Dalannex

Once I get started spraying my primer sealer there's no turning back. Here's my plan. I am going to wet the floor, then wipe the car down with wax and grease remover. Then I will mix my paint, and put on my suit and respirator. Then I will spray a couple of coats of the DP sealer, then wait around a half our or so while I clean my gun up. Then I will mix up my K36 and give it a couple of coats, then let it sit. I will have some sanding to do after that, but the plan is to put the base and clear on Tuesday Morning.

Does this sound reasonable to everyone? Is 3 or 4 coats of base and about 5 of clear going to be enough?


Justin

lars

Justin -
Sounds pretty ambitious!! With the K36 on the car, you're going to want to shoot a guide coat on it shortly after it tack dries. You're then going to be block sanding out the entire car using your long 16" board to get a perfect, ripple-free surface using 150 grit at first. Once the guide coat has been removed with the 150, you're going to have a few cut-through spots in your high areas. You will probably find that you're going to want to shoot one more coat of K36 on the car after you've blocked it out. This final coat of K36 is the coat that you'll then wet sand with the 600 (using a guide coat again).

When you shoot the DP, note how it shoots and covers. DP shoots a lot like the base and clear - it has about the same consistency. Shooting DP is good practice for the "real thing." K36 shoots like mud, and is not representative of shooting "real" paint. You may find that you'll want to reduce the K36 down a little more than recommended in order to get it to blow through your gun and lay down nice. Give me a call if you need help.

74-Roadster

Good luck!!!!!

Sounds like a plan. The only advice I have is if in the process, you find an area or two that needs a little work, door jambs etc. stop and make it right! You've come so far, painting is the easy part, getting your car 100% ready for paint is the hard part. Just think how you'll feel down the road when people look over your car and can't find one flaw!!!! Show car or not, a flawless paint job will always be worth the time, especially if your planning on keeping the car a long time.

Your number of planned coats should be fine, just depends on how much color sanding you want to do and how much you want to sand the clear. When you here about show cars with 30 coats of clear, 20 coats were probably wet sanded off. . . lots of labor but the more elbow grease, the better the surface will look! Perfectly flat and clear with depth looks pretty awesome!

Keep us posted!


You can remind me about what I told you when I get ready to paint my car (years from now)! :cheers:

Dalannex

OK guys, I think I may have a problem. The paint guy that sold me the paint (and runs a body shop on the side) didn't get me any reducer. He said if it needs reducing to do it with acetone, but just enough to get it through the gun. Is this correct? And, is there a time limit between primer surfacer shooting and basecoat shooting? Can I shoot the sealer and surfacer tommorrow, and the base and clear next weekend?

Paul 75 L82

Dalannex, you're doing every thing right. Lars guided me thru the same process. The only important thing your forgot is sitting back with a long neck Icehouse with the Allman Bros on the player feeling great because you just finished primimg your baby.

TerryN68

Good luck Justin!

I've been following your posts and am anxiously awaiting the outcome.

I'm gonna start shooting next weekend.

Terry

Dalannex

Thanks guys. I think the spraying will go alright, I'm just a little nervous about the mixing bit. I don't want to screw something up.

lars

No reducer, eh? You definately need to buy a gallon of reducer. Both the DP and the K36 use the same reducer: DT870.

Here is the text right out of the PPG Product Information Sheet for K36:
"For maximum performance, treat areas with the appropriate PPG cleaning systems, and apply DP Epoxy Primer. Allow DP Epoxy Primer to dry 30 minutes when using DP402 Fast Catalyst and 1 hour when using DP401 Catalyst before applying K36.
"Mix K36 Primer Surfacer in a ratio of 5 parts K36; 1 part DT870 Reducer; 1 part K201. Stir thoroughly.
"Apply 2-3 wet coats using 50 pounds air pressure at the gun with 15 minutes dry time between coats.
"Pot life is 2 hours
"When using DELTRON (DAU) colors, K35 surface may be sealed with DP epoxy primer before topcoating. This will provide the best gloss and color uniformity."

Now, for the DP, the PPG info states:
"Used as a primer, blend two parts DPXXLF Primer to one part DP401LF or DP402LF (Fast).
"Apply 1 to 2 wet coats. Allow 10 to 15 minutes dry time between coats.
"NOTE: DP Epoxy Primer may be recoated any time up to 1 week. After 1 week, it must be claned with either DX330 or DX380, trhen scuffed with a medium/fine ScothBrite or sandpaper. Reclean with DX220, DX330, or DX380 before applying additional primer surfacers or topcoat colors.
"Used as a sealer, mix DP Epoxy Primerwith DP Catalyst and DT870 in a 2:1:1/2 ratio. Apply 1 wet coat. Allow DP/DP402 Sealer to dry 15 minutes minumum before applying topcoat. Allow DP/DP401 Sealer to dry 30 minutes minumum before applying topcoat."

As you see, you need the DT870. Don't take a shortcut now and start substituting cheap thinners instead of the PPG-Recommended stuff. Contact me if you need more info. The above statements are extracts out of the data sheets - not all the data. Theres' lots more info where that came from...

lars

Justin -
For mixing, I take a paint stick (you get the for free form your paint supplier) and I make lines on the stick every 1/4". Then, I take a hack-saw blade and score the stick at each 1/4" line so the stick becomes "engraved." I make a short mark and a long mark alternately.
This then becomes my mixing stick. Need to mix up some stuff in an 8:6:1 ratio? Just count up 8 lines, 6 lines, and one line. Need half as much? Do it in 1/2-line increments. You get the idea. Once done mixing, wipe the stick off with a paper towel, and it's ready for use again. Piece of cake. Wear gloves to keep the crap off your hands, and watch your eyes with splatter.... I wear safety glasses.

Dalannex

Well, that's it for painting this week. :mad I told that stupid b@#$ard that I needed the reducer too. Sometimes you just can't win. I guess I'll have to try again next weekend.

Dalannex

Thanks for the tip on the paint stick and all the information. How much paint does it take to put one coat on a vette anyway? The DP48 is what I'm talking about. I was just wondering so I know kind of how much to mix.

You know it really bites that I can't even get any reducer tommorrow because it's Sunday and nothing's open. How frustrating.

LAvetteman

Shucks man, well now you know, you definetly need reducer. DP 48 is the sealer right? I used 3/4's of the quart. You are taking alot more precautions then I did, your outcome should be great. My advice, learn all you can about the gun when you apply the sealer. I used a different gun for my base and clear than I did for the sealer and I screwed up the base. HVLP guns are wierd. I have been advised not to use them at all on the clear. The night before you may be nervous. I was, I stayed up till 5:00 am the morning I shot mine, sanding the K-36. Slept till 9:30 and I was fatigued. Don't do that.

CF6873

Justin; Did you say 5 Coats of clear? How much did you buy 2 gallons? I'm in the paint business and I have never heard of anyone using 5 coats of urethane clear.Three coats of base and three coats of clear should be plenty. One other thing, It's not always good to set a date to paint because it's easy to want to shortcut a step to be ready for that day. The best thing I have found is to work on it as long as it takes to make it right and then paint, even if it is a week or two later. Good Luck, You'll do fine. Craig :chevy

Larry B.

I used three coats of color to cover and two coats of clear. I was able to wet sand the clear without going through and then buff without any problem. Urethane is pretty thick material so five coats of clear may be excessive. Too much paint thickness causes cracking and peeling. More is not always better. :eek:

454Big

Good luck, Justin!

I´m definitely no paint prep expert, so I need info myself!
Keep us posted on your efforts and especially the result!

Dalannex

So 3 base and 3 clear should be enough, huh? That sounds good to me. Thanks.

mark79,80

Was wondering how you are heating and ventilating the area you are
painting?
I have a heated garage (24x34) with a 55000 BTU sealed combustion gas heater.
When painting I open one window some to let in fresh air and place a
box fan in the opposite window to push out the paint overspray. This
works for panel painting, but not very well for entire car painting as over
time the heater cannot put out as much heat as is lost. I use HVLP guns
to minimize overspray. So have resigned myself to only do complete
car painting in the warmer months where no heat is needed.
Would be interested in knowing a way to paint in the winter without investing
in a spray booth.

Are you using a fresh air respirator? I don't have one and wear a charcoal
filter mask but have read that this is not addequate with the newer paints.

lars

Justin -
First, on the DP epoxy:
Are you shooting DP48 or DP48LF? The new "Lead Free" version (LF) has a different mix ratio - make sure you mix it correctly. The old DP48 is mixed 1:1 epoxy and catalyst, and can then be reduced with your DT870 if you're using it as a sealer. If you're shooting it as the first layer of paint to epoxy coat the surface in preparation for the K36 and subsequent body work, shoot it straight with little or no reduction (I like to reduce it at least a little so it flows through my gun nicely). The new DP48LF epoxy is mixed 2:1 epoxy to catalyst and then reduced as you want. If you don't use the right ratio for the type of DP you're using, it will take forever to dry...

You'll be able to get a good coat of epoxy on the entire car with about 2-3 quarts of mixed product (1-2 quarts of straight DP).

On the base and clear, you want to keep your film build-up as low as possible. Thick paint is not durable, and it will easily chip. Don't shoot 5 coats of clear (besides.. with the cost of clear, it would run you bankrupt...). A tack coat followed by two wet coats is more than enough. It goes on fairly thick, so you don't have to worry about sand-through if you have 2 wet coats applied.

Dalannex

It's the DP48LF. So the paint salesman was right and I don't need to reduce it then? :confused: Do I need to reduce the K36? Where can I get some info from PPG on how to use this stuff?

lars

Justin -
If you're using the DP as a primer (the first coat of "stuff" down on the car), you do not need to reduce it except as required to get it to blow through your paint gun nicely. Mix the "LF" series 2:1 epoxy to catalyst, and then reduce it a little with the DT870 if it doesn't flow well.

If you're using the DP as a sealer (on top of the K36 just prior to basecoat color), you reduce it with the DT by 25%.

The K36 can be mixed with or without the DT reducer. It is normally mixed in a ratio 5:1:1 K36, DT reducer, and 201 hardener. I usually add a little more DT in order to get the stuff to spray better: I find that the 5:1:1 ratio makes it go on a little dry, and it doesn't flow well through the gun. So I thin it a touch more. PPG claims that you can mix it as a "fast-build" primer by deleting the DT reducer. I have not been able to get this to flow through my paint gun, and I assume a pressure pot painting system would be required to shoot the stuff when it's this thick (it's like mud when it's not reduced...).

I got the PPG tech sheets from my PPG certification training classes. If you send me a fax number, I'll be glad to fax you the stuff I have on DP and K36 (as well as some other good reading).