[Z06] Michellin PS2s as good at F1 Supercars in cold?
11-01-2007, 08:03 PM
#1
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Michellin PS2s as good at F1 Supercars in cold?
I'm planning on (quickly) replacing my stock Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercars on my '02 Z06 with Michellin Pilot Sport 2s. I just noticed the inside edge wearing severely on the fronts, so for my driving, I'll get the camber adjusted to regular (non-Z06) specs.
My question: Has anyone here driven Michellin PS2s in colder weather. I know that neither tire is intended for that, but I drove the F1s all last winter (when dry) and while I had to be careful with the throttle, they did much better than I feared that they might. So I'm just hoping to get comparable cold weather performance out of the Michellins.
Please reply quickly if you get this, as I'll need to order tomorrow.
Terry Quinn
Illinois
My question: Has anyone here driven Michellin PS2s in colder weather. I know that neither tire is intended for that, but I drove the F1s all last winter (when dry) and while I had to be careful with the throttle, they did much better than I feared that they might. So I'm just hoping to get comparable cold weather performance out of the Michellins.
Please reply quickly if you get this, as I'll need to order tomorrow.
Terry Quinn
Illinois
11-01-2007, 10:28 PM
#2
Pro
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define cold
i'm in so. cal, so cold to me is 65 degrees
but i can say yes, they do drive better in colder weather (or when not heated)
with my f1's, i could spin the tires a bit by dropping it from 4th gear to 3rd
i'm in so. cal, so cold to me is 65 degrees
but i can say yes, they do drive better in colder weather (or when not heated)
with my f1's, i could spin the tires a bit by dropping it from 4th gear to 3rd
11-02-2007, 07:26 AM
#4
Intermediate
Thread Starter
11-02-2007, 09:30 PM
#5
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Nov 2004
Location: It's more of a 'town'. Iowa (we make E85 here--Oh yes, you are welcome!)
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I drove my 2001 Z06, with PS2s (about half tread), late into last fall/early winter, here in north central Iowa.
They seemed to handle okay, but during aggressive 'starts' from a dead stop, or slow roll, the car wanted to wheel hop as the cold tires just couldn't grab the cold pavement (car was still mostly stock back then). The car never felt UNSAFE, it was just frustrating trying to quickly accelerate around town in 1st and 2nd gears.
Interstate on-ramps are still 'do-able', as long as you avoid instant, violent, WOT shots at lower speeds.
I recently switched over to 18"/19" with the wider C6Z GY EMT F1s, and really didn't gain much performance over the Michelins.
I highly recommend the PS2s, or any performance tire from Michelin, for an everyday/all season Z06.
They seemed to handle okay, but during aggressive 'starts' from a dead stop, or slow roll, the car wanted to wheel hop as the cold tires just couldn't grab the cold pavement (car was still mostly stock back then). The car never felt UNSAFE, it was just frustrating trying to quickly accelerate around town in 1st and 2nd gears.
Interstate on-ramps are still 'do-able', as long as you avoid instant, violent, WOT shots at lower speeds.
I recently switched over to 18"/19" with the wider C6Z GY EMT F1s, and really didn't gain much performance over the Michelins.
I highly recommend the PS2s, or any performance tire from Michelin, for an everyday/all season Z06.
11-03-2007, 02:07 PM
#7
I wouldn't buy either one of them. The PS2's are way way to expensive for what they are. Kuhmo MX's make a great street tire that last longer than either one of those two and cost almost half the price. Just something to consider.
11-03-2007, 03:05 PM
#8
Drifting
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You're going to get a vast array of tire opinions, obviously. The PS2 is an excellent tire. I'm using them myself at the moment - a rare defection from the F1 Supercar that I usually use for street duty. Some people don't need this much tire as they do not extract the cornering performance it provides, and they are well advised to save the money and buy a harder compound tire that lasts longer and gives them what they need. If you're looking for the most cornering grip short of an R-compound, you have to go with the F1 Supercar of the PS2... you definitely get what you pay for.
11-07-2007, 10:32 PM
#9
Intermediate
Thread Starter
First impressions, Michellin PS2 v.s. Goodyear F1 SC
I just replaced my original Goodyear F1 SCs with Michellin PS2s. I also reduced the front camber from what it was from factory (-1 to -1.2 degrees) to 0 degrees. I did this because I'd worn off the insides of the front tires to the cords as reported elsewhere in the Forum. I wanted them set to -0.25 degrees, but there was a mixup. If after a month I'm getting too much outside wear, the alignment guy said he'd redo them to give me a little neg camber. I left the rears at -0.6 degrees, as they were wearing evenly.
So here is my initial impressions:
Michellin do not appear as wide. About the same tread width, but it curls up the side, unlike the Goodyears which have that classic GY "squareness." Actual treadwidth about the same.
Michellins do not feel as "crisp" as the Goodyears did for quick, but not at the limit, maneuvers. However, I did alter the camber (probably not a factor), and the Goodyears were down to about 4/32nds, whereas the Michs are new. So the deep tread might be removing some of the crispness.
I'd say the noise levels with the Michellins are about the same as the Goodyears. Others have reported Michellins as quieter. I think they sound different, but not quieter. I had a noise wall in for both.
It was 26 deg F here this morning. Both the Michellins and the Goodyears struggle to grip at low temps, but I would say that the Michellins gripped a little better in the cold.
Michellins seem to pick up and throw more gravel than the Goodyears. Again, maybe the deep tread depth.
The Michellins were actually a little less expensive here in Illinois than the Goodyears.
The Michellins have HUGE rain grooves . . . almost 3/4 inch wide on the rears. I haven't tried them in the rain, but expect they would hydroplane less. OTOH, there is less rubber on the ground with those wide grooves. In contrast, the widest groove on the Goodyears was about 3/8 inch.
BTW, I brought the two rear SCs home. They are worn evenly and have about 1/2 tread left. Might be good for someone who autocrosses. Do people ever want to purchase used tires like these?
Terry
So here is my initial impressions:
Michellin do not appear as wide. About the same tread width, but it curls up the side, unlike the Goodyears which have that classic GY "squareness." Actual treadwidth about the same.
Michellins do not feel as "crisp" as the Goodyears did for quick, but not at the limit, maneuvers. However, I did alter the camber (probably not a factor), and the Goodyears were down to about 4/32nds, whereas the Michs are new. So the deep tread might be removing some of the crispness.
I'd say the noise levels with the Michellins are about the same as the Goodyears. Others have reported Michellins as quieter. I think they sound different, but not quieter. I had a noise wall in for both.
It was 26 deg F here this morning. Both the Michellins and the Goodyears struggle to grip at low temps, but I would say that the Michellins gripped a little better in the cold.
Michellins seem to pick up and throw more gravel than the Goodyears. Again, maybe the deep tread depth.
The Michellins were actually a little less expensive here in Illinois than the Goodyears.
The Michellins have HUGE rain grooves . . . almost 3/4 inch wide on the rears. I haven't tried them in the rain, but expect they would hydroplane less. OTOH, there is less rubber on the ground with those wide grooves. In contrast, the widest groove on the Goodyears was about 3/8 inch.
BTW, I brought the two rear SCs home. They are worn evenly and have about 1/2 tread left. Might be good for someone who autocrosses. Do people ever want to purchase used tires like these?
Terry
11-07-2007, 11:30 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
PS2's or GY-SC-plus shipping and mounting-
I can get a set of Toyo Proxes for the street for $690 AND another set of Nitto R2's for $940 for summer and track time....
Sure with shipping/mounting on both plus the difference it comes out to $400 plus extra - but I get 2 sets of tires...
I do not drive the car to the limit of the current GY-SC on the street, and on the track while the GY's are OK - the R2's are supposed to be a world of difference
Yes- you need a extra set of wheels, but you can pick those up for $450 to $550 used and if you take care of them- they will always be worth about what you paid for them.
What do you think about the Proxes for street duty ?
11-07-2007, 11:36 PM
#11
Le Mans Master
Thanks for the comparison notes. Please try to update us in a month or so. I'm interested in the 2 used rear tires you have. Any idea on what the tread depths are and what you would want for them? I plan on doing some road course events in the future.
Thanks,
Scott
Thanks,
Scott
11-07-2007, 11:39 PM
#12
Melting Slicks
I just replaced my original Goodyear F1 SCs with Michellin PS2s. I also reduced the front camber from what it was from factory (-1 to -1.2 degrees) to 0 degrees. I did this because I'd worn off the insides of the front tires to the cords as reported elsewhere in the Forum. I wanted them set to -0.25 degrees, but there was a mixup. If after a month I'm getting too much outside wear, the alignment guy said he'd redo them to give me a little neg camber. I left the rears at -0.6 degrees, as they were wearing evenly.
So here is my initial impressions:
Michellin do not appear as wide. About the same tread width, but it curls up the side, unlike the Goodyears which have that classic GY "squareness." Actual treadwidth about the same.
Michellins do not feel as "crisp" as the Goodyears did for quick, but not at the limit, maneuvers. However, I did alter the camber (probably not a factor), and the Goodyears were down to about 4/32nds, whereas the Michs are new. So the deep tread might be removing some of the crispness.
I'd say the noise levels with the Michellins are about the same as the Goodyears. Others have reported Michellins as quieter. I think they sound different, but not quieter. I had a noise wall in for both.
It was 26 deg F here this morning. Both the Michellins and the Goodyears struggle to grip at low temps, but I would say that the Michellins gripped a little better in the cold.
Michellins seem to pick up and throw more gravel than the Goodyears. Again, maybe the deep tread depth.
The Michellins were actually a little less expensive here in Illinois than the Goodyears.
The Michellins have HUGE rain grooves . . . almost 3/4 inch wide on the rears. I haven't tried them in the rain, but expect they would hydroplane less. OTOH, there is less rubber on the ground with those wide grooves. In contrast, the widest groove on the Goodyears was about 3/8 inch.
BTW, I brought the two rear SCs home. They are worn evenly and have about 1/2 tread left. Might be good for someone who autocrosses. Do people ever want to purchase used tires like these?
Terry
So here is my initial impressions:
Michellin do not appear as wide. About the same tread width, but it curls up the side, unlike the Goodyears which have that classic GY "squareness." Actual treadwidth about the same.
Michellins do not feel as "crisp" as the Goodyears did for quick, but not at the limit, maneuvers. However, I did alter the camber (probably not a factor), and the Goodyears were down to about 4/32nds, whereas the Michs are new. So the deep tread might be removing some of the crispness.
I'd say the noise levels with the Michellins are about the same as the Goodyears. Others have reported Michellins as quieter. I think they sound different, but not quieter. I had a noise wall in for both.
It was 26 deg F here this morning. Both the Michellins and the Goodyears struggle to grip at low temps, but I would say that the Michellins gripped a little better in the cold.
Michellins seem to pick up and throw more gravel than the Goodyears. Again, maybe the deep tread depth.
The Michellins were actually a little less expensive here in Illinois than the Goodyears.
The Michellins have HUGE rain grooves . . . almost 3/4 inch wide on the rears. I haven't tried them in the rain, but expect they would hydroplane less. OTOH, there is less rubber on the ground with those wide grooves. In contrast, the widest groove on the Goodyears was about 3/8 inch.
BTW, I brought the two rear SCs home. They are worn evenly and have about 1/2 tread left. Might be good for someone who autocrosses. Do people ever want to purchase used tires like these?
Terry
I like those tires and am starting to roadcourse. PM me your price. If I reply you'll know I want them.
Thanks.
11-08-2007, 11:09 AM
#13
Drifting
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The Michellins have HUGE rain grooves . . . almost 3/4 inch wide on the rears. I haven't tried them in the rain, but expect they would hydroplane less. OTOH, there is less rubber on the ground with those wide grooves. In contrast, the widest groove on the Goodyears was about 3/8 inch.
11-08-2007, 04:42 PM
#16
Racer
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I got these tires a while back, and while they do seem to grip well and maybe have slightly less road noise, I too noticed that they did not feel as "crisp" as you put it. My tire guy that mounted them said Michelins have a thinner softer sidewall, and that will make the rear of the car seem to spring out then snap back during a quick move, especially at higher speeds. I loved with the GY SC tires how I could jerk the wheel while on the interstate, then straighten back up, and it's like the car was on solid gokart tires! These PS2s don't give the same effect. The back end feels like it's on big granny car tires with huge sidewalls now.
...OK so maybe I'm exaggerating slightly, but it is a noticeable difference in feel, and my SC's were over 2 years old and were about 1/3 tread. Other than that small observation, they do seem to grip well. Though I rarely drive it in the rain, I'll be curious to see how they do in rain, as well as the upcoming cold weather here in Arkansas. I wish I had a tire that has the "crispness" of the SC, but lower noise and and lower price of the PS2 or other various tires. I wonder how the Khumos or Nittos do with this "crispness" we speak of. I guess it has to do with how square the tire is and sidewall stiffness.
...OK so maybe I'm exaggerating slightly, but it is a noticeable difference in feel, and my SC's were over 2 years old and were about 1/3 tread. Other than that small observation, they do seem to grip well. Though I rarely drive it in the rain, I'll be curious to see how they do in rain, as well as the upcoming cold weather here in Arkansas. I wish I had a tire that has the "crispness" of the SC, but lower noise and and lower price of the PS2 or other various tires. I wonder how the Khumos or Nittos do with this "crispness" we speak of. I guess it has to do with how square the tire is and sidewall stiffness.
11-08-2007, 05:03 PM
#17
Drifting
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Have the PS2's on all 4 ..rears are over 2yrs old now (20,000+miles) and they still,repeat still kick butt! Yes they are somewhat harder to control on the colder temps(live in Queens,NY) but compared to F1 tires they flat out beat'em. I drive very aggressive and they handle very well once u get them warmed up. In the rain, I have yet to loose control,now take it I drive fast - yes, but I also take in consideration of the road conditions too! Yes they are expensive, but these cars deserve the best, don't they? Remember you now own a Z06, not a Honda 
just my 0.2
just my 0.2
11-08-2007, 09:20 PM
#19
11-08-2007, 09:24 PM
#20
The Michellins have HUGE rain grooves . . . almost 3/4 inch wide on the rears. I haven't tried them in the rain, but expect they would hydroplane less. OTOH, there is less rubber on the ground with those wide grooves. In contrast, the widest groove on the Goodyears was about 3/8 inch.
Terry