Lohkay

Ok...I'm in a frame off project. My intention is to turn this car into a monster....much like merlin did...or tried to do... and thats where my dilemna comes in. As you all know, he seems to have given up on the project and I would've done the same...he spent what...100k? and doesn't have a car...sheesh.

Anyway since the body is off, I'm redoing the suspension/drivetrain/frame for sure...now I have 2 choices...continue on my project, slowly one step at a time for the next 3 years. OR put the body back on, slap in a merlin block with used parts (heads, intake, carb, etc) and change those parts as the money gets in.

The 2nd choice is interesting as I'll have my wheels back on the road faster but it'll cost me more in the end. What do you guys think?

daniel77350

merlin is still going on his project. Its just slowed down due to the economy slowing as well.

As for your project, I say get it on the road asap. If you wait, you'll never know what will happen finacially or what will happen. 3 years is a long time when you can have it all back together in 1 and a half. Thats just my .02 though. I'd hate for you to be caught half stride in a project. When you can at least have a full car, but it won't be exactly what you've wanted it to be.

Daniel

Lohkay

Yeah I'm looking down that road....the reason I went with the full project at first is because I'm a perfectionnist, I don't like to put new parts in a car when I know that others are just ugly but to hard to replace....for exemple the body mounts. I wanted to start with a clean car....but now I figured that I can do that with a minimum of cash involved...clean the frame, change the suspension/drivetrain, clean the engine compartiment of the body and bolt it back on....the rest I can do with the body on the frame afterall.

daniel77350

IMO the only good the body does coming off, is for the section of the frame under the body....The rest of the frame can be painted body on. Oh and you don't have to mask off as much with the body off, but thats no big deal.

Daniel

74-Roadster

I'm afraid if you don't do what you set out to do, in 3 years, you'll be dissapointed but not willing to complete your original goal and you'll constantly wish you'd done it all first class everytime someone looks it over.

Set your goals high, build a staircase and take one step at a time and before you know it, you'll be at the top. You can eat an elephant if you close your eyes and take one bite at a time whenever your hungry.

GOOD LUCK!!!!!!!! Either way, whatever you do, do it well, don't cut corners.

70PurpleLS7

Considering after only a few months your already asking this question. Do yourself a favor redo the frame/suspension/drivetrain like you stated and drive the car. You'll enjoy it more, and quite possibly the urge to go "overboard" will quit.

Granted if you don't mind it sitting in someone's shop, shelling out massive quantities of cash to have this done , etc.. etc.. etc.. then by all means go for it.

Merlin522

Lohkay - The project is alive & well, I assure you. There have been a number of delays due to having to customize more stuff, but we're getting closer every day...

454Big

Take your time, buy another Vette and do it to perfection.
I did my car with a compromise once and didn´t like the result.
I´m in a frame off now - whatever time it takes!

When I´m finished, the car is build to my expectations and it should be perfect!!!

Just my .02 ct......

Flareside

Merlin, it's amazing how many "members" on the forum have you dead and burried, and have appointed themselves the next Merlin! Nobody's even close...

Chris Fowler

I'd have to put it back together. I couldnt' take not driving it.

Lohkay

lol flareside...I hadn't heard from merlin in a while. He came back once and then went away again...I thought he had dumped it again. Seems I'm wrong. As for being far from "merlin", I wouldn't bet on that. Ok...I agree he'll have a bigger engine than mine. I'm aiming for 800hp. But I'll have a better suspension then him. :p:

And please don't read this wrong...I'm not trying to say merlin's project is stupid..I love his project and learnt a lot from it. My project is more like the ultimate race C3.

Anyway, I'm rebuilding my old engine now...was going to sell it but I ain't sure anymore...might put it back in and drive the car while I build my new monster engine...and then when that one is in, I'll only have some body parts to change and a fresh paint.

Flareside

Lohkay, believe me, I think you're car will be something special if you follow through. It's just that Merlin has used some impressive hardware! Dual superchargers, Speed Pro ECM, Richmond trans, custom accessories and brackets, custom exhaust, heavy duty custom driveline, etc. IMO, the only other C3 guy with this type of technology (and investment!) is Monty.

I wish Merlin had an index on his page so I could find parts/information easier.(Steve, are you listening? Hint, hint...)

-Joe

Lohkay

Lol don't hold you breath...I already asked him for a list. :)

And humm...pretty much everything you listed is what I'll be getting. Except the blower. And I'm going for the AFR heads instead of the merlins. Dunno what intake he has, but mine will probably be the super victor. I have the 5spd richmond trans on my car already so I might stick with that or go all out and buy a lenco. Another big difference between his project and mine is the rear suspension...ya might laugh at this one and I'll let you laugh until I'm done and pictures are posted....I'll fit a viper suspension....so coilovers, a-arms and all the goodies. Big tires with no flares! :jester

Merlin522

Lohkay - We have nearly $30,000 into the suspension & wheels alone. Be careful before making such claims. If you can take my car in handling, then more power to you. I really don't know much about your project & I won't claim to have the absolute end all be all of cars, but if you are truly trying to best my project in both handling & power - you had better be ready to flex your wallet my friend. You're going to have to also create an entire new frame with different geometry & coil overs. You'll also have to find lower profile tires. Oh yeah, they don't make any!! You get my point. I'm all for pushing the envelope, but making claims like that at this point in your project is quite premature. Kind of like me saying my engine would be running in "2 weeks" - 9 months ago. :)

Merlin522

Flareside - I'm going to wait until the end to compile a list. It will take me weeks to list everything. If there are any specific questions I can answer, feel free to ping me..

Merlin522

Lohkay - Just read that you are planning on using a Viper rear suspension. Won't work. Totally different frame geometry. If you are going to go that far, then you should have a custom tube frame built that will match the Z06 style hardware. It will outperform a Viper & fit in better with the overall Vette philosophy. Putting a Viper suspension on a standard or slightly modified C-3 frame will not get you where you need to be. Drop me a line & we can discuss. I've spent years researching this, talking to folks like Guldstrand, Morrison - all the biggies. I can take my car one step higher, but it would require a different frame. What we have now is about as far as you can take a standard style C-3 frame - even with all the hacking & welding we've done to it. It's simply not stiff enough, not strong enough & frankly it weighs to much. If I had the project to do over, I would have used the chrome moly tube frame..

Merlin522

P.P.S. I'm using custom Grumpy Jenkins heads. About the best money can buy & the only 450+cc head on the market that uses a standard type exhaust port. All the others flowing those numbers like Dart are using raised exhaust ports which means you won't be able to use the large headers like I have which means less power. Again, the only way to rip the **** off is a different frame. The next project which I am presently starting to spec out is going to use the tube moly frame so we can implement rack & pinion and all the latest goodies. It will also provide more clearance for the engine. The block, which is already in the planning phase is a 700CI mountain motor with 475cc big chief heads & it will be turbocharged. Monty is really raising the bar. I can't let him get away with that!! :)

Lohkay

Lol merlin...I knew you'd take it personal. :) And yes you're right when saying the viper suspension won't fit on the stock C3 frame. I've looked more into it then you might think and know it to be possible w/o going with a tube frame. As for the weight, it ain't much the frame thats too heavy but the body.

Did you know that the viper has a 0.98g lateral acceleration compared to the C5's 0.93g ? I am a firm believer in coilovers and that is the main reason why I'm trying to fit it in the back.

Like you when you started your project, lots of people are suspicious of what I want to do and I fully understand. So until I have my proofs, I'll just shut up. :hat

Merlin522

I don’t take it personally per se, but those who know me will tell you I am very competitive. When someone says they are going to drop the hammer on me, dem’s fighting words! :) The body is fiberglass, so I really have to disagree with you. Our frames weigh well over 1,000 pounds. Maybe someone call tell us the true weight. Art told me a tube chrome moly frame would drop at least 500-700 pounds off the car. Think about it. That is a HUGE difference. It’s like having another engine in the thing. It would also be stronger – especially in the critical torque zones. Listen, I’m all for customizing things, but I’m just playing devil’s advocate here. Anything can be done to any car if you spend enough time & money. I just want to save you the hassle. Getting the Viper parts alone will set you back a mint. It would make more sense just to go with parts that are designed for our frame’s geometry. The wheels I am using were actually made for the Viper, but it has an 8.5” backspacing. That alone will tell you how radically different the Viper is to our cars. This 14” rim will actually fit a Viper with no flares & no overhang. .98g is also not that impressive. There are a number of customized Vipers out there running in the 1.04-1.05g range. VB&P was able to get in the high 9’s with their suspension on a 79 Vette – with crappy tires. My car will be well into the 1’s, which is why I was critical of your comment. To surpass these numbers, you will have to do even more work than we have done – not an easy feat. Look, I would love to see a C-3 brother kick my butt. That would do wonders for my motivation level. For quite some time I have been hanging out here in performance no man’s land. First there were just a few madmen like Monty, Gkull & others. Now you & Bence are ripping the **** off. I think it’s great. I am nothing but supportive, but when folks start saying “Merlin is going down”, Merlin will probably have something to say about that!! Hehehe…

Lohkay

Sorry but you won't get in the 1s with your setup. I won't either. As for the frame weight, there was a thread on this before and a guy that lifts vette frames barehand all day said they were more like 600lbs. Thats the bare frame. I ain't saying you wont lose weight by going to tube...just saying that the most weight saving can be done on the body. Those fiberglass panels are thick and heavy. I just wish I had an indutrial balance. Main reason I'm saying this is because I might have the chance to make carbon fiber panels for my project which would save way more weight than going to tube frame.

Anyway...I don't feel in competition with you. Your project is more like a model to me to base myself on. I use your project as a comparision cause its the only one that looks like mine. If someone asks me if I'll have more HP, I say no. If someone asks if I'll have more lateral acceleration, I say maybe. Both our projects are not finished and we can only throw numbers that might be far from the thruth. Lets finish them and then meet up to compare the results. :)