SuperFast80

Alright, this is my first complete engine teardown/rebuild so keep your snickering off-line. ;)

I managed to get the 454 to the point where I am left with block, connecting rods, pistons and crank. I unbolted the rods from the crank but I can't get the pistons out of the cylinders. Am I missing a step?

gearheadz

Take off the main & end caps, remove the crank, then remove pistons through the top or bottom. You should be able to push or pull them out by using the rod as a handle. If they're stubborn (which is not likely if the engine is well worn), squirt some oil in the bore & tap them down from the top with a piece of wood and a rubber mallet.

Mark


[Modified by mdsmith, 11:41 PM 12/2/2001]

ddn

Push harder from the bottom =)

Turbo-Jet

how bad of a ridge is there? are you you reusing the pistons/stock bore size? if not, push harder...

SuperFast80

I am not reusing the pistons and they seem to be really stuck in there. I used a mallet and a 2 x2 under them and they seem to be getting stuck right at the top of the piston.

The engine has been inactive for 15 years and i am going to do a 0.030 and new pistons. Maybe a little extra push helps? I just don't want to risk unforeseen damage - is there anything I should be worrying about?

427Hotrod

Feel the top of the cylinder bore for a "ridge" at the top. This is approx. 3/16"-1/4" from the top. There may be carbon in this area that is holding them in. If that is all it is, a little sandpaper and carb cleaner should remove it.

If there is an actual metal lip at the top, then you will have to remove it with a "ridge reamer". They can be rented or borrowed at many parts stores.

This ridge is left at the top as an unworn area of the original cylinder above the ring travel of the piston.

How many miles are on the engine?

Otherwise, they ought to come out with a few gentle taps. After you remove the rod cap and shove the piston to the top as far as possible, place a hammer handle down in there so that the end is resting in the area of the rod where the bearing goes. Use another hammer to tap on the end of the first one to knock piston out.

Be careful, or get a helper to catch piston as it comes out. Once it moves it will go fast!

Also make sure that you keep all rod caps with the rod they came off of. Removing the crank might give you a little more room, but I don't think they are coming out the bottom.


Jim

lbell101

If you have the caps off and the rod is not hanging up on the bottom of the cylinder, then it's hanging on the ridge. New pistons and thirty over - hit it harder!

bob

If the pistons don't come out easy there is probably lots of wear. If you are doing pistons any way, over the years there has probably been more damage done to blocks with ridge reamers than whacking the pistons out. You don't need the pistons and certainly don't need the rings and the block overbore will clean up the cylinders. My thought.

bob

Larry B.

You almost always need to use a ridge reamer at the top. Even the carbon build up (black ridge at top of each bore)will not alow the rings to go by

PatsLs1vette

BIGGER HAMMER,no just kdding like they said ridge reamer sounds lika ridge at the top youll need to cut it down and go 30 over and new pistons.

Tom454

If you use a ridge reamer as intended, you will not damage the bores. But- it is certainly possible. As you are cutting the ridge, stop often and remove the reamer to see how far you have cut. When the reamer starts to cut the wall below the ridge, this is the time to stop. Ridge reamers do not necessarily cut the exact same amount of material off the entire bore evenly. This is why you must keep an eye on the tools progress. I've never even tried to get big block pistons out the bottom. In 36 years of engine building, I've never had the need. I tried on some other engines, and this simply cannot be done on them... the pistons hit the block webbing. Don't currently have any big blocks torn down or I would try it. Also... on removing the crank before all of the pistons & rods are removed- this can be a difficult proposition because of rod interference when the rods get jammed between the crank and the cylinder case. As you rotate the crank to get to the next pair of rod caps, the previous rods bolts hit the crank and the case at the same time *on most engines*. Standard procedure is to remove the rods/pistons, then the crank. Standard assembly is to install the crank, then the rods/pistons.

Tips: To get as even a cut as possible, set up the block in your engine stand so that the bores are straight up. And... when you turn the reamer, be aware of the bias that you impart by using only your right (or left) arm. This can cause you to exert more force on one side of the bore than the other, and you end up with a sloppy, one sided cut. If/when the reamer jams (it will), don't force it. You will do damage to both the reamer and the bore. Remove the reamer, re-set-up, and start over. Use plenty of oil. Take minimal cuts- don't expect to remove the ridge in one pass, or with one set-up (adjustment) step.


[Modified by Tom454, 7:59 AM 12/3/2001]


[Modified by Tom454, 8:08 AM 12/3/2001]

john's '81 mouse

Quote: "Tips: To get as even a cut as possible, set up the block in your engine stand so that the bores are straight up. And... when you turn the reamer, be aware of the bias that you impart by using only your right (or left) arm. This can cause you to exert more force on one side of the bore than the other, and you end up with a sloppy, one sided cut. If/when the reamer jams (it will), don't force it. You will do damage to both the reamer and the bore. Remove the reamer, re-set-up, and start over. Use plenty of oil. Take minimal cuts- don't expect to remove the ridge in one pass, or with one set-up (adjustment) step."

These are great tips, Tom 454 is right on target!! These are tips that must be followed if you want to do the job properly and NOT cause unwanted engine block damage while cutting out the ridge.

vert2go89

go to your local auto parts store and buy a ridge reamer.they are not expensive and you can put the hammer away.

L71

ridge reaming is not the solution, my reamer is still new in the package and I've taken apart at least 40 rats, the problem is that the rust has literally welded the slugs to the cylinder walls. Once the slugs are out you'll find that there might be severe pitting on the walls and .030 may not clean it up so I hope you have not bought your slugs yet

71vettman

Ive striped down many 454s at the machine shop theat I worked at including my own. I never even saw a ridge reamer the entire time I worked there. Since your not using the pistons over you can hit them harder, they will come out. just be careful of the rods and crank and be sure not to get the rod caught on the bottom ridge of the cylinder casting. You can use a metal drift if nesecary to hit the piston out the top of the block.
gook luck

Phlash

I was also a mechanic for several years, and did use a reamer on occasion, but primarily on irrigation engines that ran 24/7 for 2 or more years. Most auto engines don't need it. However, I hope that you protected your crankshaft before using a hammer and wooden rod/board. I always put a couple of short pieces of 5/16 vacuum hose on the rod bolts before trying to drive the piston out. Sometimes you have to push the piston in a couple of times before getting it by the ridge of carbon or wear in the block. If there is carbon on it, you can always use some emery or sand paper on the ridge to remove it.

Phlash 72 BB Roadster :seeya

Tom454

I rebuild engines professionally.
I have been building engines for 36 years.
I owned and operated my own automotive machine shop with 7 bays.
People paid me for rebuilding engines... and still do. I'm not a weekend warrior.

I use a ridge reamer regularly.

I just finished both a Chevy 305 (.030) and Ford 302 (.030) and they BOTH required a ridge reamer to get the pistons out.

If the bores are rusty and there is no ridge, then a ridge reamer will not do you any good.
If there is a ridge, then you need a ridge reamer.

ALL machine shops use ridge reamers of one shape or another. If the bores are worn enough that there is a substantial ridge, there is no other way to remove the pistons.

If you have only rebuilt a few engines, then you can't judge the probability of needing a ridge reamer.
Having built as many as I have, I know from this professional experience a ridge reamer is a required tool for anyone that is serious about engine building.

Running an engine without adequate air filtration or with dirty oil will cause severe cylinder wall wear. ALL engines wear as they are used regardless of how well they are maintained. It is impossible for an engine to run and not have cylinder wall wear. You may not be able to feel it with your fingers, but it can be measured with the proper tools. When the wear approaches a few thousandths, you will begin to experience difficulty removing pistons. When it reaches .004 to .005, you will need to remove the ridge to get the pistons out. A ridge reamer is not the only way to remove the ridge, but it is the most common method.

I have removed pistons from engines that only had a slight (few thousandths) ridge without using a ridge reamer. More than that, the ridge must first be removed.

If you can hang up your fingernail when you run it across the ridge, you will probably need a reamer.
If you can feel a ridge, but your fingernail will ride across it easily, then you may not need to remove the ridge to get the pistons out.

L71

if a block has a ridge ,this implies that it needs a rebore ,which further implies new pistons, so why waste your time reaming when the worn slugs are garbage, whack them out. Just yo yo engine builders ream ridges to save the slugs then knurl them and reuse them in tapered bores, this is just a temporary fix not a PROPER engine build therefore good engine builders rarely use ridge reamers

427Hotrod

Take it for what it is worth, but I also did this stuff professionally for many years and am now an instructor. The ridge reamer is a viable tool. You DO NOT want to beat pistons out of a worn cylinder. You will destroy the rod and very likely destroy a cylinder wall. You DO want to remove the ridge to get pistons out if they don't come out easily. This in no way signals that the cylinder is now re-usable. It must still be mic'd. Most likely it is worn too bad to rebuild unless you are just doing a quicky thing.

The tool is just something to enable you to do the job properly without screwing up some hard parts.

Jim

Tom454

Every now and then I curse when I'm hitting my finger with a hammer. My daughter politely reminds me that people who curse are showing their lack of intelligence. Same goes for name calling. "Yo yo engine builders" ?? And in this case, an obvious sign of a lack of experience in building reliable high quality engines. 427Hotrod summed it up- you can/will do additional damage by forcing the pistons past a substantial ridge. It's not just the potentially useless pistons & rings, it's the rods as well. There is also a risk of cracking the block. This is simply the wrong and wreckless way to do the job.

"Good engine builders don't use ridge reamers?" Absolutely, categorically, totally misinformation. A sign of very little experience in this field. True, boring equipment can remove ridges as well, but if you are woking on your own engine, in your own garage, this is the tool to use to avoid excessive damage.

L71- I am willing to pit my experience and knowldege against yours any day- you name the arena. 36 years of engine building and not one single re-call says enough for me. So far, you have called me a "yo yo" and a poor engine builder. Let's all see what you can come up with next.

You are right about the knurling- I don't even own a piston knurler... never did. Knurling pistons and/or valve guides is a "Bubba" in my opinion. So I agree with you on that point.


[Modified by Tom454, 9:47 AM 12/11/2001]