garagedweller2

What's this good for? What engines have these traits? I am thinking SBs (Z/28) and Honda S2000, 800, 600, 500, 360. Does this mean that 4:1 and faster rear ends are necessary? :confused:

garagedweller2

Found out using a :eek: mustang monthly mag!!! Circle Track cars supposedly need high end power.


[Modified by garagedweller2, 5:04 AM 1/23/2002]

Shark Racer

High-end's good for any kind of cornering situation, allows you to maintain a level of speed through a corner and accelerate out quickly.
-Steve

SteveG75

HP = Torque x RPM / 5252

The curves cross at 5252 rpm of course. :cool:

This why Honda guys get excited because 100 ftlbs of torque at 8000 rpm is 152 HP. Contrast to our V8's that make say 150 hp at 2000 rpm which is actually almost 400 ft lbs of torque.

Most small displacement motors generally have to be revved high to get good numbers. 302 Z28 motor had short stroke 3" so it was very rev happy. In contrast, 383 strokers have 3.75" stroke and build lots of torque. Torque rules on the street.

VegasJen

anybody want to jump in and correct me feel free. as it was described to me torque is a measurement of force applied. meaning in simple terms--leverage applied to the throw of the crankshaft by the piston via the rod. the longer the distance from the centerline of the crank to the centerline of the crank throw (where the rod attatches) is like a lever. as such, more distance means more leverage. however, there is a trade-off, more leverage reduces the amount of revolutions the engine can stand before :U it's guts. the reciprocating mass (when the piston goes up, then comes to a complete stop, then goes down and comes to a complete stop and goes back up again....) can only stand these forces to a certain extent before the simulated force overcomes the strength of the materials used. engines, such as turbines, aren't governed by the same rules. that is why many turbine engines are capable of turning tens of thousands of revolutions before the centrifugal force rips them apart.
horsepower is a function of inertia plus frequency of force applied. meaning generally, and this is the theory by which most small displacement engines function, decrease the amount of leverage to increase maximum sustainable revolutions. increased revolutions and inertia will produce the power required to acheive the force needed. whew! that was long winded and i don't know if it was very clear.
basically, compare it to riding a 10 speed bicycle. in low gear, you are simulating a very large fulcrum on the centerline of your wheel, increasing the force applied. once you get rolling and shift into higher gears you effectively shorten the leverage and increase the amount of revolutions you are capable of applying to your wheel. increasing the revolutions in addition to the resistance of the wheel slowing down (once and object is in motion, it tends to stay in motion) the wheel requires less effort to speed up then it did when you were at a stop. theoretically, in a car or on a 10 speed if you could take away wind resistance and rolling friction, the only thing governing top speed would be the amount of revolutions that could be turned before the engine could no longer take the reciprocating forces or your legs couldn't peddle any faster.

Jazn74

From what I know (basically watching "The Fast and the Furious" cause that is what real life is like :rolleyes: ) all you need is a four-banger and NOS. All that other crap about low-end and high-end is for the birds. Get a 4-banger, get a NOS outfit and the sky is the limit.
PS I'm being sarcastic. Torque will always rule, get the broadest torque curve possible.

norvalwilhelm

In the Movie The fast and the furious they also used turbo's, None of the cars ran just nitrous. I saw a drag race on TV between the Japanese 4 bangers and american muscle. It was a shot out between about 10 cars in each group and the american muscle got it's butt kicked by these 10 second rice burners. I am not putting down american muscle but watch out, someday one of these rice burners is going to burn you.

Jazn74

That's what I'm saying Norval. The fast and the furious is the way to go!!!! I'm with you dude.
American Muscle usually doesn't need a supercharger or NOS. Not that there is anything wrong with those things. Plus Rice-burners look so much better, don't you think Norval?
What if you put a supercharger or NOS on an American Musclecar? HMMMMM....must think. Aw who cares, the fast and the furious is what it's all about.

SuperFast80

Norv, I don't know what's going on in Waterloo but in Toronto - the rice capital of Canada - NOBODY is running 10s/11s on the street rice or American. HOWEVER, 12s/13s Vettes, Z28s, TAs, etc., are all over the place and other than infrequent sightings of Supra Ts, RX7s, 300ZXs and Stealths, there is no such thing as a fast Japanese car.

Those above mentioned were Corvette competitors and good ones at that. Anybody who is running 10s in a Civic (1) spent WAY too much (2) is as rare on the street as a 3 legged hooker and (3) is a race car builder not a simple auto enthusiast. :nono:

MotorHead

I believe I saw the same drag race and the 600 HP Civic's were pretty impressive with slicks on the front doing burnouts until the guys fender fell off.

Those cars have to be good for at least 100 miles before a rebuild :D

Edzred72

In the movie Fast and Furious, some ricers had $10K invested in their motors. Just imagine what 10K would put under the hood of an american muscle car!
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: WOW! :cheers:

terryrudy

You got that right. I was recently at an impasse. I was going to upgrade my daily driver Eclipse GST to be a low 12 second ride. I had the big turbo already (cost is $800 for ported Big-16g turbo). But the rest of the bits is what got me. I needed bigger injectors ($450), a fuel computer ($300), a bigger fuel pump ($150), and a bigger intercooler ($1000). Then of course to handle the extra power (already have a race clutch) is a Quaife Limited Slip Differential (another $1000). And of course I would want to upgrade my suspension (coilover susp is $1000). And course all I have spent so far on it with big exhaust/intake/etc etc etc. I am now selling the turbo and will just put the money in the Vette as my Eclipse would still be FWD and I then would be stuck with two marginal daily-drivers. :)
-terry

bence13_33

Jazn74:
If you would like to find the answer to that question....wait a few months. Check out Steve's Merlin Project (dual blown 522 big block). I am inclined to say that it should be able to handle mostly any car on the street provided traction is there. Monty is another person you need to look at. He is putting a twin turbo setup on his small block Chevy.

Once turbos, superchargers and NOS (or as the ricers call it Naus :rolleyes: ) are introduced...the sky is pretty much the limit.

With that being said....give me a good ole' American made V8 any day of the week. :flag

Jazn74

Bence
That was my point. Once you go to supercharger, turbo, NOS on a V8, you are going to see huge amounts of horsepower, so much so that the frame may need to be strengthened. Standing alone (by standing alone I am implying that any mods are ok as long as they aren't a supercharger, turbo or NOS), you can get a muscle car (an eight cylinder engine) to achieve high levels of torque and HP without getting a supercharger, turbo or NOS. That and the engine has a greater amount of durability, PLUS our cars appreciate, while theirs depreciate. It's a fad, pretty soon, with the economy the way it is, mommy and daddy are going to get tired of shelling out 5-10K so junior can get a fly 10 second ride and blow it up two weeks later.
That's my rant for the day, more to come tomorrow.
I think muscle cars are a great investment and have a lot of character....
Rice cars are just plastically fantastic and that's all.



[Modified by Jazn74, 3:32 PM 1/24/2002]

427V8

Most people don't run torbos on V8's because they don't have to!

And if you drag race, turbos are very restricted to what class they can run in...more so than blowers.

Merlin522

Bence. Keith. I couldn't have said it any better. You guys rock! :cheers:

WashingtonRacer

Merlin, I recently went up to Honest Performance in Fed Way to get my heads o-ringed, and I could not believe my eyes as to what I saw in the back. Your car looks even more amazing in person. But I have to ask, where did you get those wheels? they are hypnotizing. Anyways I currently am running some puny 15x10.5 in the back in 15x8.5 in the front. I am dying to find some nice 17's at a decent price.

Merlin522

HRE http://hrewheels.com/ The rears had to be custom made. 19X14. Fronts are 19X10. Ridiculous price, but I had no choice. No one else could provide a rim that would fit our cars & still allow use of the 345 tire. Fikse said they could have also made them, but I don't like the look of their rims. There's lots of good info in the C-3 section about 17's. Check with some of the other people about what they are running. I'm sure you can get some 17's at a reasonable price..

boredsoIstrokedit

Bottom line, there is no replacement for displacement. The larger it is, give enough money to make it strong enough, the more power it can produce. :cool:

Merlin522

With enough time & money, I could make a riding lawn mower pretty competitive. Will a rice-mobile ever be able to produce the power of my car AND live on the street for any length of time. No. My motto has always been to use the bigger blocks, detune them for the street & then they will be pretty dependable. You also don't need to rev them much to develop power, so the gas mileage isn't that horrible if you take it easy. Anyone who makes comments about power based on something they saw in a movie, should really get out of the house more. There's a whole world out there to see...