Heart of my Beast Grenaded !! Pics of the Aftermath !!
09-09-2007, 03:36 PM
#1
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Heart of my Beast Grenaded !! Pics of the Aftermath !!
More Pics added to page 3
Well as some of you know my 388 siezed up. Finally got some room in the shoppe so yesterday got her towed up and removed the motor and brought her home. I took some pics as I pulled off a lot of the accessories at home before we towed her and some interesting findings.
The good news is the rebuild will be bigger and better. The experience I've had the first time building a motor taught me a lot, and I will do MANY many things differently this time to make sure all goes better. I couldn't be happier with getting a chance to do this all over again.
As many of you have also read from previous posts. A while back i got a bad valve lash setting and found one rocker nut loose. I was pretty upset about it and why the shoppe didn't want to find out why there were metal bits in the head and said nothing will get damaged.
Fast forward to some old pics and pics from last night.
3 Pictures from the night after having my valve lash set. What I found after i removed the valve cover after hearing ticking noises.* 800 KM ago **
Clearest pic i got after I removed the intake duct off the throttle body yesterday morning.
What I found when I removed the valve cover yesterday morning. SAME head and SAME valve (intake cyl #1)
Fast forward to now. Looks like new heads will be needed. Rods will be changed pistons are going to be better anyways. I'm kinda hoping my crank is fine to reuse the big dollar sucker and go from there. Cam will be a different solid roller this time with probably over .600 lift and a different firing order.
I'm excited !
Well as some of you know my 388 siezed up. Finally got some room in the shoppe so yesterday got her towed up and removed the motor and brought her home. I took some pics as I pulled off a lot of the accessories at home before we towed her and some interesting findings.
The good news is the rebuild will be bigger and better. The experience I've had the first time building a motor taught me a lot, and I will do MANY many things differently this time to make sure all goes better. I couldn't be happier with getting a chance to do this all over again.
As many of you have also read from previous posts. A while back i got a bad valve lash setting and found one rocker nut loose. I was pretty upset about it and why the shoppe didn't want to find out why there were metal bits in the head and said nothing will get damaged.
Fast forward to some old pics and pics from last night.
3 Pictures from the night after having my valve lash set. What I found after i removed the valve cover after hearing ticking noises.* 800 KM ago **
Clearest pic i got after I removed the intake duct off the throttle body yesterday morning.
What I found when I removed the valve cover yesterday morning. SAME head and SAME valve (intake cyl #1)
Fast forward to now. Looks like new heads will be needed. Rods will be changed pistons are going to be better anyways. I'm kinda hoping my crank is fine to reuse the big dollar sucker and go from there. Cam will be a different solid roller this time with probably over .600 lift and a different firing order.
I'm excited !
Last edited by 5abivt; 09-13-2007 at 03:50 PM.
Sorry man!
09-09-2007, 07:15 PM
#5
Melting Slicks
You are more man than most. I'm glad you are looking at this as a chance to buid something bigger and better. Take your time and I hope your next engine performs even better. 
09-09-2007, 07:41 PM
#6
Le Mans Master
Man, am I sorry to see what happened to your engine.
Looks like an oil ring spacer ring in the intake and at least one broken beehive spring. Am I right on that much?
Can this be yet another failure caused by the beehives?
What RPM was the engine at when this occurred? Any indication before-hand that something was amiss?
I, we'd, definitely be interested in learning about the final autopsy. I'm running a 388 LT1 too. Since the snake bit you, it could bite me as well.
Thanks
Jake
Looks like an oil ring spacer ring in the intake and at least one broken beehive spring. Am I right on that much?
Can this be yet another failure caused by the beehives?
What RPM was the engine at when this occurred? Any indication before-hand that something was amiss?
I, we'd, definitely be interested in learning about the final autopsy. I'm running a 388 LT1 too. Since the snake bit you, it could bite me as well.
Thanks
Jake
09-09-2007, 08:14 PM
#7
Melting Slicks
09-09-2007, 08:27 PM
#8
Racer
Member Since: Oct 2006
Location: Churchville 18966 Pennsylvania
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Arrrrrrggggg
GEEZ MAN, THAT SUCKS!!!!
The sound must have been sickening. Glad you are going to hop right back on the horse and rebuild. Gives us perspective first time builders some one to learn from. Sorry for your experience, but, Gotta love the forum.
The sound must have been sickening. Glad you are going to hop right back on the horse and rebuild. Gives us perspective first time builders some one to learn from. Sorry for your experience, but, Gotta love the forum.
09-09-2007, 08:43 PM
#9
Cool Hand Luke of W MI
thanks for sharing the pics...hope you get up and running quickly!
09-09-2007, 09:50 PM
#12
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Thanks for the replies 
There were many things that contributed to a continuing downward spiral in performance with this motor. When this happend, it was getting on an on-ramp to the freeway at 20 km/hr or so and when i stepped on it in 1st gear I gradually got on the throttle as not to blow the tire off.. when the on-ramp straghtened out i got on it and she pulled nice and hard and locked up at 7k rpm. there wasn't much noise. just a little jerk and I saw the service engine light pop so I stomped the clutch and pulled right over.
I'll mention this again that this isn't a blame post. I have a great relationship with the builder and they are working with me on this. having said that, I think the pictures show what i believe happened. After having a loose rocker and finding metal pieces in the head i was afraid of this happening. To ME, i believed since the moment it happened... the retainer split, dropped the valve, crunched the piston.. through the cylinder wall and piston bits right up the runner into the manifold and possibly into other cylinders. I knew from the moment it happened there was damage beyond the cyl wall as the motor was huffing and puffing white smoke out the left exhaust.
Coincidence the same rocker nut that had a nut come off after a valve job split a retainer and grenaded my motor ? Maybe we'll never know.
back to the good news. looks like i have to find another set of LT4 heads and start the process again. The experience of building a motor the first time was a valuable experience. I'll keep you guys posted as this comes along and definitely with more of the motor pics
There were many things that contributed to a continuing downward spiral in performance with this motor. When this happend, it was getting on an on-ramp to the freeway at 20 km/hr or so and when i stepped on it in 1st gear I gradually got on the throttle as not to blow the tire off.. when the on-ramp straghtened out i got on it and she pulled nice and hard and locked up at 7k rpm. there wasn't much noise. just a little jerk and I saw the service engine light pop so I stomped the clutch and pulled right over.
I'll mention this again that this isn't a blame post. I have a great relationship with the builder and they are working with me on this. having said that, I think the pictures show what i believe happened. After having a loose rocker and finding metal pieces in the head i was afraid of this happening. To ME, i believed since the moment it happened... the retainer split, dropped the valve, crunched the piston.. through the cylinder wall and piston bits right up the runner into the manifold and possibly into other cylinders. I knew from the moment it happened there was damage beyond the cyl wall as the motor was huffing and puffing white smoke out the left exhaust.
Coincidence the same rocker nut that had a nut come off after a valve job split a retainer and grenaded my motor ? Maybe we'll never know.
back to the good news. looks like i have to find another set of LT4 heads and start the process again. The experience of building a motor the first time was a valuable experience. I'll keep you guys posted as this comes along and definitely with more of the motor pics
09-09-2007, 09:54 PM
#14
Le Mans Master
My preliminary thoughts are:
8000 rpms on single springs is a receipe for failure. The pistons are always chasing the exhaust valve. If the spring cannot close that valve soon enough, the piston catches up and bang.
This can happen repeatedly at high rpms, so the valve(s) can take numerous hits. Once the valve bends, it will no longer close tightly, so the piston has a field day.
Each time the piston hits the mangled valve it sustains damage too. Ring grooves get closed solid and then the rings seize in the piston -Game Over.
If the valve head breaks off the carnage begins. Once things break off, you can find driver's side parts all the way over on the driver's side of the engine. Either in the plenum/manifold or on the top of the opposite side piston.
At that engine speed, broken parts fly around so fast it's unbelievable. I once had one of my 2 bolt BB engines let go in the water at 9200 and upon examination of what was left, looked like some magic fairy magically moved driver's side parts to the passenger side of the engine. All that was thanks to Skip Hamilton, his lead foot and no rev limiter.
These are just my initial thoughts. I REALLY would like to read up on what you find. I KNOW you don't want to walk this road again, so you'll take the time to find out the source of the failure.
Jake
8000 rpms on single springs is a receipe for failure. The pistons are always chasing the exhaust valve. If the spring cannot close that valve soon enough, the piston catches up and bang.
This can happen repeatedly at high rpms, so the valve(s) can take numerous hits. Once the valve bends, it will no longer close tightly, so the piston has a field day.
Each time the piston hits the mangled valve it sustains damage too. Ring grooves get closed solid and then the rings seize in the piston -Game Over.
If the valve head breaks off the carnage begins. Once things break off, you can find driver's side parts all the way over on the driver's side of the engine. Either in the plenum/manifold or on the top of the opposite side piston.
At that engine speed, broken parts fly around so fast it's unbelievable. I once had one of my 2 bolt BB engines let go in the water at 9200 and upon examination of what was left, looked like some magic fairy magically moved driver's side parts to the passenger side of the engine. All that was thanks to Skip Hamilton, his lead foot and no rev limiter.
These are just my initial thoughts. I REALLY would like to read up on what you find. I KNOW you don't want to walk this road again, so you'll take the time to find out the source of the failure.
Jake
09-09-2007, 10:39 PM
#15
Safety Car
Thread Starter
My preliminary thoughts are:
8000 rpms on single springs is a receipe for failure. The pistons are always chasing the exhaust valve. If the spring cannot close that valve soon enough, the piston catches up and bang.
This can happen repeatedly at high rpms, so the valve(s) can take numerous hits. Once the valve bends, it will no longer close tightly, so the piston has a field day.
Each time the piston hits the mangled valve it sustains damage too. Ring grooves get closed solid and then the rings seize in the piston -Game Over.
If the valve head breaks off the carnage begins. Once things break off, you can find driver's side parts all the way over on the driver's side of the engine. Either in the plenum/manifold or on the top of the opposite side piston.
At that engine speed, broken parts fly around so fast it's unbelievable. I once had one of my 2 bolt BB engines let go in the water at 9200 and upon examination of what was left, looked like some magic fairy magically moved driver's side parts to the passenger side of the engine. All that was thanks to Skip Hamilton, his lead foot and no rev limiter.
These are just my initial thoughts. I REALLY would like to read up on what you find. I KNOW you don't want to walk this road again, so you'll take the time to find out the source of the failure.
Jake
8000 rpms on single springs is a receipe for failure. The pistons are always chasing the exhaust valve. If the spring cannot close that valve soon enough, the piston catches up and bang.
This can happen repeatedly at high rpms, so the valve(s) can take numerous hits. Once the valve bends, it will no longer close tightly, so the piston has a field day.
Each time the piston hits the mangled valve it sustains damage too. Ring grooves get closed solid and then the rings seize in the piston -Game Over.
If the valve head breaks off the carnage begins. Once things break off, you can find driver's side parts all the way over on the driver's side of the engine. Either in the plenum/manifold or on the top of the opposite side piston.
At that engine speed, broken parts fly around so fast it's unbelievable. I once had one of my 2 bolt BB engines let go in the water at 9200 and upon examination of what was left, looked like some magic fairy magically moved driver's side parts to the passenger side of the engine. All that was thanks to Skip Hamilton, his lead foot and no rev limiter.
These are just my initial thoughts. I REALLY would like to read up on what you find. I KNOW you don't want to walk this road again, so you'll take the time to find out the source of the failure.
Jake
If that is in fact what happened, I believe there are 2 things that could have contributed. 1 is possible reduction in spring pressure over an extended period. i mean hey I used to cruise around at 7k rpm in 3rd gear every time i was on the highway
The sound was just way too cool !the other was reduction in spring pressure from being overheated. There was a bad pigtail on the relay that was used for the electric water pump. more than a few occasions the car has overheated. I chased this problem many many times replacing relays etc but the odd time I would catch my temp rising a lil too high. I think overheating may have killed the springs some and possibly done much more damage elsewhere.
09-09-2007, 10:41 PM
#16
Safety Car
Thread Starter
I have already decided when the engine let go that my next heads WILL definitely have the BEST springs possible for the combination and they will NOT be beehives or singles 
09-09-2007, 11:11 PM
#19
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Oil temp never got too hot. In fact 99% of the time it was too cool. Not sure if it wa a combo of synthetic oil and the canton pan but I wish it ran a bit hotter most of the time.
Under load (wot) id would creep up slowly and only once when it neared the hot zone (while racing a few bikes ) I got in 5th gear and the lower rpms dropped the temp real fast.
Under load (wot) id would creep up slowly and only once when it neared the hot zone (while racing a few bikes
) I got in 5th gear and the lower rpms dropped the temp real fast.
09-09-2007, 11:12 PM
#20
Le Mans Master
So, you're saying that you believe that you dropped a valve. Okay, if that's the case, then you've got to figure out what caused that to happened.
Let's take a look at the valve train; List what you were running.
Start with the cam and work your way UP.
Jake
Let's take a look at the valve train; List what you were running.
Start with the cam and work your way UP.
Jake