69L88clone

Hi All,
My '69 vette has an engine casting of: 3916321
The stamp pad reads: CE 852797
My understanding is that this means I have a replacement '68 427 engine.
Is there any way to decipher the CE stamping to further determine to what specs. it was built?
I read somewhere that the "8" means it is a '68 & that engines built between the following numbers, 50,000-79999, means it was built in Tonowanda.Therefore this means my '68 engine was the 2,797th 427 built at Tonowanda.Can anyone confirm if this is correct?
Furthermore, & more importantly,how can I tell if it was built as a 390(L36),400(L68),430(L88) or 435(L71) h.p.?
I was told the car has been restored to L88 specs but do not know how to go about confirming this.
Thanks in advance for any assistance you can provide.
Jim Pascale

clem zahrobsky

check the number of tapped pipe plug holes above the oil filter. i have never seen a 2 bolt block with the 2 pipe tapped holes above the oil filter. the extra hole is for a external oil cooler. :chevy

lbell101

I can confirm from my recent data collection endeavor that most of what you wrote is true. According to that data:
CE 852797 is a 1968 replacement engine built in Tonowanda.
According to the info, the number was assigned sequentially to each engine built meaning that it's not neccesarily the 2,797th 427 CI engine but rather the 2,797th engine of any CID.
The casting number confirms that it is a 1968 427 block but that same number was used 0n the 30, 400, 430, and 435 hp versions.
I'm not sure there is a way to tell from the info given what version it was originally. Maybe the head numbers would help with that?

Allan71

....the cylinder heads on the L88 and L89 of course will be aluminum and are casting number 3919842 (2.19/1.84 valves). The L71 heads are iron and are 3919840 and I think alos used the same size valves but not sure. The L36/L68 heads are iron and 3917215 and used 2.06/1.72 valves. There is now way to tell what the engine is from the outside from the CE stamp. Did the owner say this was the engine installed under warranty way back when? Is the car a 68 or 69? There are other clues on the car to determine what would have been installed, but unless this engine was the one installed it may not help much.

Flareside

Jim, is this car supposed to be a clone of a complete L88, or just the L88 engine? Many other parts of the car are different on an L88 (no heat, different brakes, M22 transmission, always has power brakes, etc.)

The only thing you can check from the outside is whether or not you have four bolt mains (the oil holes that Clem mentioned above). That will narrow it down to L36/L68 or L88/L89/L71. To check the head casting numbers, you'll need to remove the valve covers, since the numbers are underneath next to the valves.


[Modified by Flareside, 2:24 PM 12/8/2001]

69L88clone

2 Things
First,I have finally been able to post the photos taken by the former owner & put on disk whiich I have now posted to photopoint.I'll take better photos,but for now here they are: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/Album...395&a=14086536
Tell me what you think.
Secondly,can you explain alittle more to the mechanically- challenged how to determine 2 bolt v.4 bolt.I went & looked under my car(it's a tight squeeze!),located the oil filter,but, I'm honestly am sure what I'm looking for.Can you be alittle more specific?It would be cool to narrow it down to L36/L68 or L88/L89/L71!
Jim Pascale
Thanks all.
Jim Pascale

Allan71

That is a beautiful car and what a rare color combination. Just looking at the pictures, it looks like the car was an original L36. The correct looking aluminun intake, the 5600 redline tach and the small stamped alternator pulley are L36 pieces. Look on the frame next to the fuel pump and see how many steel fuel lines you see connected to the pump. The L36 with it's q-jet carb used two lines, all other big blocks in 69 just used one. It is possible that the car was an L68 that is missing the 3x2 setup. Also jack up the car and look at the tranny from the right side. Check the numbers stamped into the case to see if its the original tranny to the car. The VIN stamp will 19S7XXXXX with the X's being the last 5 digits of your VIN. Look also at the tranny suffix stamp (begins with a P). If the last letter is an A and the tranny is original, the car could not possibly be an L71 or L89 since they required the M21 Close Ratio (B) tranny (or Auto) and the M20 Wide Ratio tranny was not availalbe. Since your car does not have A/C, it would have been possible to get the M21 on the L36/L68. Also, all M20 L36 and L68 4-speed cars will have either a 3.08 or 3.36 axle (codes AU, AT, AW, or AV).


[Modified by Allan71, 3:05 PM 12/8/2001]

Flareside

Jim, nice car! You've got a very nice '69 big block vette.

Now for the bad news... That ain't no L88 :( From the pictures, here's what I see (I'm sure I'm missing a few things):

1. No L88 hood. The L88 had a special highrise hood that had the air filter built into a chamber in the hood. No L88 air cleaner assembly.

2. Your car has heat. L88's didn't have heat.

3. Radiator shroud. You've got one, L88's don't.

4. Chrome ignition shielding (chrome box around the coil and distributor). L88 didn't get this, because it's for radio interference. L88's don't have radios...

5. It looks like your cylinder heads are orange, which would indicate that they're iron. Aluminum L88 heads are bare aluminum.

None of this is bad, since these differences make for a much nicer street car. I just hope you didn't pay an L88 type price!

Hope this helps,

Joe

Allan71

Actually only the 1967 L-88 required you to order RPO C48 Heater Delete. The new for 68 law requiring all new cars to have at least a defroster required Chevrolet to eliminate RPO C48 since there was no practical way for them to eliminate the heater without eliminating the defroster, so consequently ALL 1968 and 1969 L-88s (and the 2 ZL-1s) have a heater. This fact though escapes most magazine article writers and you will read over and over again that all L88s were heater delete.

And Joe one more L-88 thing (since you brought it up :)), only the M-22 equipped L-88s and ZL-1s did not use a fan shroud along with their aluminum radiator. These two engines however when equipped with the Automatic transmission did in fact use a shroud, along with the standard copper radiator. This change was necessary to provide cooling provisions for the Turbo 400 since the aluminum radiator had no built in cooler.

69L88clone

Hi Guys,
Thanks for all the clarifications.Here's some more info about the car.
I know it's not a true L88.I was told SOME of the mechanics were rebuilt to L88 specs.i.e.solid lifters,rockers,springs,L88 cam,Holley 850,12.5:1 C.R.,closed chamber heads,4:11 rear.That's about all I've been told.I also know the car was originally a 427/390.
A couple more questions, please.
I would love to put on an L88 hood.But, as you can see,my car is already very well restored.From looking around it appears it will cost me around $1K to buy,paint & install an L88 hood with air chamber.Is this number about right?Will the cowl induction make a performance difference?Does the L88 hood impair visibility?
I paid $21750.The car is totally restored.Fair price?
Jim Pascale

Iliad

Jim you have a nice ride. I noticed in the pictures you have '68 style taillights in the back. Do all four taillights light up with the lights on? '69 only used the two outboard lights and the two inner ones were for back-up lights. Do you have back-up lights? If your car is a 390hp you really don't need a L-88 hood, anyways it's a choice only you can make. Illiad

Flareside

Jim, the L88 used alumunum open chamber heads. You, more than likely, have the stock iron closed chamber L36 heads. What RPM does your car idle at? An L88 cam is pretty radical, so it has a rough ("lopey") idle above 1000 rpm. If your car can idle normally at around 750 rpm, it's not an L88 cam.

What type of fuel are you running in it?

I think your estimate of 1k is a little low for an L88 hood, but I may be wrong. I think the hood runs around $600, then you still need the fresh air chamber, air cleaner base, and paint. Best guess would be $1000 plus whatever the paint costs. Some people just install the hood without the fresh air chamber and air cleaner for the look without the function.

Couldn't really comment on your price without seeing the car in person. They all look great in pictures!

69L71

I have a little experience with CE engines from my 70 ElCamino SS retroration.

Yes, the 852797 refers to the consecutive engine built. The 8 does suggest a 1968 build date. Don't let that concern you. I believe your corvette had a 36 month warantee period. That means that any time over 36 months the owner could have come back with a problem, and the dealer would have ordered a short-block for replacement. The short blocks were pulled from inventory, and they ship whatever was the next motor, regardless of assembly date. So it wouldn't be too unusual to see a 68 (or maybe even a late 67) shortblock installed in a 69, and they could have gone all the way up to 72.

Keep in mind I mention shortblock. They almost never replaced a complete engine assembly. They'd replace the shortblock and keep the original heads, intake, carb, and exhaust manifolds. You might want to check the head and intake casting numbers and dates. That will tell you more about the origins of your car.

BTW, Nice pics. I have a 69 black/black 427/435 coupe that I'm restoring. Its nice to see some pics to remind myself what it will be like when its done....

L71

first digit is the year it was replaced not year of block , short was pulled from shelf then stamped then shipped, second digit is supposed to be month of replacement , therefore your engine was replaced in 1968 and the casting date (right side of block) would not be later than dec. 1968 . the stamp would not tell you which version of 427. check oil filter boss for 3/4" plug , if plug exists then high horse engine, good luck