C1 Traction Master Bar question???????
11-28-2007, 10:07 PM
#21
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2023 C1 of the Year Finalist - Modified
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Not being a mechanical or design engineer, but rather an old time, old school hot rodder, all I can say is that AFTER installing the original style TM bars, EVERYTHING changed-------------------for the better!
I don't routinely do hard, sustained burnouts or regularly abuse the drive train, BUT, when I do, there is now ZERO wheel hop and the bite (even with street radial tires) is noticeably better!!!!!!!!!
I like'um!
I don't routinely do hard, sustained burnouts or regularly abuse the drive train, BUT, when I do, there is now ZERO wheel hop and the bite (even with street radial tires) is noticeably better!!!!!!!!!
I like'um!
11-29-2007, 08:28 AM
#22
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Provided the TM bars and the original struts are mounted in the proper geometry, they should form a parallelogram that should easily provide for up and down movement in an arc along the spring arc travel route.
I think your biggest problem is figuring out the correct mounting point for the front of the TM bars since that seems to be the only question, provided all else is the same.
As long as the original strut and the TM bar are mounted in the proper place, with one being longer than the other, the suspension should travel in the spring travel arc you correctly described but still do it in unison.
I still think that the strut rods along with the TM bars will act as "a poor man's 4 link" as described by someone else above.
I think your biggest problem is figuring out the correct mounting point for the front of the TM bars since that seems to be the only question, provided all else is the same.
As long as the original strut and the TM bar are mounted in the proper place, with one being longer than the other, the suspension should travel in the spring travel arc you correctly described but still do it in unison.
I still think that the strut rods along with the TM bars will act as "a poor man's 4 link" as described by someone else above.
11-29-2007, 08:52 AM
#23
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[QUOTE=Plasticman;1562946326]4th. You wonder why the manufacturers did not do this (rather than add the poor compromise radius rod), and I can only think they were concerned with road clearance (with the traction bar hanging down a substantial amount).
The factory radius rods were put on there to control the axle housing under braking forces (wheel hop) not acceleration. That's why they're on top of the axle for the same reasons you gave for the Traction Masters to go under the axle to control the axle on acceleration. Otherwise, I agree with your logic and your conclusion.
The factory radius rods were put on there to control the axle housing under braking forces (wheel hop) not acceleration. That's why they're on top of the axle for the same reasons you gave for the Traction Masters to go under the axle to control the axle on acceleration. Otherwise, I agree with your logic and your conclusion.
11-29-2007, 10:24 AM
#24
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[QUOTE=MikeM;1562950934]
Mike,
That makes sense.
Thanks,
John
4th. You wonder why the manufacturers did not do this (rather than add the poor compromise radius rod), and I can only think they were concerned with road clearance (with the traction bar hanging down a substantial amount).
The factory radius rods were put on there to control the axle housing under braking forces (wheel hop) not acceleration. That's why they're on top of the axle for the same reasons you gave for the Traction Masters to go under the axle to control the axle on acceleration. Otherwise, I agree with your logic and your conclusion.
The factory radius rods were put on there to control the axle housing under braking forces (wheel hop) not acceleration. That's why they're on top of the axle for the same reasons you gave for the Traction Masters to go under the axle to control the axle on acceleration. Otherwise, I agree with your logic and your conclusion.
That makes sense.
Thanks,
John
11-29-2007, 10:30 AM
#25
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Provided the TM bars and the original struts are mounted in the proper geometry, they should form a parallelogram that should easily provide for up and down movement in an arc along the spring arc travel route.
I think your biggest problem is figuring out the correct mounting point for the front of the TM bars since that seems to be the only question, provided all else is the same.
As long as the original strut and the TM bar are mounted in the proper place, with one being longer than the other, the suspension should travel in the spring travel arc you correctly described but still do it in unison.
I still think that the strut rods along with the TM bars will act as "a poor man's 4 link" as described by someone else above.
I think your biggest problem is figuring out the correct mounting point for the front of the TM bars since that seems to be the only question, provided all else is the same.
As long as the original strut and the TM bar are mounted in the proper place, with one being longer than the other, the suspension should travel in the spring travel arc you correctly described but still do it in unison.
I still think that the strut rods along with the TM bars will act as "a poor man's 4 link" as described by someone else above.
While I do not agree with you (as I explained before, the leaf spring does not act like a straight bar - it's length changes as it is compressed under load), I am going to try them both ways.
As for the front mount location, that is fairly simple. Bar must be mounted in the rear, axle/wheels at normal ride hgt. with normal wgt., and then bring bar/mount up and weld. Actually doing this is tad harder due to having no room to weld while the vehicle is on the floor. Also, it negates the use of my lift!
Thanks,
John
11-29-2007, 10:33 AM
#26
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Not being a mechanical or design engineer, but rather an old time, old school hot rodder, all I can say is that AFTER installing the original style TM bars, EVERYTHING changed-------------------for the better!
I don't routinely do hard, sustained burnouts or regularly abuse the drive train, BUT, when I do, there is now ZERO wheel hop and the bite (even with street radial tires) is noticeably better!!!!!!!!!
I like'um!
I don't routinely do hard, sustained burnouts or regularly abuse the drive train, BUT, when I do, there is now ZERO wheel hop and the bite (even with street radial tires) is noticeably better!!!!!!!!!
I like'um!
Thanks for the pictures and the encouragement!
John
11-29-2007, 10:42 AM
#27
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I often wondered why one couldn't use the ends of the 60-62 rear sway bar itself to serve as the "through bolts" that hold the rear of the TM bar into it's spring plate. Bushings or bearings could be made to match up the inner-outer diameters, the geometry works, it would provide a much cleaner, tighter package without the secondary spring plate, spacers, longer u-bolts, lost ground clearence etc. 
Thanks,
Plasticman
11-29-2007, 11:26 AM
#28
rebuilt with an extra spring under the top spring. It's almost as long as the the top spring. Then removed the bottom short spring. Have never
had any wheel hop. The tires smoke and squeel, but the car is straight
and smooth. Have not tried it with my new Eaton posi. May make a difference.
Ray
11-29-2007, 11:31 AM
#29
Pro
Plasticman,
Thanks for the very thorough explanation, I understand a little better now how all the this works together. Through the years I've had so many different combos, sway bar no sway bar, posi non posi, different springs, bias ply and radials and such that I've forgotten how they all worked! The Traction Masters really interest me though.
Thanks for the very thorough explanation, I understand a little better now how all the this works together. Through the years I've had so many different combos, sway bar no sway bar, posi non posi, different springs, bias ply and radials and such that I've forgotten how they all worked! The Traction Masters really interest me though.
11-29-2007, 12:02 PM
#30
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Plasticman,
Thanks for the very thorough explanation, I understand a little better now how all the this works together. Through the years I've had so many different combos, sway bar no sway bar, posi non posi, different springs, bias ply and radials and such that I've forgotten how they all worked! The Traction Masters really interest me though.
Thanks for the very thorough explanation, I understand a little better now how all the this works together. Through the years I've had so many different combos, sway bar no sway bar, posi non posi, different springs, bias ply and radials and such that I've forgotten how they all worked! The Traction Masters really interest me though.
Once the bars are mounted, a "results" thread will be forthcoming.
Thanks,
Plasticman
