning urgency for me, but I get tire kickers all the time and I might want to get a C6 at some point.

Tech

Wow.. Edmunds is a joke. An 06 Z06 with 15k miles on it is $33,000 dealer retail. They are selling for nearly 10k more than that from private parties.

Nada said $44k
KBB said $43k (excellent)

cor28vettes

33+10=43 for your 06 15K miles

Member FrankTank paid 42 for a 07Z 12k 2 years ago
I could dig up more

RJRSW

I have bought around 25 vettes in every generation from C1-C6 and have found that when selling them that the highest offer you are going to get on a car comes in the first 7-10 days after you list it. If you list it too high it tends to stay for sale for a very long time and if you price it fairly it sells in less than a week.

I use Edmunds both to buy and sell and the last few vettes I have bought were all very nice original owner loaded mint condition cars and all were bought at Edmunds trade in values. I base what I ask for a car on Edmund's private party and base what I offer on their trade in value.

KBB is owned by Autotrader and appears to get it's values based on what the asking prices they see rather than selling prices. NADA is owned by the Automobile Dealers Association and both KBB and NADA are beholding to dealers needs and are used to justify what a dealer is asking and have little to do with actual real world sales prices.

If you notice dealers always seem to be bragging about how many thousands below KBB their car is priced at. There was a large new car dealer here in Tucson that a little while back advertised that every used car they had in stock was priced at $5,000 under KBB, so much for realistic values on KBB.

racebum

absolutely agree with this

and will also add that it's not corvette specific. i've found that cars in general all do this

and you're 100% right on the dealers. around here "selling at private party book" is something i have seen more than one dealer advertise. thousands under retail

it's all marketing

on the flip side edmunds can be low with some cars. i ran a 2001 z06 with something like 50-60k and came up wiith 12.5k private party

anyone with a clean non salvage 01z around oregon, if you want 12.5k we can make a deal, cash is in my account

s'noJob

When you say "the appraisals are worthless," do you mean ALL appraisals, or only the one that was ten grand higher than everyone else?

No two appraisals will be identical of course, but if one is waaaaay out of the pack, then that's the one I would find questionable. However, if the remaining are within a reasonable range, I'd say there's still value in them.

I wonder how CarMax gets their "no haggle" prices.
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racebum

from what people have said. carmax offers are a lot more in line with edmunds than the other 2

i still think it's kind of lulzy that some owners can actually make comments about "these cars crashing" and whatnot.

find me another car that sold for 40k in 2000 that people still want 12k today. low production cars like the supra aside i sure can't think of many. i know a 2000 4runner in great condition might fetch 5-6k

only one i can think of that's close and not a low production car is the s2000

Tech

I'm not sure what your point is here. Are you saying that 43k is too much? There were two similar cars in St. Louis that sold on this forum, in the past couple of weeks, for around $43k (private party, obviously).