daniel77350

The stock core size is 26.2 X 18.5...griffin has a universal fit 26X19. Why does everyone use the taller 31X19? I realize it has more area to cool, but if stock is 26.2 X 18.5...26X19 is still bigger, and the stock radiators cool pretty well as is. I don't know...anyway, my questions

if I went with the 26X19, I don't expect I'd come in contact with many problems, aside from bracket making, and possibly needed new trans cooler hoses, and upper and lower radiator hoses. But then again, Im doing an engine detail, and those are going to be replace anyway, so no big deal...right?

What are you opinions?? If I can get the generic one for $180, and spend $70 on new hoses/brackets/etc, I should have enough for electric fans. :cool: but if I go with the $500 exact fit, I'll go broke, and actually be in the hole some, meaning stock fan/clutch crap...

Daniel

BLT-71

I would ask Dewitt. He has been real informative about the radiators from Griffin. He can give you the pros and cons in choices.
tom@dewitts.com

daniel77350

I am talking with him right now about my options, I was just trying to find out why everyone went with the bigger 31X19...I know its the same cost as the smaller 26X19...but the problems with fit don't seem worth it.

Daniel

daniel77350

ok Im dumb. I realize now why the 31 inch is better. The core size is 26...the universal overall size is 26...the origional overall size is closer to the 31...I see said the dumba....

my bad guys.

Daniel

LT1driver

Daniel, in my opinion go with stock, you are not running a big block so cooling should be no problem, I run stock radiator in my 70 with no problems yet and would never consider anything but stock. :cheers:

daniel77350

my origional is rusted through. and acutally if I do go with the generic one, its about half the cost of an origional copper/brass...and aluminum so its lighter, and more efficient...I still have about 2 weeks to decide, so I'll weigh my options and make the best choice.

Daniel

mrvette

Unless you are going NCRS or some such crap, the best least costly radiator you can do is a unit from a late 80's camaro....V8 a/c car....the core is the same, but is a single aluminum row, and cools fine....need change hoses around though, lower hose is in middle of tank, but with a 1 1/2inch piece of copper pipe and a two clamps, make your own 'hose'....

oh, from your INDEPENDANT A/C delco dealer....its' around 200 bucks or less also....a nice feature....

GENE

daniel77350

would a griffin universal with 1 inch tubes cool well for north carolina summer weather(mid 90's, high humidity)? Also does it have the trans cooler fittings in it like a stock radiator? I heard they where a different size. That is fine with me...I need to learn how to flare and bend hardlines one of these days, may as well learn now.

Daniel

KenSny

Don't be so sure that the aluminum radiator is more efficient than the copper/brass, all things being equal the copper/brass is a better conductor of heat. Sure it's more expensive, and aluminum is lighter, but unless it is made with bigger tubes and such, it still will not cool as well. Most "Cooling" books will tell you that if you make the two radiators exactly the same, the aluminum will have about 49% of the brass/copper cooling ability.

mountainmotor

I dug into this a while back and posted but for the life of me I have forgotten!Something about in 77 or there abouts a newer design called the "HE" came from the supplier for GM. It has 1200 more heat dissapating fins than say a 1968 four core.A local 66 Vette with a iron oval port 560 hp motor stays @ 200 degrees or less with this style during 100 degree ambient temps.This info came from a long time friend that owns a radiator shop and is a 62 Vette owner with a very hot 327.I have discussed this with him before "he uses a brass 4 core" and he allowed that certainly the aluminum radiators will cool well but what are you going to do if they get clogged up,corroded ect? They cannot be serviced as in pulled apart and tanked ect.I guess they could but that is alot of aluminum welding!He also brought up a point to ponder.What good is the biggest,best radiator going to do with a A/C condenser obstructing it's air flow?So the HE style comes to mind there with the larger amount of heat dissapating fins.
edited to add that 5 row are available also!


[Modified by mountainmotor, 9:58 AM 12/24/2001]

KenSny

That always bothered me also. Think of all the heat you are sending into the front of the radiator when the A/C is on.

If you are going to decrease your cooling ability in one area (radiator) then you'd better be ready to increase it in another (fans, water pump, etc).



[Modified by KenSny, 1:58 PM 12/24/2001]

daniel77350

so if I do go with the generic, I should go with the bigger core tubes? I mean I realize the condinser is take a lot of the "spotlight"(air flow), but that would just mean to me that you'd have to compensate for that. Anyone know what I'm looking to pay if I go with the a copper/brass unit?

Radiators are to confusing. :crazy: All I want is something that'll keep my engine from over heating, and won't cost me an arm and a leg. If its lighter, or shineyer, thats cool too, but not top of my list. I do want to go electric fans, because I'd like to free up a little more HP, and make the engine easier to work on in the future(getting that fan/clutch/fan shroud crap off was a PITA)

Daniel

1yy07

Daniel, I use MODINE Radiators, your part#1R718 4 core you will also need GM part#2of 00458356 and 2 of #00458355. Get a helper to help you put it in.These radiators are really tough/h/d!

mountainmotor

Quote"Daniel, I use MODINE Radiators, your part#1R718 4 core you will also need GM part#2of 00458356 and 2 of #00458355. "

There you go!While in there I would pull the water pump off and plug the bypass hole on the passenger side of the block and buy a $6.00 anti cavitation plate from Summitt to install between the back plate and the water pump.Then get a 160 degree Robert Shaw style thermostat and drill four 1/8 inch holes in the body of it and get some Redline water wetter and after flushing the rest of the coolant out with a garden hose use distilled water and the absolute minimum Prestone anti freeze needed to get by without freezing in the area you live in.I would also make shure you upper and especially lower radiator hoses have the spring in them that keep them from collapsing and look over the a/c condensor and if any of the fins are bent there is a comb available to straighten these.Also,the little spoiler looking thing under the car must be there to direct air up towards the radiator.Is it on your car?You are now good for the go! He He!
Seriously.That is about as good as you are going to get.
edited to add that if you go back with the original fan/ shroud set up be certain the overall fan width sticks into the shroud half of that width for maximum pull of air.Also the rubber seals on both sides of the radiator and the top must be in place and in good condition to force the air through the radiator and not let it escape around it.

[Modified by mountainmotor, 3:20 PM 12/24/2001]


[Modified by mountainmotor, 3:23 PM 12/24/2001]

daniel77350

where do I get these radiators? and what parts are those part numbers?? brackets?

And what does drilling holes in the thermostat do?

Daniel

0Tom@Dewitt

I've posted this before and the debate will go on forever. If anyone has any metalurgy background, they will tell you copper is a better conductor of heat. electricity too! And they are right, copper is better!!!!!!!!

That's right, coming from the aluminum radiator guy. I say "Copper will disipate heat better than aluminum." But it's not about material! I'll say it again to stress this most important point:

ITS NOT ABOUT MATERIAL!!!

IT IS ALL ABOUT DESIGN!! Specifically tube design. The wider the tube, the more tube-to-fin surface area you get. Aluminum radiators can use fatter (wider) tubes without concern of weight. Someone stated "unless they use wider tubes", well they do! All of them, Griffin, be-cool, ron davis, CNR racing, visteon, and delphi. Two rows of one inch tubes.

I get a little smirk everytime I hear the term "four core". This ranks right up there with muffler bearings and carburator fuses. The "core" is the center area of the radiator that consists of tubes and fin. The correct discription of a brass/copper radiator would be calling out the number of rows IE 3 row or 4 row. If you had a four core, you would have four radiators.

Daniel, you have a lot of advise here so here's my recommendation: If you are definately going to put electric fans on this car, I would probably just get a four row brass/copper rad. You can get these anywhere for about $250. Volunteer vette sells the US rad. Fits right in with no modifications. Then put the dual 11" spals on it. We (dewitts) sell the complete kit for $344. The 26" core on this radiator is pretty big and should do the job with the fans.

Option 2, if your not sold on the fans. Go with the direct fit Griffin. Yes, you'd spend $500 but you wouldn't need the fans or anything else. Keep in mind, I do this for a living, not just a hobbie. I have done hundreds of cars so my advise isn't based on one or two cars.

daniel77350

I know tom, you have been more then helpful.

do you have the copper/brass rad's? or can you get them?

I may end up going with a expensice aluminum direct fit, and if I do I will get the rad/fan combo...I might as well go all out. I will let you know at the begining of january. Thats when the engine compartment will go back together(around then). There is no since in having a radiator sitting around for a month taking up space I don't have. So I'll order it toward the middle of putting things back together.

Daniel

KenSny

Daniel - Are you sure your current radiator is unrepairable? Did you have a radiator shop look at it (pressure tested)? Brass/Copper radiators are easy to repair especiallly if you are only talking a leak or two.....


[Modified by KenSny, 9:43 AM 12/25/2001]

mountainmotor

Quote by Tom DeWitt:
"I get a little smirk everytime I hear the term "four core". This ranks right up there with muffler bearings and carburator fuses. The "core" is the center area of the radiator that consists of tubes and fin. The correct discription of a brass/copper radiator would be calling out the number of rows IE 3 row or 4 row. If you had a four core, you would have four radiators."

If you look at the bottom of the second to last post I made I refered to a 5 row being available.Even others in the Radiator business use 4 core as a slang reference to a 4 row.It's been done for years and passed along to the younger generation.Thanks for enlightening us in a professional manor and the next time I need a radiator I will look up the part # in my muffler bearing book.

:p:

daniel77350

I'll have to look into it. The core is fine, no leaks, but the bottom is rusted out.

The left side is the bottom. You cannot really tell because its a bad picture, but that red color is rust. And toward the center of the radiator, its rusted through and if I hit it with a screw driver it will fall apart and that bottom section will be gone. I imagine thats just support??? Could that be fixed cheaply? How much am I looking at for repair?
As I said, its leak free, just rusted through at the bottom...but the core is fine and the side containters are fine. If I could have it repaired for under $100, I'll be on my way to a radiator shop ASAP.

Daniel