don99vette

I have an 07 Black Z06 that I wetsanded using 1500, 2000, 2500, and 3000 grit 3M and Unigrit.
After spending many hours getting all the orange peel out, and I mean many hours, the doors were horrible, I started buffing using Meguiars Finer-Cut Cleaner with an orange Lake County CCS pad on a rotary. After doing a small section and nothing but sanding marks I moved up to the Medium-Cut Cleaner with orange Lake County pad and rotary. This was not meeting my expectations after all the sanding I had done.
Next, I moved to 3M Perfect-It 3000 compound with orange Lake County CCS pad and rotary which seemed somwhat better than the Meg's. Next was 3M Perfect-It 3000 Swirl Mark Remover and then 3M Perfect-It 3000 SE Swirl Eliminator. This stuff makes a mess, does a pretty good job but, I just didn't think I was getting the results I expected.
Next, I stepped up to Menzerna Super Intensive Polish (PO-83) with orange LC pad, Nano Polish (PO-106) with white LC pad, and Micro Polish (PO-85RD) with blue LC pad.
The SIP with an orange LC pad with rotary is better than any of the Meg's and 3M by far, hands down. With just the SIP, it is almost perfect and the Nano completes it. I'm using the Micro cause I bought it but see no additional benefit from it.
I am by far no expert having wetsanded and rotary buffed only two cars but the Menzerna blows away the other two brands I first tried. If you are on the fence of using Menzerna, maybe too expensive, whatever, do it and you will never look back.
BTW, I have no agenda at all with this and just want to pass along my experience with someone that may be looking for the same mirror finish I want and maybe save you a couple of bucks experimenting like I did.
I did not take any before pics since most of you that are reading on this forum know about the fine paint jobs we get on our Corvettes. When I am finished I will post some after pics. Thanks

gasboy

can't wait to see pictures.

agentf1

You should have given 3M 05093 or 06063 a try. I also found that if you start out buffing with a LC purple foamed wool cutting pad before going to foam pads it will save you a significant amount of time.

Any pics?

0Killrwheels@Autogeek

I too have found Menzerna to be much more user friendly than the 3M polishes and glazes. Cannot wait to see pics, and glad to hear another black ride is dressed well for the holidays !

don99vette

When I switched from Meg's to 3M I did use the 06063 but it did not meet the results I expected and maybe using with the orange LC pad was not the right combination but the Menz SIP and orange LC pad is most definitely right.
I have the whole line of Meguiars and 3M including the new Perfect-It 3000 Ultrafina SE and I see no reason to ever use those products again

0TH0001@properautocare.com

I'm suprised you where cutting paint with an orange pad. I would have grabbed compound and a full wool pad from the get go, to make sure all sanding marks are removed on the first two passes.

Also, Menzerna SIP caused the paint to "swell". It was designed for cermamic clear coats, and on non ceramic paints, according to Menzerna of Germany, the paint swells. This can cause the defects to appear as if they are gone, but they WILL come back.

If you can speak German, I highly suggest you read the Menzerna website. It is also the reason that Menzerna USA (from my understanding) did not want to import the SCR polishes to the US. However, there was the whole CMA debacle, where CMA was relabeling the products as "blackfire", so Menzerna brought the SIP/106ff over here.

It will be interesting to see you car in several month, esp. if you never used anything more agressive then an orange pad. I would imagine you are going to be very disappointed when the sanding scratches reappear.

Good luck though, and keep us updated!

FloydSummerOf68

wow...I got tired just reading about all the work you did!

Bet it looks good now

0TH0001@properautocare.com

106ff is a great finishing polish, but like the Menzerna SCR line, Menzerna of Germany has stated that it can cause non cermaic paints to swell.

Ultrafina, IMO, is a superior product because it doesn't contain fillers, so it is easier to wipe/wash off.

0Killrwheels@Autogeek

Not sure exactly where this rumor got started, but hear is Menzerna's official word locally:


Please allow me the opportunity to set the record straight regarding this thread. Menzerna polish does not swell a cured clear coat to temporarily hide swirls/haze/scratches, etc.

I am concerned that the origin of this idea appeared on a competitor’s forum under the topic “snake oil & other gizmo’s” with an obvious vested interest in raising concerns or doubts about the Menzerna product. It now migrates to this forum where Menzerna is sold and is stated as a “question” where it is “concluded” that it “may” cause swelling. Anyone with a basic understanding of polymers, automotive paint, or polishing would know this to be nonsense. I know of no other polish product that could be accused of swelling paint for the purpose of hiding defects.

No evidence has been provided to support this claim either in fact or theory. The collective experience of the forum members, coating engineers, automobile manufacturers (customers of Menzerna) and industrial paint users has been successful permanent paint defect repair.

If you want to test your conclusion, then pour some polish on an area to be polish and wait. If a chemical action is going to swell a clear coat intentionally, then you would not even need to turn on the buffer and the swirls would be gone.

Jeff Silver
MenzernaUSA

don99vette

TH0001 you have stated something I have never read anywhere, not on Autogeek, Autopia, or here. I'm not saying that it may not be true but this is the first on reading anything like this.
I was wondering, are you using mainly 3M compounds and polishes?
Also, I wonder what brand of pads you use? Something other than LC? Is it 3M?

Here is what LC website says for their orange pad:
States that it is a cutting pad.
Apply moderate swirl removers and light compounds. Examples are XMT Intermediate Swirl Remover, Menzerna Intensive Polish, and Meguiars #9Swirl Remover.

As I first stated in my post, I am no pro but that does mean I don't have the knowledge on what is required to wetsand and buff a car.

Is there somewhere I can read a published report on Menzerna causing the paint to swell as you suggest

0TH0001@properautocare.com

I should watch how I state things, esp. on the internet, because it is hard to articulate. I said something that sounded as fact, when indeed I was opening a conversation (which re-reading my post, I can see where I did not express this at all).

I should have stated that I heard... blah blah blah. That said, Menzerna definetly "fills" imperfections on certain paints. I have proven this to numerous people on autopia.

I have also "proven" infront of a group of people that optimum polish features heavy fillers, simply by wiping the area down with alcohol.

I know what LC says about orange pads, such as I know what a lot of compaines say about their products.

I'm only here to help, and I would definetly suggest using a wool pad and a heavy cut polish to remove all swirl marks. I have seen Menzerna fill for several weeks (actually several months), so please keep us updated on the paint and if anything comes back.

don99vette

I have been doing an IPA wipedown and it has not revealed anything to show the sanding scratches have been filled. Now, if it takes several months as you have suggested then I will pass this info along. I have not read anywhere that someone has seen this happen.

TOGWT

Another Internet myth is born - It started out as "The solvents used in Menzerna polishes cause a clear coat paint to swell and hide imperfections" and it newest reiteration is " Menzerna SIP caused the paint to "swell". It was designed for cermamic clear coats, and on non ceramic paints, according to Menzerna of Germany, the paint swells"

Sometimes I wonder what thought process is used to propagate something so unscientific that it could be even remotely factual? One type of paint (CeramiClear) doesn't swell but others do?
But there again paint and leather require feeding, diluting an acid makes it safer, silicone is harmful to paint, rubber etc and paint needs to breath are all along the same lines. But what do I know, I believe in Santa Claus

Thank you Killerwheels for posting Menz rebuttal.
I hope that the statement by Jeff Silver of MenzernaUSA will put an end to it

don99vette

If in fact, the Menzerna has made my black paint swell, it sure made it swell like a mirror finish. In addition, it has swelled perfectly level too. I wonder how they can get it to swell so level like that. It sure is the best swelling product I have put on my car.

gmblack3

I have used 106ff for over a year on more then a few cars. It has a bit more cutting power then 3M Ultra Fina, but on softer clears you will be better off using the 3M Ultra Fina.

I think that Todd would agree with me that in our business we can't afford to have cars showing defects again in 3-6 months down the road. So even if I did use 106FF on a vette, I would still use Ultra Fina as a final polishing step.

I am glad we have professional detailers out there like Todd and Ryan (from NH) that will test products to no end. These guys fully polish at least 3 cars a week.

don99vette

Would you recommend 3M Ultrafina as a finishing polish instead of Menzerna PO85RD polish and if so, why? Since I do have both.

gmblack3

I have the P085RD as well, but its been a while since I have used it. Once I used it on my wifes BMW right after 106ff and I could not tell a difference in gloss. From what I can remember I think that Ultra Fina has a little bit more cut then 085, but I would have to use them side by side to be sure.

A recent detail on a 07 Porsche Carrera, I used Ultra Fina (blue CCS pad) after the 106ff (white CCS pad.) I was having issues with the 106ff (bogging down my metabo rotary) on such a soft clear. Plus it was dark out and I needed to be 100% sure that I would finish hologram free which I am 100% sure I can do with Ultra Fina. It "appeared" to me and the client who watched the entire detail that the finish looked better after the Ultra Fina then it did after the 106FF. I would think that 99% of people would be of been happy with the finish after 106FF.

Also if you have IP, mix about 30% Ultra Fina in with it in a small bottle. Use it with a white polishing pad on cars that you want to try and one step.

Dan1

Ive experienced that too, but only because it was too cold for it to break down properly.

don99vette

With my little bit of experience with both the Ultrafina and the PO85RD, the only differance I see is the Ultrafina slings alot more product and it is not something you can work very long. I have only used the Ultrafina with a rotary, haven't tried it with an oribital. I have not tried a side by side comparision between the two.

gmblack3

I find that once I get the pad primed, I can work Ultra Fina for a good amount of time. I think longer then 106ff. Can't recall for sure how long the working time was of 085. I don't recall Ultra Fina having an excess amount of product sling as compared to other polishes.