wheeljo2

Ok nice burnout ET streets dumped the clutch at 3,000 and quick clunk. LR wheel locked up towed it home and got it in the garage but have yet to tear it down. The LR will roll slightly but it is definitely hung up. I fired it up and tried to forward or backward and with the door open I noted the wheel flopping around so it appears to be the outer hub behind the rotor.

What's back there and how difficult/expensive is it to replace? The half shafts and u-joints look fine and the pumpkin looks fine and have not leaks. I did notice a few metal shavings under the LR outer U-joint but could not figure out where it was coming from.

Thanks for your help, need to get my ride roadworthy again soon.

_twisted_

Well your going to have to remove more then just the wheel and rotor to get to the possible repair.

DO a search for Neat and breakage, he has a bunch of pictures of all the parts he has tore up

rodj

Sheared off outer spindle that drives hub???

RichS

Could be broken spider gears or the spindle if the shaft is still there and the u-joints are both in one piece.

TA

I think its safe to say something F'd up in your rear

93 ragtop

Start by taking the half shaft loose from the diff. and see if the wheel and halfshaft turn freely. If so, its in the diff.
BTW, may not be the time to tell you this now, but dumping the clutch at 3000 rpm's with ET Streets is asking for trouble. The D44 is not designed to dead hook with such a hard launch. Even with a automatic, I have broke 3 and im on my 4th.
Personally I am looking at Leo with Neverlift and im going to get one of his solid axle setups! Then its time!

wheeljo2

Thanks guys, I appreciate the advice. My first run was only a 2.05 60 ft with a 2,000 RPM launch and that pretty much sux with ET streets right? I thought I needed a bit more ummph out of the hole but my aftermarket clutch bit hard the track was prepped nicely, plus I probably dumped the clutch too hard and stomped the gas. Are you guys feathering the clutch and throttle in the beginning?

QuikZilver

I'm upgrading the rear as well...going with ski_dwn_it's solid rear end and then selling my Dana 44 to a fellow racer who isn't running the HP I will be.

Dr. Evil

Geeez, hate to hear that about the rear. Kinda scares me a bit too. I've had alot of sub 2.0 sixtey foots and a handfull of 1.70s on DRs. I dump my clutch at 4000-4500 to get the 1.70s.

neat

You broke an outer spindle. The swap isn't too bad, after breaking 5 or 6 of them I can do it in about 45 minutes now.

The hit of the clutch is what does it. I broke 3-4 spindles cutting 2.0's on street tires. The 60 doesn't have much to do with it, the sudden SMACK of a good after market clutch is what does it. I could break them from a roll if I wanted to. 15 MPH, clutch in, RPM to 3500, dump clutch, and mash the throttle = broken spindle number 6.

Just get under there and grab the half shaft. The end that goes into the wheel will wobble/flop around.

The swap is pretty basic, just nuts and bolts. It goes something like this:

-Remove wheel.
-Unbolt the dog bone from the knuckle and swing it down. On my car, I have to remove the monoleaf to do this, some cars I've worked on have been able to get away with the monoleaf in place.
-Unbolt the U-joint straps at the differential.
-Jiggle the knuckle around, put a jack under it, dink with it in such a manner as to allow the half shaft and broken piece of spindle will come out.
-Admire what you broke. Drink beer.
-Use a 36 MM socket and an impact gun to get the spindle nut off.
-Beat broken spindle shaft out of hub bearing with hammer.
-Admire what you broke. Drink beer.
-Install new spindle on half shaft from www.contemporarycorvette.com
-Or, order super spindles from www.summersbrothersracing.com
-The install is pretty much the opposite. Torque the spindle nut to 200.

I tried everything to keep from breaking them. Slipping the clutch, different tire and alignment combinations, cryo-treating them, installing a spool, new shocks, etc... Nothing worked. I finally swapped out the McLeod twin disk clutch in my car for a Center Force dual friction. The CF hits nothing like the McLeod, and thus far I haven't broken anything with it. I have the super spindles from www.summerbrothersracing.com but I haven't installed them yet.

EDIT- Everytime I broke one, it took out the ABS sensor as well. I finally quit replacing them, and I won't replace another one until I am sure the spindle breakage is done.

Impala Balko

Man I dump my clutch at 3500 rpms and the only thing I get is a sore neck and a best of 1.997 60's with still a ton of bogging down after the hook.

DCP

neat,

Did you order the SummerBros parts custom or did they make the C4 parts already (part numbers?).


David

Road Agent

rodj

"Use a 36 MM socket and an impact gun to get the spindle nut off."

If you don't have a gun , make sure you break the nut loose with the weight of the car on the wheel.
Some of us have needed 6ft of waterpipe on a bar to crack it; no chance once it is in the air.

0ski_dwn_it

If the wheel is not setting straight or flopping around as you say, then you broke the outter spindle for sure. There could be other damage elsewhere, but that is to be seen/found later.

You are now in the arena of breaking and it will NOT end until you reduce the power level your rear is seeing - you might get another 100 runs until something happens again or it could happen the very next time. That is the problem with these IRS setups the solution is what quickZilver explained above with the solid rear. Its the only way to bulletproof against these type failures.

Just be careful you are now aware that you are able to break stuff, a semi-fracture of an outter spindle and a hard shift at high speed, could be UGLY! I have had it happen off the line out about 20ft and let me tell you that you end up nearly in the other lane before you can even think about what is happening. Last time only one broke the car JUST missed the starting tree by inches. Its tough to stop a 3400lb car once it decides to go a certain direction unexpectedly!

Be careful.

neat

I don't think a solid rear is the only answer. Especially for a near stock power level car. Jesse pays to advertise on here (I don't) so it's hard for me to disagree with him. I'm going to be as cool as I can about this, no real mud slinging, just a couple honest answers from Jesse would be cool:

You suggested to me that you could build a 40 or 41 spline 12 bolt. Do you still think that's true?

How many cars with 12 bolts do you have experience with? You mention your car, and your Dad's chevelle all the time, any others? Anything that isn't a dedicated race car? Anything that sees more than 1500 miles a year?

Ever seen a powerful, full weight, stick shift car use a 12 bolt successfully? Especially one with Moser axles?

How do you address the ABS in later C4's?

You are suggesting that your rear, or another solid rear, is the only solution. That's a pretty bold statement, especially for a car making close to stock power levels. There are far more people making successful runs on the stock stuff than those breaking them.

The number of 12 bolt failures I've seen in F-bodies really discourages me from using your set up behind a stick car that makes power:

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showth...bolt+broken+12

(in this thread, post #5 a guy broke a 12 bolt posi unit with a STOCK M6 LS1 car) http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showth...bolt+broken+12

(this guy broke the carrier, ring, and pinion with a 440 RWHP LS1 car) http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showth...bolt+broken+12

You can pick apart any one of those scenarios, but my point should be clear that the 12 bolt you are touting is not the silver bullet for rear end problems. Especially when behind stick shift cars. Do your own research on the F-body forums and draw your own conclusions.

I have some other issues, but that should be a good start.

As far as the Summers Bros spindles, just call or E-mail them. They should know right away what you are talking about. If they don't, ask to speak with Raphael, he was the guy I dealt with. I'm pretty sure he dreams about these spindles after all the grief I gave him over them, lol.

Mr Mojo

I got a 1.93 on street tires without dumping the clutch.

0ski_dwn_it

At the end of the day each person has to answer the question what is right for their specific application - my solid rear setup is just another option in their tool box they can choose from.

wheeljo2

Update - I broke the left rear spindle and got a new one on order and headed this way should be back on the road by the weekend. Thanks for all the advice guys!!!!!!!

Demonic85

did you open the case to see if the rear was in good shape?