MARKUS_P

What do you think about it?
I´m just looking for some little extra HP, just when I need it.
So Nitro seems the way to go for me.
I´m not looking for a huge improvement here, it should be a mild setup, and because the system is hidden in the aircleaner nobody would make troubles...
Policemen usually make troubles when your engine isn´t the way it was stock.
At least here in Austria, because of the insurance and tax.

My question is would you use this setup on a freshly rebuilt 355 cui
2 BOLT
engine?
I´d adjust the system to ~100 HP max., do you think my engine can handle this? What are the critical parts when using Nitro?
Have heared that you have to retard the timing and perhaps use colder sparkplugs, is that true?
Any info appreciated

ZD75blue

here are a few ideas... if you go with the 100 and like it you'll wanna try 150 and so on, so why not go ahead and put forged pistons and crank and arp bolts all over, a nos camshaft and a set of nice valves and be able to run 200 - 250

just a thought, if you havent run the engine yet you could always sell off those parts.

A comment on the NOS, there are a few good books out and about on the subject, i would suggest that you pic one up. From what i have read a stock engine is fine up until 100-125 then you start stressing parts and building up heat.

You have to retard the timing 2 degrees and you need to have it running rich in order to make power

guys if i've got any stuff in here thats not quite right please correct me

ZD :seeya

norvalwilhelm

With only 100HP shot you do NOT need to retart the timming, no special fuel system , no forged pistons, do not run it rich to make up for nitrous. Tune the motor like a none nitrous engine then add no more then 100HP. It will live. I even run my jets close to square. That is the same size for nitrous and gas. If you want to feel safe just increase the gas slightly over the nitrous. Don't get carried away and if 100 feels good go to 150. Don't do it. Rules change when more then 100HP is added.
This extra 100HP will feel like alot more. !50HP will not make that much difference. The torque goes way up.
Warn! Nitrous is addicting

ylose

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I have heard that one before......I need a new addiction....I'm looking to get some of these fumes soon !!!

Norval is right....V8 stock engines/mild build can handle 75-125 HP ....after that its time to re-enforce the interior.

MotorHead

I think that's a cheater system for hiding it at a drag race only good for one or two runs. Avoid this setup

gearheadz

Wrong Motorhead.....the TopShot is a full blown N2O system minus the undercarb plate. The plate is replaced by gas and N20 nozzles mounted on the air cleaner stud. The nozzle unit is contained inside the cleaner and the nozzles spray directly into the carb mouth. Comes with N2O bottle, lines, etc. just like the other NOS kits. Its good for up to 150HP. Real slick. A recent test in CHP I think showed a 99HP gain off the 100HP setting.




MARKUS_P, if you do decide to go w/N2O, I agree with Norval, don't get seduced by the 100HP gain and immediately jump to 150HP jets. Most motors will live fine on 100 shots but at 150, it starts getting trickier.

Mark


[Modified by mdsmith, 10:49 AM 11/16/2001]

MARKUS_P

So it´s a good setup?
I saw an N20 system from Edelbrook too, about 360 $ or so.
It´s a standard system that uses an induction plate....
I guess it´s time now to contact my engine builder again and to clearify all the components he used to build up my engine.
Hopefully I´ll get all the detailes :rolleyes:, some companies think there setup is a secret :yesnod:

mdsmith, are you sure that the kit includes the bottle and everything?
Where did you read this? In the summit cataloque stands nothing about it....
I wish it would be a complete setup.......


[Modified by MARKUS_P, 11:58 PM 11/18/2001]

MARKUS_P

Motorhead, now that you can see it, what da ya think about it?

MARKUS_P

Hello again, I just found the NOS homepage..

May I ask a dumb question?
They are talking about an fuel/nitrous mixture which is sprayed into the carb mouth (top shot system).
Heres the silly question: If there´s a fuel/nitro mixture I have to route the fuel up to the mixing nozzle of the NOS kit.
That means I´ve two fuel lines. One to the carb as always and one to the Nos kit mixing nozzle. Pressure is always on this mixing nozzle, so if the NOS kit is activated (don´t even know how...) I guess a valve or the mixing nozzle itself allows getting the fuel in contact with the N20 and then right into the carb.
Is this the way it works?
Man, I think I don´t even have basic knowledge concerning nos...
But I wanna have one :D
Maybe somebody can explain the different systems to me? If you´ve any time left :cheers:
Oops, forgot to add the link to the system I´m interested in
http://www.nosnitrous.com/HiOctn/Pro...densystem.html


[Modified by MARKUS_P, 12:50 AM 11/19/2001]

QuickVet

i dont like the looks of that top shot system. i just keep thinking about that one nice backfire while that stuff is on :eek: :nono:

MARKUS_P

Vetteboy, that´s indeed something to think about....
But shouldn´t the NOS guys have been thinking about this possibility while they constructed it??

norvalwilhelm

There seems to be alot of confusion on how the system works. There are 2 solenoids in the system. One for fuel and one for nitrous. When the nitrous system is activated the 2 solenoids open allowing fuel and nitrous to flow to the metering jets. The gas requires a Tee in the fuel line. One side going to the carb and one side going to the gas solenoid. Normal fuel pressure is used. In normal driving the fuel solenoid is always shut so no fuel is getting to the fuel spray jet. The nitrous is hooked directly from the bottle to the solenoid. The system usually has 2 on switches. The solenoids are wired together to a common 30 or 40 amp relay. This relay is activated by the 2 switches. The first switch is an arming switch mounted on the dash or somewhere. The second switch is a micro switch mounted on the carb that is activated by full throttle position only.
To arm the system you open the nitrous bottle and turn on the 1st arming switch inside the car after thin any full throttle activated the micro switch that closes the relay that in turn activates the solenoids and the gas and nitrous are sprayed into the motor.
Sometime window switches are added that turn the system on a certain rpms under full throttle and off again before hitting the rev limiter. On my nitrous mustang the window switch allows the nitrous to open at 3000rpm and shuts down at 5800 and the rev limiter hits at 6000. As soon as the shift is made the rpm drops below the 5800 and the nitrous is back on.
Backfires can happen but not normally under full throttle.
Hope this helps. It is not that complicated

topless68

Markus,

Trust me when I say this. NOS is addictive as hell b/c it is the easiest, and laziest form of HP w/o doing major renovations. Your 100 hp system is fine, but once you've opened Pandora's box, the speed deamon in you is on the hunt. In fact, it already is, you just don't know it.

My experiences with N20. The 100 system is fun, and you will see some interesting gains, but that fulifillment will only last so long. Anything over the 100 - 150 jetting, BEWARE. You are playing in a whole different league. A motor over the 100 - 150 range will have to be 'built for' N20.

Let me explain. With a bigger system, your fuel system will have to be totally re-built. You will have to have two seperate fuel pumps (electric at that) one running the motor and one for the system, most likely with steel braids, regulators for both sides, wiring the pumps accordingly....etc. Second, when you get into the 150 range, you WILL, notice I didn't say might, WILL start to break a whole lot of parts, especially if you're squeezing it right off the line. Parts that you never dreamed of breaking.... ie u-joints. Of course when you're hitting the button off the line there's the traction thing, I won't even get into that.

I have also found that motors built as an afterthought to run w/o the bottle is a mistake, for eg...high compression, large diameter exhaust, open plenum intakes...the list goes on. I have found in my experiences that the juice likes low comp motors, smaller diameter exhaust systems, and other mods that would conversely slow your times down if you were not hitting the button. Don't expect to build a big bad a$% with high compression motor and expect to strap the N2O to it and expect it to perform, b/c it won't.

Some other posts have suggested to use the bottle intermittently during a run. You will see your best performance and thus times if you build the system to get you out of the hole. A whole lot of juice in the higher RPM's bands will not do your car the justice it will if you let it get you thru your 60 ft time and the 1/8 mile, that's when you win or lose a race. You can actually design systems to 'dump in' from the start and to taper down as you make your pass, that is a whole other thread.

Last thing, I started out with my 'racer' (Camaro w/ a 455 Pontiac) with a little nitrous set-up, and ended up customizing my own jets, lines, spray bars and the whole list. Needless to say I burnt several pistons before I got it right, but when I did... :yesnod:

So you see....there is no end to the happy juice! ;)


[Modified by topless68, 8:17 AM 11/19/2001]

MotorHead

I personally wouldn't put iNOS on a new engine unless I built it for that purpose from the beginning, get some miles on the motor first then put the NOS on. Just my 2 cents :D


[Modified by MotorHead, 10:28 AM 11/19/2001]

gearheadz

The only difference in the plate & the Top Shot is the delivery location. As Norval explained very well, the solenoids and switches regulate the timing of the actual event. The fact that the Top Shot delivers fuel+N2O at the carb mouth versus at the intake mouth may actually be advantageous in certain situations because the mixture may have more time & turbulence to distribute itself more equally among the cylinders especially with a dual plane (divided plenum) intake. As for backfires, 1) they shouldn't happen anyway if timing & valves are set correctly, 2) you will have the same outcome with a direct port fogger, plate or top shot so it doesn't matter the delivery means and 3) most N2O related backfires/explosions occur because of excess & unburned N2O that has been trapped within the intake and it is suddenly ignited along with the gas mixture causing an explosion. If properly setup with solenoids and switches, again as Norval explained, these things don't happen.

Mark

gearheadz

Tell that to Pat Musi, Tony Christian and all the other top NMCA drivers/cars that live and die with 15:1 compression, N2O motors and run 6.60 1/4mi. ETs in full, steel bodied door slammers with mufflers. :D

N2O does not increase or boost the intake charge (and constant cylinder pressure) like turbos and supercharging do. They "fool" the motor into responding as if it is "bigger" and higher compressed than it really is. So higher static motor compression is not necessary or desired because excessive cylinder pressures would be destructive and/or detrimental to making horsepower. N2O is a totally different type power adder. It is merely a fuel additive that dramatically increases the burn rate of fuel (hence the importance of fuel pressure) that causes the engine to make more horsepower when injected.

With that said, I disagree with topless68. High compression is not detrimental when using N2O. N2O is designed to increase the burn rate of fuel at a fixed rate regardless of the engines compression through jetting. That's how vendors can claim fixed HP increment gains that are routinely verified through media testing. A properly setup, high compression motor with more non-nitrous HP than a low compression motor will ALWAYS make more HP and perform better head to head with the addition of N2O than a low compression motor with N2O.

Mark


[Modified by mdsmith, 1:02 PM 11/19/2001]

MARKUS_P

Thanks for all your explanations, seems that Nos is dangerously addicting :reddevil hehe
Yeah, I can feel the speed devil in me, but I will never go over 100 HP. That´s a promise. At least with this engine.
I plan to drive the car first for a couple of kilometers and then switch over to nitrous. I still have to break in this engine.....
After all it looks like that this system is OK for someone like me.
I´ll print out this post for future reference, and when I order this system I´ll let you know....

norvalwilhelm

Normal air is approximately 20% oxygen and the rest nitrogen. Nitrous N20 is approximately 40% oxygen with the balance nitrogen and a little sulfur to give you a headache if you try sniffing it. It has a temperature of around -60. When used in combustion this 40% oxygen is liberated that's why the engine can suddenly burn so much hotter of better. The intake charge is cooled and twice the oxygen content is supplied. That is also why the system needs it's own metered fuel supply.

MasterDave

Dang it!! I've wanted to do NOS for a year at least, but did not because of the hood clearance issue, I simply could not install the spacer block and close the hood at the same time. I called the local Performance shop I've been dealing with and they say this system has been out for a long time!! If so, they should have let me know, I've only asked them about alternatives about a hundred times. Is that true? I could not find it in my 6 month old Summit catalogue, but Summit is sending me their new one and they say it's in there. Man, I woulda been using this stuff for a long time if I would have known!! :yesnod: OK, OK, I know.....breathe.....yeah, that's better. :) If it's as it seems in the pic in a previous post, I WILL be squirtin' soon!! :lol: NOS that is..... :cheers:

MARKUS_P

When you buy it - and install it, let us know.....
Awaiting some pics - and a description how it feels to add ~100 HP.....;)
I´m very interested ......