TTop Tony

I think I already know the answer to this question. But I am going to replace my 4 speed richmond this winter and I thought I'd ask if the 5 speed richmond is a bolt in replacement for it. I've seen a lot of posts on this but there mostly auto to manual switches. I'm not a fabricator so if its not a bolt in I can't really do it. Also can anyone suggest a ratio for me. I have a 3.08 rear end and summit has 4 diiferent 4 speeds. One with a 2.4 first, two with a 2.6 and 1 with a 2.8. I really don't know that much about transmissions so I don't know which one would compliment my 3.08 rear gear.

Flareside

The Richmond 5-speed is almost a bolt-in. You do have to modify the trans mount bracket (cut and drill it) to fit the Richmond. I bought a used bracket for $25 to modify so I can keep my original. It's pretty simple. No welding, etc. is required.

The 3.08 would be great with the 5-speed. It's a little low for any of the 4-speeds. You really want something like a 3.55 with a 4-speed for good acceleration.

-Joe

TTop Tony

The cut bothers me more then the drill. Was your switch a 4 speed to a 5 speed? I'd feel a bit more comfortable if I can see it. Is there anywhere online I can see how thats done? Is there instructions included?

Flareside

I have documentation at home in a PDF file. I'll send it to you tonight. I'd imagine you could cut the bracket with just about anything, including hand tools if you had to. It's nothing to prevent you from installing the trans.

-Joe


[Modified by Flareside, 9:29 AM 2/7/2002]

Noel Carboni

Tony,

I know it's much more expensive, but if you're going to swap trannies, give the Richmond 6 speed a thought. Overdrive is nice.

That said, I drove a Doug Nash 5 speed (the design predecessor to the Richmond 5 speed) for over 100,000 miles (I replaced some bearings once). It's a good, solid unit with excellent ratios for a 'Vette. I used mine with a 2.87 rear.

I don't have the specifics for you on what you'll need to do to convert from a 4 speed. I converted from a 700R4 automatic.

-Noel

TTop Tony

Thanks I'd love to see it. I'd just hate to fork up the money for a new 4 speed if I can get a five. Specially with the 3.08 rear end. The reason why I thought it would be tough is a friend of mine has a 63 and they had to do some things not listed in the instructions to get it to fit. I didn't know if my '75 was any different then the 63's.

TTop Tony

Noel,
I've never heard of a Doug Nash 5 speed. Is that the stock Vette tranny before the 6 speed sometimes called a 4+3 or is that different? I don't drive my car every day so I don't really need the overdrive of a 6 speed.

tsw71

The Doug Nash is the same as the Richmond. Doug Nash went out of business and Richmond took over.

TTop Tony

Sort of like the Borg Warner and Richmond thing.

427TRI

Joe, ( Flareside) are there any of those 5 speed road race boxes left?

TTop, Joe and a few of us hooked up with a sale of slightly used Richie road race boxes from G-Force Transmission in Annadale, PA. THe road race boxes are better than the street units, full roller bearing, thicker gearset, much better synchros. They have a 3.04 1st not the std 3.27, but as with all Richmond 5's swapping gears is easy.

I would imagine the 6 spped is a real clusterfutz to install, while the 5 is easy.

TTop Tony

There just happens to be another post out right now about the 6 speed and it seems to be a lot more complicated.

Flareside

Not sure Gene. I actually posted the G-force info here way back when, so I'm probably responsible for the sellout. I think we have more than Team Chevelle does! :blueangel: Sorry...

Somobody should probably check with them on availability. You just can't beat that deal!

69L71

Here's the link to the other thread:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=232592

From what I've been able to determine from discussing this issue here and taking LOTS of measurements on my 69 convertible, is that either the 5-speed or 6-speed will fit in a C3 with minimal mods. The trans mount bracket that bolts to the crossmember and supports the 4-speed will need to be cut and modified. The mods are simple and the bracket is a $25 throw away. You can easily replace the bracket and reinstall a 4-speed down the road if you choose. The speedo cable bolts right up but you'll need a Turbo 400 or 71-later trans yoke. Some minor trimming around the trans hum opening might be required. All these things are really pretty minor considering its not an OEM installation and you get LOTS of benefits. Especially if you already have the 3.08!

The PITA is going to be installation. With the engine installed both of these transmissions are going to be next to impossible to install. Hell, I just pulled the M20 out of my 71 last week and IT barely clears! Supposedly you can remove the tailhousing of the 5-speed and install it after you get the trans hooked to the motor. There's no way you can do that with the 6-speed. You might want to make life easier for yourself and pull the engine/trans as a unit and reinstall with the Richmond of your choice.

Some guys cut out the center of the crossmember and mod it to be removeable. Other folks are lucky with the removeable automatic crossmember already. I don't want to mod my frame or crossmember yet it looks like either trans will fit. Clearances are tight on the 6-speed and they're better on the 5-speed. Both are larger transmissions than the stock Muncie or BW.

TTop Tony

Theres a ton of great info here and I'm warming up to this 5 speed swap now. Luckily my engine will be out when I swap trannies and that sounds like it will make the swap easier for a novice like me.

Noel Carboni

Not particularly true. I've done it quite a number of times. Of course, this assumes you can unbolt your crossmember and drop it and the exhaust. After that, get the driveshaft off, tilt the engine down slightly, undo the bolts, and slide that sucker right out. This photo might give some idea...



More pitcures at: http://home.att.net/~ncarboni/TrannySwap.html
One of these days I'll get the text updated.

-Noel

Flareside

Here's the PDF for anyone that wants it. Credit for the artwork goes to tsw71!
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~kay...nd_install.pdf

-Joe

LT1driver

get the 2.8 first gear if you buy as it will give good torque multiplication with the 3.08 rear gear for good accel. :cheers:

Jon69L46

Thanks......

TTop Tony

Thanks Flareside.

Noel Carboni

Options for 1st gear in a Richmond 6 speed run from 4.42:1 to 2.00:1. It is possible the 5 speed has similar options, insofar as the basic design is the closely related. On the 6 speed, 3.28:1 is the "standard" configuration (e.g., as sold by Summit/Jegs). Here's the whole ratio chart, from the Richmond manual:




I have the "standard" 3.28 1st and 0.76 6th. From my own experience, I can say a 3.28 1st works very well indeed with a 2.87 rear. It's a joy to drive. ;)

-Noel