c5ride2004

This was on the local news last night, and here is the article on their site. I do not use car washes with any kind of brushes what so ever, but the touchless one I use, does not use this chemical. Interesting stuff.

http://www.wthr.com/global/story.asp?s=8359144


Kris

ATC

Thank you. I live around Indy also, and though I don't ever use Mike's for my cars, my wife does. (or did)

c5ride2004

Exactly, my girlfriend uses Mikes all the time for her Liberty, no more.

gsport

wow... interesting reading, thank you

allred

Holy Crap!!!!!!!! Hydroflrouric Acid is really, really scary stuff. I used to work on oil refineries, and they use it there to increase the octane rating of gasoline. (since the introduction of unleaded gasoline). hydrofluoric acid is commonly used in refinery alkylation processes to produce a high-octane gasoline blending component called alkylate from FCCU C3 and C4 olefins and isobutane.

We had to wear fully enclosed "space suits" with either back-pack breathing apparatus, or remote air tube feed for longer periods of work, whenever we were on the Hydroflouric Acid plant. Believe me, the extra pay for working near that stuff was not worth it!!!!

"The HF penetrates through your skin and into your tissue, works down to the bone and attacks the bone, turning it into calcium fluoride. More importantly, it gets into your blood stream, sequestering all the calcium in your blood, and that will stop your heart,"


At the refineries it is in its pure form, whereas in applications like car washes it will be in an extremely diluted form, but nevertheless still scary, scary stuff.

rws.1

Hydrofluoric acid is one of the few that will etch glass...
It is nastry stuff...

BigButtLover

Thanks for the info.

mforman42

In the olden days, we used it in a few experiments in college chemistry. No protection of any kind, just a warning to keep it off your skin and clothes. We never had eye protection, gloves or anything. I guess I'm lucky to be alive.

User 020720

I guess it's a good thing I stay away from automatic car washes.

allred

You got that right!!!!!!!!

Once I had ONE VERY SMALL DROP fall on my glove from an overhead leak when I wasn't in my space suit. I ripped the glove off immediately, but the acid had soaked though just enough to leave a moist spot on my finger. I treated it with the special cream they supplied us with but it still hurt like hell for the next 3 days, and the pain didn't go away for 3 weeks!

paz

I have worked extensively with HF. I use this acid to dissolve rocks to concentrate the organic particles. It will dissolve quartz, but it does very little damage to organic compounds (i.e. dead organics, people excluded). It is not to be toyed with. While most MDS sheets are written for tanker loads of the concentrated stuff, a small amount of concentrated HF can be lethal. The girl in the story is lucky to have only lost two fingers at the knuckle, because the HF gets into the tissue does damages and moves on. I read that after it destroys tissue it can revert back to HF and do more damage (probably reverting to something other than HF but nonetheless still capable of continued damage). I did get an HF burn to my thumb once. I was wearing gloves and the glove had a hole in the thumb. I soaked my thumb in calcium gluconate (I think, it was 25 yrs ago) for 2 days. It was dark red and sore, but never turned black. I still have it - I'm using it right now. Never wore gloves again while using HF. Without gloves I could tell when a drop got on my hand, then I could wash it off within seconds - no ill effects, no burns. It probably better to just get a new set of gloves.
HF used to be a key ingredient in CLR rust/scale remover. I bet it works wonders on hard water spots.

c1vettes

Since I think I am a contemporary of yours, you were probably working with HCL. None the less, neither is anything to fool with.

paz

I just noticed the top picture shows the HF barrel - that's the potent stuff 48-50% HF. HF is a gas that is dissolved in water so that about as concentrated as it gets. The owner says he diluted the acid. If you go back to high school chemistry class you may remember about diluting acids. Add 10 parts water to a strong acid and what do you get? Ten times as much strong acid! If you dilute a pH 1 acid with 10 parts water you get ten times as much pH2 acid - which is still very strong acid. PH is a log scale.

AORoads

made me sick to read the story.

CRABBYJ

That "special cream" is Calcium Gluconate. It will neutralized the effects of HF on your skin but is not to be used as an eye irrigation or ingested HF remedy. We use a 2.5% gel here in our saftey kit. We cut 48-51% HF to 200 ppm thus using all the saftey precautions (MSDS) mentioned above by others. Oh, and I can believe the story of that car wash employee losing her finger. The same almost happened to me cleaning glassware in a lab many years ago when I was just out of high school (and stupid!). The concentrated HF penatrated the non-approved latex glove (must be neoprene) to my right index finger which had a hang nail. Within 3 hours the pain was unbearable and could only be relieved by immersion in ice cold water. 8 hours later in the doctors office they received a liquid form of the above calcium gluconate and it was injected directly into my finger "1/2 inch" all around the nail "without novocaine" . The pain immediately stopped and the doctor informed me to expect the lose of my finger nail (which happened) and to report back if my finger turned black as it might then need amputation! Fortunitily I still have that digit.

degaux

mforman42

No, was HFl. Not nearly as dangerous as the cyanide we used to check for the presence of copper in unknowns, though.

Michrider

That's the trick to any touchless car wash - acids. If you've ever wondered how a car wash could clean your car without any cloths or brushes touching it - acids that melt dirt.

If you look at older aluminum wheels and you see where the clear coat is peeling off, especially around the wheel weights, that is where the acid didn't get rinsed off. It tends to puddle under the wheel weights.

Another good clue the car wash uses acid is look at the street right at the exit drive. If it is riddled with potholes right there at the exit, the acid dripping off the cars is eating the pavement. The car wash will probably have concrete going out their drive, so their stuff doesn't melt.

We had a car wash near me the city shut down because they were constantly damaging the street, then when the city found out there was also acid going down the sewer drains, the closed sign went up.

If the concentrations are kept perfect, nobody generally sees any problems. Get just the slightest bit too strong, and everything it contacts melts.

SanDiegoBert

Nastry, indeed.

PAmotorman

HF is used in the semiconductor industry to make transistors from silicon