Hello and Help (New Engine ???'s)
01-10-2002, 01:51 AM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
Hello and Help (New Engine ???'s)
Hello all, long time reader, first post. i brought my stock '81 3 yrs. ago to just cruise, so i wasn't real worried about having a Hi Perf. vette, just liked the 80-82 look. My how that changes. Anyway, i lost compression in a cylinder over the summer and my mechanic suggested a Jasper rebuild. But now i want more performance (doesn't everyone?). So here are my questions.
1. Has anyone tried a ZZ4 in a '81? Cam to aggressive for stock computer chip? If so, will a hypertech chip cure this?
(i have heard his is not a good idea and will cause more headaches)
2. goautocenter.com has a 320 hp alum. hd. motor for around $2K. Has anyone used this? Would changing cams to a more agressive but computer friendly cam (Compucam #270-114142 from jeg's) be better for my '81? I would also add a ZZ4 intake, Shorty tubes and Dynomax Superturbos.
Emissions are not a problem (under 5k a yr. excempt in PA), but will probably keep all anyway.
I realize there are a lot of questions for one post so any help will be appreciated, And Thanks for all the previous advice over the years! :D
1. Has anyone tried a ZZ4 in a '81? Cam to aggressive for stock computer chip? If so, will a hypertech chip cure this?
(i have heard his is not a good idea and will cause more headaches)
2. goautocenter.com has a 320 hp alum. hd. motor for around $2K. Has anyone used this? Would changing cams to a more agressive but computer friendly cam (Compucam #270-114142 from jeg's) be better for my '81? I would also add a ZZ4 intake, Shorty tubes and Dynomax Superturbos.
Emissions are not a problem (under 5k a yr. excempt in PA), but will probably keep all anyway.
I realize there are a lot of questions for one post so any help will be appreciated, And Thanks for all the previous advice over the years! :D
01-10-2002, 02:35 AM
#2
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Sep 2001
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Re: Hello and Help (Steve81)
Steve,
I'm was going through the same question a coulpe of months ago. I decided against a "crate" motor, because i found compromises that i didn't care for. I'm building up an all forged 383 to MY specs, first, i can cater to my goals in terms of hp, nitrous, etc, etc. secondly, i can do things such as 6" rods, nice heads, and custom cam as well as Compression. A Crate is fine if you are happy with what you are getting out of the box... a crate and upgraded heads a year later can quickly exceed or equal the price of a custom engine. Right now i'm figuring about $3000 for the shortblock, $1K for heads, reusing some of the accessories that i already have. So slightly more than a ZZ4 i *should have a 450-500hp 383. I know chris (Chris81) has a ZZ4 he seems to like quite a bit; judging by his donuts :lol: Good luck. Shell out a bit more now, be happier later :)
I'm was going through the same question a coulpe of months ago. I decided against a "crate" motor, because i found compromises that i didn't care for. I'm building up an all forged 383 to MY specs, first, i can cater to my goals in terms of hp, nitrous, etc, etc. secondly, i can do things such as 6" rods, nice heads, and custom cam as well as Compression. A Crate is fine if you are happy with what you are getting out of the box... a crate and upgraded heads a year later can quickly exceed or equal the price of a custom engine. Right now i'm figuring about $3000 for the shortblock, $1K for heads, reusing some of the accessories that i already have. So slightly more than a ZZ4 i *should have a 450-500hp 383. I know chris (Chris81) has a ZZ4 he seems to like quite a bit; judging by his donuts :lol: Good luck. Shell out a bit more now, be happier later :)
01-10-2002, 11:26 AM
#3
Melting Slicks
Re: Hello and Help (Steve81)
1. Has anyone tried a ZZ4 in a '81? Cam to aggressive for stock computer chip? If so, will a hypertech chip cure this?
(i have heard his is not a good idea and will cause more headaches)
2. goautocenter.com has a 320 hp alum. hd. motor for around $2K. Has anyone used this? Would changing cams to a more agressive but computer friendly cam (Compucam #270-114142 from jeg's) be better for my '81?
01-10-2002, 11:42 AM
#4
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Re: Hello and Help (Intimidator454)
Check out your local newspaper classifies and/or the swap sheet. Maybe even ebay. I bought the motor in my sig from a guy on ebay. I noticed he was located about and hour and a half from my house. The engine sold for over $2000 twice on ebay, but no one wanted to pay shipping. So I emailed him and told him I'd give him $1400 cash and come get it. He thought about it for few days and decided he'd do it. The point of the story is, you can get a really good deal if you look around your local area. There's always someone who has spent a great deal of money on and engine and then later needs money and has to sell it at a loss. I've seen several good deals in the classifieds as well. Just make sure you know what to look for to make sure you're not getting screwed. And remember CASH talks.
01-10-2002, 12:55 PM
#5
Re: Hello and Help (Steve81)
Fully understand the comment about getting it for cruising & then wanting more!
If a cam is fitted that is too aggresive for the ECU then I don't think a new chip will solve the problem. As far as I know the problems occur because aggresive cams lower the manifold vacuum to a point where the ECU gets confused. Crane do a series of cams that work well with the ECU (I'm hopefully fitting one this winter), but I wouldn't let the ECU affect your decision of whether to rebuild or to get a crate motor. The Confuser can easily be removed (whether you stay with the L81 or fit a crate motor) - all it does is control the mixture on the primaries, the spark timing & TCC lockup. The cost of another carb, dizzy & fitting a switch for the lockup would be fairly insignificant compared to the cost of a crate motor & all the other bits that would need changing.
There are people here who have had good results staying with the ECU & "tweaking" the motor: hopefully they'll reply to your post.
I'm just going to "upgrade" my L81 over time to give the power I want, mainly because I'll enjoy doing it, but also because the cost of shipping a crate motor over to the UK would be crippling (besides, just dropping a crate motor in would be too easy!!! :jester )
:cheers:
If a cam is fitted that is too aggresive for the ECU then I don't think a new chip will solve the problem. As far as I know the problems occur because aggresive cams lower the manifold vacuum to a point where the ECU gets confused. Crane do a series of cams that work well with the ECU (I'm hopefully fitting one this winter), but I wouldn't let the ECU affect your decision of whether to rebuild or to get a crate motor. The Confuser can easily be removed (whether you stay with the L81 or fit a crate motor) - all it does is control the mixture on the primaries, the spark timing & TCC lockup. The cost of another carb, dizzy & fitting a switch for the lockup would be fairly insignificant compared to the cost of a crate motor & all the other bits that would need changing.
There are people here who have had good results staying with the ECU & "tweaking" the motor: hopefully they'll reply to your post.
I'm just going to "upgrade" my L81 over time to give the power I want, mainly because I'll enjoy doing it, but also because the cost of shipping a crate motor over to the UK would be crippling (besides, just dropping a crate motor in would be too easy!!! :jester )
:cheers:
01-10-2002, 01:44 PM
#6
Burning Brakes
Re: Hello and Help (Steve81)
Steve,
GM has an emissions legal conversion option that comes with the ZZ4 that will allow the 1983-8? Camaros to install the ZZ4 engine. They use the orignal computer carb (same as ours) with richer secondary rods, upgrade the chip, convert to dual cats, dual snorkel, and a few minor additions. With this in mind I'm sure it can be done to our 81's as well with a simple secondary rod change and an aftermarket chip. One of the magazines did an article on the swap, and I think it ended up with 308HP at the flywheel and ran mid 13sec. 1/4mi times. The new ZZ4 engine is 10HP better now than when that article was written, and I believe much higher torque. With the right gears, traction, and exhaust you might be in the high 12s.
Mark
[Modified by 81vette, 11:47 AM 1/10/2002]
GM has an emissions legal conversion option that comes with the ZZ4 that will allow the 1983-8? Camaros to install the ZZ4 engine. They use the orignal computer carb (same as ours) with richer secondary rods, upgrade the chip, convert to dual cats, dual snorkel, and a few minor additions. With this in mind I'm sure it can be done to our 81's as well with a simple secondary rod change and an aftermarket chip. One of the magazines did an article on the swap, and I think it ended up with 308HP at the flywheel and ran mid 13sec. 1/4mi times. The new ZZ4 engine is 10HP better now than when that article was written, and I believe much higher torque. With the right gears, traction, and exhaust you might be in the high 12s.
Mark
[Modified by 81vette, 11:47 AM 1/10/2002]