F.Y.I heres the official scoop
04-10-2008, 08:13 AM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
F.Y.I heres the official scoop
the following is the p.i for calibration confirmation from GM
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#PIP4386: Identifying Aftermarket Engine Calibrations - 2.0 2.2 2.4 2.8 2.9 3.0 3.1 3.2 3.4 3.5 3.6 3.8 3.9 4.2 4.3 4.4 4.6 4.8 5.0 5.3 5.7 6.0 6.2 7.0 7.4 8.1 - (Apr 8, 2008)
Subject: Identifying Aftermarket Engine Calibrations
Models: 2005-2009 GM Passenger Cars and Light Duty Trucks
except Pontiac Vibe, Chevy Aveo, and All Saab Models
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.
Condition/Concern:
A dealer may have the need to verify engine calibrations. If a dealer feels an aftermarket power-up calibration has induced engine and/or drive train damage, there is now a way to verify what calibration is currently in the vehicle.
If a suspicious hard part failure is observed in the engine, transmission, transfer case, or driveline, perform the calibration verification described to determine if a non GM issued engine calibration is installed. Non GM issued engine calibrations subject driveline components to stresses different than those that these components were validated to. Repairs to transmission, transfer case and / or other driveline components where a non GM engine calibration has been verified, are not covered under the terms of the New Vehicle Warranty.
Recommendation/Instructions:
Instructions for confirming Calibration Verification Number (CVN)
• Go to TIS2WEB
• Select Calibration Information (SPS Info)
• Enter VIN
• Select "Get Cal ID"
• Select ECM Engine Control Module
• Hit "next"
• Select "Complete History"
• Print
Take Printout to Vehicle along with Tech II
• Plug in Tech II
• Go to diagnostics and build the vehicle
• Select Powertrain
• Select the engine
• Select F0 - Engine Control Module
• Select F4/F5 - I/M information System / Module ID information*
• Select F1
• Compare the calibration ID and Calibration Verification Numbers (CVN) to the Calibration Verification Numbers (CVN) on the printout.
* This step may vary by controller; use the Module ID Information in the Engine Controls.
Although the part numbers will be the same for each, it's the CVN that will determine if the calibration is GM issued.
If ALL of the CVN's are EXACTLY the same, the calibration is GM issued.
If the part numbers match and ANY calibration verification numbers (CVN's) do not match the printout, it is likely that a non GM certified calibration has been installed.
In order to document the case - a CLEAR digital picture should be taken of the TECH 2 screen showing the VIN and the CVN's that do not match the TIS2WEB printout. The picture and a PDF copy of the TIS2WEB printout should be forwarded to jay.dankovich@GM.com for verification along with the VIN and the reason the vehicle is currently in for service. Please copy your GM Area Service Manager (DVM/DSM) on the e-mail. GM will verify if the CVN's are not GM issued and respond via e-mail within 48 hours.
If both the Part numbers and the CVN are different, photograph the part numbers and CVN's on the tech 2 screen as described above, assuring the VIN shows clearly in the photograph of the TECH2 screen, and check to see if the vehicle has the latest released calibration. If the latest released calibration is not installed in the vehicle, the part numbers will not match , and the CVN's won't either. E- mail the original Part Numbers and CVN's found in the vehicle on the TECH 2 to: jay.dankovich@GM.com to check if the calibration and CVN matches a previous release. Recalibrate with the latest released cal and re-check against the part numbers and CVN's that are released.
Please follow this diagnostic or repair process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#PIP4386: Identifying Aftermarket Engine Calibrations - 2.0 2.2 2.4 2.8 2.9 3.0 3.1 3.2 3.4 3.5 3.6 3.8 3.9 4.2 4.3 4.4 4.6 4.8 5.0 5.3 5.7 6.0 6.2 7.0 7.4 8.1 - (Apr 8, 2008)
Subject: Identifying Aftermarket Engine Calibrations
Models: 2005-2009 GM Passenger Cars and Light Duty Trucks
except Pontiac Vibe, Chevy Aveo, and All Saab Models
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.
Condition/Concern:
A dealer may have the need to verify engine calibrations. If a dealer feels an aftermarket power-up calibration has induced engine and/or drive train damage, there is now a way to verify what calibration is currently in the vehicle.
If a suspicious hard part failure is observed in the engine, transmission, transfer case, or driveline, perform the calibration verification described to determine if a non GM issued engine calibration is installed. Non GM issued engine calibrations subject driveline components to stresses different than those that these components were validated to. Repairs to transmission, transfer case and / or other driveline components where a non GM engine calibration has been verified, are not covered under the terms of the New Vehicle Warranty.
Recommendation/Instructions:
Instructions for confirming Calibration Verification Number (CVN)
• Go to TIS2WEB
• Select Calibration Information (SPS Info)
• Enter VIN
• Select "Get Cal ID"
• Select ECM Engine Control Module
• Hit "next"
• Select "Complete History"
Take Printout to Vehicle along with Tech II
• Plug in Tech II
• Go to diagnostics and build the vehicle
• Select Powertrain
• Select the engine
• Select F0 - Engine Control Module
• Select F4/F5 - I/M information System / Module ID information*
• Select F1
• Compare the calibration ID and Calibration Verification Numbers (CVN) to the Calibration Verification Numbers (CVN) on the printout.
* This step may vary by controller; use the Module ID Information in the Engine Controls.
Although the part numbers will be the same for each, it's the CVN that will determine if the calibration is GM issued.
If ALL of the CVN's are EXACTLY the same, the calibration is GM issued.
If the part numbers match and ANY calibration verification numbers (CVN's) do not match the printout, it is likely that a non GM certified calibration has been installed.
In order to document the case - a CLEAR digital picture should be taken of the TECH 2 screen showing the VIN and the CVN's that do not match the TIS2WEB printout. The picture and a PDF copy of the TIS2WEB printout should be forwarded to jay.dankovich@GM.com for verification along with the VIN and the reason the vehicle is currently in for service. Please copy your GM Area Service Manager (DVM/DSM) on the e-mail. GM will verify if the CVN's are not GM issued and respond via e-mail within 48 hours.
If both the Part numbers and the CVN are different, photograph the part numbers and CVN's on the tech 2 screen as described above, assuring the VIN shows clearly in the photograph of the TECH2 screen, and check to see if the vehicle has the latest released calibration. If the latest released calibration is not installed in the vehicle, the part numbers will not match , and the CVN's won't either. E- mail the original Part Numbers and CVN's found in the vehicle on the TECH 2 to: jay.dankovich@GM.com to check if the calibration and CVN matches a previous release. Recalibrate with the latest released cal and re-check against the part numbers and CVN's that are released.
Please follow this diagnostic or repair process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed.
So the bottom line is, if you want a tune and you also want to keep your warranty, buy an Aveo. 
04-10-2008, 08:31 AM
#3
Drifting
the following is the p.i for calibration confirmation from GM
Condition/Concern:
A dealer may have the need to verify engine calibrations. If a dealer feels an aftermarket power-up calibration has induced engine and/or drive train damage, there is now a way to verify what calibration is currently in the vehicle.
If a suspicious hard part failure is observed in the engine, transmission, transfer case, or driveline, perform the calibration verification described to determine if a non GM issued engine calibration is installed. Non GM issued engine calibrations subject driveline components to stresses different than those that these components were validated to. Repairs to transmission, transfer case and / or other driveline components where a non GM engine calibration has been verified, are not covered under the terms of the New Vehicle Warranty.
Condition/Concern:
A dealer may have the need to verify engine calibrations. If a dealer feels an aftermarket power-up calibration has induced engine and/or drive train damage, there is now a way to verify what calibration is currently in the vehicle.
If a suspicious hard part failure is observed in the engine, transmission, transfer case, or driveline, perform the calibration verification described to determine if a non GM issued engine calibration is installed. Non GM issued engine calibrations subject driveline components to stresses different than those that these components were validated to. Repairs to transmission, transfer case and / or other driveline components where a non GM engine calibration has been verified, are not covered under the terms of the New Vehicle Warranty.
This is all about the histeria of people saying GM will void your warranty if you tune your car. GM set the precident by specifically calling out tunes on the Duramax. Until they use the same wording for all vehicles only the Duramax may have it's warranty voided. Note that I said may. That is because that is the wording in the warranty book for 2008.
There is a reason the Duramax was singled out. You can get a tune that provides 300hp and 500ft lbs of torque and that is from a hand held tuner.
Again people lets use some common sense here. We are only talking 20hp max with a tune only LS2 or LS3. What do you get for that, a better running vehicle and better mpg. Provided its not tuned so lean as to burn a hole into a piston there is not one component that should fail with that small of bump.
I am not saying that GM will not crack down on future vehicles. But as it stands today GM will be hard pressed to void your warranty unless you let them.
There is a reason the Duramax was singled out. You can get a tune that provides 300hp and 500ft lbs of torque and that is from a hand held tuner.
Again people lets use some common sense here. We are only talking 20hp max with a tune only LS2 or LS3. What do you get for that, a better running vehicle and better mpg. Provided its not tuned so lean as to burn a hole into a piston there is not one component that should fail with that small of bump.
I am not saying that GM will not crack down on future vehicles. But as it stands today GM will be hard pressed to void your warranty unless you let them.
Bummer
04-10-2008, 08:52 AM
#4
Melting Slicks
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St. Jude Donor '08-'09
Looks like the dealerships will be looking a bit harder for tunes now. You want to play you gotta pay..
04-10-2008, 09:00 AM
#5
Melting Slicks
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04-10-2008, 09:18 AM
#7
Team Owner
Diablosport along with a couple other tuners in the vette world has already changed their programming to get around this.
04-10-2008, 09:32 AM
#8
Safety Car
I didn't see this asked in all the other threads that have recently popped up concerning this issue, or I missed it, but what if you use HP Tuner or EFI Live and are changing some of the aspects of the factory tune. The VIN is still intact as well as many other variables that GM uses to validate a tune, are this changed when down loading the new tune? Can these tunes be seen?
I can see where a handheld 'canned' tune could be seen, but what about the above?
I can see where a handheld 'canned' tune could be seen, but what about the above?
04-10-2008, 10:00 AM
#10
CF Senior Member
Member Since: Feb 2006
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I had something done at the dealership yesterday and I asked one of their Corvette mechanics about these new procedures to ID tuned vehicles...it was his impression that even vehicles restored to a factory tune could be identified as having been altered.
I know for a fact that the dealership was going-after diesel trucks with the so-called tuning chips a couple years ago. I tend to think if these tuned Duramax trucks went through undetected, they weren't being specifically checked for altered tuning.
I don't see what all the fuss is about...if you modify your car...if you change the operating parameters from those designed and warranted by GM, why should GM still provide warranty repairs for 'related' failures? You had your vehicle tuned...you voluntarily altered the way it runs...man-up and be responsible for your actions.
If your warranty is more valuable than the modifications you're making, don't modify your car...wait until your warranty has expired or be prepared to pay for certain repairs yourself. If some tuner says they've gotten around these procedures to identify tuned cars...are you willing to bet your warranty on it?
I know for a fact that the dealership was going-after diesel trucks with the so-called tuning chips a couple years ago. I tend to think if these tuned Duramax trucks went through undetected, they weren't being specifically checked for altered tuning.
I don't see what all the fuss is about...if you modify your car...if you change the operating parameters from those designed and warranted by GM, why should GM still provide warranty repairs for 'related' failures? You had your vehicle tuned...you voluntarily altered the way it runs...man-up and be responsible for your actions.
If your warranty is more valuable than the modifications you're making, don't modify your car...wait until your warranty has expired or be prepared to pay for certain repairs yourself. If some tuner says they've gotten around these procedures to identify tuned cars...are you willing to bet your warranty on it?
04-10-2008, 10:05 AM
#11
Drifting
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I had something done at the dealership yesterday and I asked one of their Corvette mechanics about these new procedures to ID tuned vehicles...it was his impression that even vehicles restored to a factory tune could be identified as having been altered.
I know for a fact that the dealership was going-after diesel trucks with the so-called tuning chips a couple years ago. I tend to think if these tuned Duramax trucks went through undetected, they weren't being specifically checked for altered tuning.
I don't see what all the fuss is about...if you modify your car...if you change the operating parameters from those designed and warranted by GM, why should GM still provide warranty repairs for 'related' failures? You had your vehicle tuned...you voluntarily altered the way it runs...man-up and be responsible for your actions. I guess I am also lucky to have a friendly local dealership. Unless you open up the engine for the aftermarket parts...or go FI...they are fine with it.
If your warranty is more valuable than the modifications you're making, don't modify your car...wait until your warranty has expired or be prepared to pay for certain repairs yourself. If some tuner says they've gotten around these procedures to identify tuned cars...are you willing to bet your warranty on it?
I know for a fact that the dealership was going-after diesel trucks with the so-called tuning chips a couple years ago. I tend to think if these tuned Duramax trucks went through undetected, they weren't being specifically checked for altered tuning.
I don't see what all the fuss is about...if you modify your car...if you change the operating parameters from those designed and warranted by GM, why should GM still provide warranty repairs for 'related' failures? You had your vehicle tuned...you voluntarily altered the way it runs...man-up and be responsible for your actions. I guess I am also lucky to have a friendly local dealership. Unless you open up the engine for the aftermarket parts...or go FI...they are fine with it.
If your warranty is more valuable than the modifications you're making, don't modify your car...wait until your warranty has expired or be prepared to pay for certain repairs yourself. If some tuner says they've gotten around these procedures to identify tuned cars...are you willing to bet your warranty on it?
04-10-2008, 11:35 AM
#12
Melting Slicks
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St. Jude Donor '08-'09
04-10-2008, 01:50 PM
#14
Melting Slicks
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To all those who think that some kind of modified tune will escape the notice of the tech, you are mistaken.
I spoke today with my tech at the dealership where my car goes. I've known this guy for years, and he's a top-notch tech. Anyway, he had read about this from GM, and he assured me that EVERY tune, no matter the source, leaves a footprint in the car regardless of whether the original tune is put back into the car later. The simple fact of replacing the tune program with altered information leaves a footprint, and the scanner CAN read that. It's not an issue for me because the large supercharger on the front of my engine is kind of a dead giveaway.
It amazes me that people in here are actually encouraging the development on non-detectible tunes. If you're going to go that route, then do not complain when a dealer sticks you for every single cent they can - doc fees, hidden fees, "upholstery protectant," "undercoating," and all the rest - you are committing fraud, and they should be entitled to do the same back to you.
I spoke today with my tech at the dealership where my car goes. I've known this guy for years, and he's a top-notch tech. Anyway, he had read about this from GM, and he assured me that EVERY tune, no matter the source, leaves a footprint in the car regardless of whether the original tune is put back into the car later. The simple fact of replacing the tune program with altered information leaves a footprint, and the scanner CAN read that. It's not an issue for me because the large supercharger on the front of my engine is kind of a dead giveaway.
It amazes me that people in here are actually encouraging the development on non-detectible tunes. If you're going to go that route, then do not complain when a dealer sticks you for every single cent they can - doc fees, hidden fees, "upholstery protectant," "undercoating," and all the rest - you are committing fraud, and they should be entitled to do the same back to you.
04-10-2008, 02:01 PM
#15
Drifting
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To all those who think that some kind of modified tune will escape the notice of the tech, you are mistaken.
I spoke today with my tech at the dealership where my car goes. I've known this guy for years, and he's a top-notch tech. Anyway, he had read about this from GM, and he assured me that EVERY tune, no matter the source, leaves a footprint in the car regardless of whether the original tune is put back into the car later. The simple fact of replacing the tune program with altered information leaves a footprint, and the scanner CAN read that. It's not an issue for me because the large supercharger on the front of my engine is kind of a dead giveaway.
It amazes me that people in here are actually encouraging the development on non-detectible tunes. If you're going to go that route, then do not complain when a dealer sticks you for every single cent they can - doc fees, hidden fees, "upholstery protectant," "undercoating," and all the rest - you are committing fraud, and they should be entitled to do the same back to you.
I spoke today with my tech at the dealership where my car goes. I've known this guy for years, and he's a top-notch tech. Anyway, he had read about this from GM, and he assured me that EVERY tune, no matter the source, leaves a footprint in the car regardless of whether the original tune is put back into the car later. The simple fact of replacing the tune program with altered information leaves a footprint, and the scanner CAN read that. It's not an issue for me because the large supercharger on the front of my engine is kind of a dead giveaway.
It amazes me that people in here are actually encouraging the development on non-detectible tunes. If you're going to go that route, then do not complain when a dealer sticks you for every single cent they can - doc fees, hidden fees, "upholstery protectant," "undercoating," and all the rest - you are committing fraud, and they should be entitled to do the same back to you.
I admit that abusing your car is grounds for voiding of a warrenty, but not an exhaust/intake/tune (as long as it's not the cause of the problem. I can understand them voiding your warrenty if you suck up water with your intake, or lean out your tune so much you burn up the engine.
04-10-2008, 02:08 PM
#16
Le Mans Master
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Sooooooooooo....if you bought another PCM, and had it programmed with whatever tune you wanted, and kept your stock one to put back in when you take it to the dealer?
Nevermind...the PCM's probably log dates and times, number of start up cycles as well, dont' they?
Nevermind...the PCM's probably log dates and times, number of start up cycles as well, dont' they?
04-10-2008, 02:17 PM
#17
Melting Slicks
Yes they might, but the way I read the description they are verifying the approved GM tune is in the vehicle, which the stock one would have.
04-10-2008, 02:48 PM
#18
Burning Brakes
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I like your idea!
04-10-2008, 06:29 PM
#20
Race Director
Not really. GM can print or attempt to do anything they want until someone challenges them. I have said all along that just because your car is tuned GM will not void your warranty. It must be a, in there own words a suspicious hard part failure. Now if I break a valve spring and have raised the rev limiter they have a case. If I grenade a piston they may have a case. If I change shift points on a A6 they may have case.
If I burn my T-6060 up they don't. The power levels of a intake, header and tuned C6 don't reach the levels of the Z06. They may get me for abuse but not for a tune. But if they want to say it is the tune, I guess they won't mind me going to the papers and telling the world that the tranny they put behind the Z06 is inadequate for the intended purpose.
In the end unless you just want to roll over, GM will have to prove that it was indeed the tune that caused the failure. If what I do to my car is the cause of the problem then I don't have any problem taking responsibility. On the other hand I won't let GM get out of its responsibility because it cost them money.
If I burn my T-6060 up they don't. The power levels of a intake, header and tuned C6 don't reach the levels of the Z06. They may get me for abuse but not for a tune. But if they want to say it is the tune, I guess they won't mind me going to the papers and telling the world that the tranny they put behind the Z06 is inadequate for the intended purpose.
In the end unless you just want to roll over, GM will have to prove that it was indeed the tune that caused the failure. If what I do to my car is the cause of the problem then I don't have any problem taking responsibility. On the other hand I won't let GM get out of its responsibility because it cost them money.