convette01

I purchased an Optima Red top in July 2007 and have kept a battery tender on it over the winter. I cleaned the car last weekend and it started fine. The car went back into the garage without the battery tender for 3 days and now the car won't start; 9.2 volts on the DIC.

Do I have a bad red top?

jrose7004

Sounds like it!

bigbadbevo

Personally, I have had nothing but bad luck with the Optima (to be fair the Red Top) I went through a couple of "bad" ones in a very short period of time. It seems like their quality and/or quality control has gone way downhill.

I got over the cool looking "red top" and just got what has served me well in all my other vehicles for years- Sears DieHard Gold.

Red99FRC

I just replaced my Red Top with a Sears Platinum. The Red Top was only 16 months old, and wouldn't hold a charge. We'll see how the Platinum does... at least it's got a 4-year full replacement warranty, and a 100-month pro-rated. It also spins the engine over a lot faster than the weak-azz Red Top.

ZeeOSix

It's toast, unless there is some huge parasitic current draw going on.

You might want to check that before trashing the battery. The normal parasitic current draw is 18~20 mA.

If the battery is bad it should be under a full warranty if it's not even a year old yet.

fuel_junkie

I have a red top, have had it for 9+ months, no problems here.

ZeeOSix

I've had a Red Top in my Zee for about 3 years now ... no problems and holds a charge the same as it did when it was new. I baselined it when it was new so I can monitor once in a while and tell when it's going south.

Basically, it should take 3 or 4 weeks for the voltage to go down around the 12.2 volt level just sitting in the car ... so if it goes down below 12 volts in a week or less then the battery is near major failure, or there's some huge parasitic draw on it when the car is shut off.

If you can't do a parasitic current measurement, then take the battery out, charge it and monitor the self discharging ... if it's bad the voltage will drop significantly in a few days which means it's toated inside and self discharging in a big way.

jrose7004

I had one in my 98 for 2 years before I sold it.

MattB

No, they are all that way

I have never seen a battery that needed SO MUCH TLC. Not just on the Vettes, my boss has an old 911 and he is having issues as well. They seem to need a charge almost every day or they won't play, and tolerate zero drain. I have other things to spend my time on than tending to a battery.

While there definately is an issue with battery acid and the PCM, there has to be a better answer than red top. I'm going to use a wal-mart battery for a while, but will either find something else before I hit the track or find a way to deal with acid spills before I hit the track.

For those of you with good red tops, thats great, but far too many people are having issues, so why would you continue to endorse a product that may cause a person issues?? I bought one based on recomendations here and I'm not happy about it, I would have expected more people on the forum.

nextime

Red Tops are for daily drivers.

If you used a regular battery maintainer you might have destroyed it. The maintainer has to be designed for the Optima style battery.

Most people buy red tops for their cars and dont drive them enough and then say it is the battery's fault.

Yellow tops are designed for Garage queens or cars that are NOT driven regularly.

A few people in the Delorean world had the same issues with Red tops, then we figured out we should have been using the Yellow top battery for our Garage queens. After they switched to Yellow tops the batteries would not die anymore.

I swapped out my red top and put it in my daily driver and had zero issues with it, put it back in my Delorean and it would die cause I drove it once or twice a week.

chuck1026

I have two Red Tops. One is new, the other is three years old. They both work GREAT. Ultimately, what I say that is positive (or what you say that is negative) should be evaulated by the buyer to help them make a decision.

If the new RT purchased for my other ride ever develops issues, I will certainly chime in.

Chuck

ZeeOSix

The Red Top in my Zee isn't quite that bad. I'd say if it discharges enough to not start the car easily after sitting just 2 or 3 days then something is wrong. I've monitored mine (took a voltage measurement every day for 3 weeks) to see how it self-discharged with time, which is a good indication of the battery's health.

In 3 weeks, the voltage went from 12.6v (full charge on a Battery Tender) to 12.2v. This is probably the normal self-discharge patter of a Red Top with a 20 mA draw. But again, if the same battery dropped to 12.2 volts in a few days then it's on the way out or there is some big current draw on it when the car is shut off.

MattB

My drain is normal, but I went through 3 red tops in 18 months. I drive nearly every day in the summer and thats when two failed. Way too much TLC for an expensive battery IMO, and people need to know its could be an issue for them.

The yellow tops may not have the same issue, but the cost is pretty high.

bestvettever

Hi, it may be that you have a bad red top, the thing with Optima's design is such that some battery maintainers will never be able to charge them fully. They will maintain them at 80 or so %. So when the car sits all winter, you start it and then put it away without the maintainer, the red top is already partially dischaged from not being maintained properly, and has already started to sulphate, and with the small amount of sitting being normally drained, it sinks below starting voltage. These batteries in this condition may be able to be rejuvenated, by using a de sulphating maintainer such as the "Battery Minder Plus", sold at batterymart.com. Or may be to far gone to rely on. But before you write off the battery, you should check the maintainer you are using to see if it is working properly, and is of sufficient power to charge an AGM, or Optima properly. Also check all of the cable connections for cleanliness, and tightness. A loose cable end, or dirty connection can keep the battery from charging properly and the car from starting.
Now, as far as a yellow top is concerned, it's true that some people can get good service from a yellow top, but they are usually on cars that are not driven very often, or as back up batteries for high power stereo systems. If your driving pattern is somewhat normal, even for part of the year, the yellow top has a few drawbacks, it puts a bigger load on the cars charging system because of it's deep cycle design, and it will not withstand nearly as many start / charge cycles as a non deep cycle battery. And of course the cost is substantially higher for a battery that will not last any longer than a properly maintained battery that is made for the car.--Flame suit on.
Good Luck
http://www.batterymart.com/p-battery...y-charger.html

ZeeOSix

They all should have been under warranty. Did Optima give any reasons why the Red Tops have so many issues? I had one die on me too, but the 2nd one has been good for 3+ years. Wonder if it's a manufacturing quality issue?

ZeeOSix

Specifically what charger wouldn't be able to maintain a Red Top? I would assume any charger like a Battery Tender will put out enough charging voltage (13.8 ~14 volts) to bring a Red Top to full charge ... mine seems to just fine. The fully charged free voltage of a Red Top is really no different than an acid/lead 12 volt battery.

ISeeRed

The red top's spiral core design requires a special tender like the CTEK units. Regular chargers don't fully charge them. The CTEK unit has a special spiral core mode to take care of them. Not sure if that is why you have the issue, but I know this to be true. I have a CTEK charger that I use on my Delco in normal mode with no issues. The manufacturer made a big deal about the charger's abilities and claims they were contacted by optima to make a charger that would properly maintain them. The Super Chevy article below explains it pretty well!

http://www.superchevy.com/technical/...ima/index.html

http://www.optimabatteries.com.au/Pr...ekCharger.aspx

bestvettever

Below are the charging instructions from Optima's web site. They are very specific, because the design is not very forgiving as to overcharge heat, and undercharge. If you look at the float charge you can see that it takes 1 amp to charge the battery fully, anything under that as some maintainers put out will take an indefinite,(meaning never), time to bring it to a full charge. Also if the maintainer overcharges it , as the instructions indicate it will greatly shorten it's life. Normal water flooded batteries while not as good in some ways compared to an Optima, are more forgiving to overcharge,(because you can put more water in them), and take less amps to charge fully. many older maintainers, and some newer ones output a max of .85 amps.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
OPTIMA REDTOP STARTING BATTERIES
MODEL NUMBER 34 & 34R 75/25 34/78 25 & 35 6V
PERFORMANCE
Voltage 12v 12v 12v 12v 6v
Cold Cranking Amps @ 0F 800 720 800 720 800
Cranking Amps @ 32F 1000 910 1000 910 1000
Reserve Capacity 100 90 100 90 100
Capacity (C/20 Rate) 50 44 50 44 50
Internal Resistance (ohms) 0.003 0.003 0.003 0.003 0.0019
PHYSICAL SPECS
Length 10" 10 5/16" 10" 10 5/16" 10"
Width 6 7/8" 6 13/16" 6 7/8" 6 13/16" 6 7/8"
Height 8 7/8" 7 5/8" 7 13/16" 7 5/8" 7 13/16"
Minimum Weight (lbs) 37.9 33.1 38.8 31.7 18.4
Type Post/Terminal SAE Post Dual SAE & GM Dual SAE & GM SAE Post SAE Post
BCI Group 34 & 34R 75/35 34/78 25 & 35 N/A
OPTIMA REDTOP CHARGING INFORMATION
OPTIMA RedTop Charging Information
The following charging methods are recommended to insure a long battery life - always use a voltage-regulated charger, with voltage limits set as described below.

RedTop Type: 34 & 34R - 34/78 - 6V - 25 & 35 - 75/25
These batteries are designed for engine starting applications. They are NOT recommended or warranted for use in deep cycle applications.

Recommended charging information:

Alternator:
13.3 to 15.0 volts, no amperage limit.

Battery Charger:
13.8 to 15.0 volts, 10 amps maximum, 6-12 hours approximate.

Rapid Recharge:
Maximum voltage 15.6 volts (regulated), no current limit as long as battery temperature remains below 125°F (51.7°C). Charge until current drops below 1 amp. When current drops below 1 amp, it is fully charged, and the pulse mode needs to kick in and maintain it. If the maintainer can not put out 1 amp, it will not be able to maintain the battery at full capacity

Float Charge:
13.2 to 13.8 volts, 1 amp maximum current, time indefinite (at lower voltage).

All limits must be strictly adhered to.
Safety Information:

Always wear safety glasses when working with batteries.
Always use a voltage regulated battery charger with limits set to the above ratings. Overcharging can cause the safety valves to open and battery gasses to escape, resulting in premature failure. These gasses are flammable! You cannot replace water in sealed batteries that have been overcharged. Any battery that becomes very hot or makes a hissing sound while recharging should be disconnected immediately.
Failure to fully charge a battery can result in poor performance and a reduction in capacity.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++
As you can see, if you check the various maintainers specs, that many maintainers were simply not made for this newer technology

Good Luck

bestvettever

Below is an excerpt from a Battery Minder product info sheet.
It shows why AGM batteries need special handling.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
(Model # 12118)
AGM/OPTIMA BatteryMINDer PLUS®
Maintenance Charger / Desulphator-Conditioner
12 Volt – 1.0 Amp1 Model 12118

Don’t just charge your batteries…Condition them!
This specially adjusted BatteryMINDer PLUS® is designed to maintain Optima, Odyssey and all known brands of AGM sealed “dry” batteries at full charge, without ever overcharging. Special adjustment ensures complete compliance with battery manufacturer’s exact specifications for cyclic long term non-use storage. One (1) Amp (constant voltage) maximum current, when battery is at less than full charge when first stored, complies with AGM battery maker’s requirements.

The BatteryMINDer Plus® goes two steps further than any known maintenance charger. Using Pulse Width Modulated (PWM) circuitry the unit supplies each battery with just the amount of current needed to raise or maintain the battery’s voltage at full charge level. Second step is the full-time automatic process that safely removes harmful sulphation3. By using U.S. patented pulse mode technology it dissolves the crystals of sulphate that prevents the battery from delivering its full power and cycle life. It does this without raising the output voltage above the battery maker’s maximum recommended voltage levels. Keeping the battery free of sulphate virtually guarantees to significantly increase your battery’s life and performance. All units are individually adjusted to ensure compliance with each batter manufacturer’s specifications.

VDC Electronics guarantees a sulphate-free battery over its entire life-time or you will receive 100% of your money back. This guarantee is in addition to a five (5) year “no hassle” warranty.

NOTE: Model 12118 AGM / OPTIMA BatteryMINDer PLUS® should only be used on AGM type sealed batteries, not “filler cap” liquid batteries, due to its special voltage settings. This unit is designed primarily as a maintenance charger for long term, safe storage charging of Optima and other similar AGM type batteries, not as a primary or general charging source.


11.0 Amp = Maximum current available if required by battery when unit is in maintenance mode. Charge voltage, 14.7; Float-Maintenance voltage, 13.4. If storing or in-season charging your battery, in higher than 77 degrees F temperatures, we recommend maintenance voltage setting of 0.2–volts lower, namely 13.2-V (Float).
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++
I would like to say that I am not pushing this product, and have absolutely nothing to do with the product or company. And I am sure that there are some other maintainers that also will do the job, but there are some that won't , which was my original point
Good Luck

NOCKOUT67

I bought a brand new red top battery and it was dead ,dead , dead, ok it was puttin out 9+ only after the great auto gods @ vic hubbards told me my $160.00 nedded to be charged first ... lol I dont think Forrest Gump would have fell for that , exchanged for a new battery from another redtop distributer with reciept and 14v on contact ....peace