Electric Fuel Pump
08-12-2007, 02:52 PM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
Electric Fuel Pump
Call me a quiter but replacing mechanical fuel pumps bite!
I had a leak from one of the fittings on my fuel pump (carb side) so I replaced all the fuel lines and changed out a brass fitting. After putting everything together, my carb isn't getting any gas.
My bet is that the pushrod slipped down when I was re-installing the fuel pump.
I'm going to give it another shot tonight but I'm considering moving to electric fuel pump.
I've searched a few posts and found that these should be installed towards the tank since they push better than suck. Is there any recommendations where to mount & wire these (i.e. next to the tank between the sending unit and gas line).
If I install it up front below the generator, I was going to do the negative to ground and the positive to the positive side of the ignition coil.
The fuel pump is 2.5 - 4.5 PSI which should be good for a basic 350.
Any recommendation, heck - I'll settle for insults, are appreciated.
Jim
I had a leak from one of the fittings on my fuel pump (carb side) so I replaced all the fuel lines and changed out a brass fitting. After putting everything together, my carb isn't getting any gas.
My bet is that the pushrod slipped down when I was re-installing the fuel pump.
I'm going to give it another shot tonight but I'm considering moving to electric fuel pump.
I've searched a few posts and found that these should be installed towards the tank since they push better than suck. Is there any recommendations where to mount & wire these (i.e. next to the tank between the sending unit and gas line).
If I install it up front below the generator, I was going to do the negative to ground and the positive to the positive side of the ignition coil.
The fuel pump is 2.5 - 4.5 PSI which should be good for a basic 350.
Any recommendation, heck - I'll settle for insults, are appreciated.
Jim
08-12-2007, 03:52 PM
#2
Team Owner
Member Since: Oct 2000
Location: Washington Michigan
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Why bother with the hassle, plumbing, wiring, isolated mounting, relays, safety shutoffs, and noise of an electric fuel pump? 50 million of these engines ran just fine with mechanical fuel pumps.
You definitely can NOT power it from the coil - you won't have enough juice left for the ignition system to function; the pump needs a dedicated and fused source of ignition-switched power, and must be relay-operated to take the load off any switches.
You definitely can NOT power it from the coil - you won't have enough juice left for the ignition system to function; the pump needs a dedicated and fused source of ignition-switched power, and must be relay-operated to take the load off any switches.
08-12-2007, 04:03 PM
#3
Melting Slicks
Why bother with the hassle, plumbing, wiring, isolated mounting, relays, safety shutoffs, and noise of an electric fuel pump? 50 million of these engines ran just fine with mechanical fuel pumps.
You definitely can NOT power it from the coil - you won't have enough juice left for the ignition system to function; the pump needs a dedicated and fused source of ignition-switched power, and must be relay-operated to take the load off any switches.
You definitely can NOT power it from the coil - you won't have enough juice left for the ignition system to function; the pump needs a dedicated and fused source of ignition-switched power, and must be relay-operated to take the load off any switches.
08-12-2007, 04:14 PM
#4
Tech Contributor
If it's any consolation, I bent 2 fuel pump pushrods on my 62 in less than 5 years - both due to improper fuel pump installation by the moron installer (me)
08-12-2007, 04:18 PM
#5
Safety Car
08-12-2007, 04:25 PM
#6
Le Mans Master
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A little over halfway down this web page, http://www.corvetteforum.net/classic...e/index5.shtml
you will see a pic of my Purolator pump and NAPA inline filter (mounted on an old engine mount for noise insulation) hooked up in the rubber hose from the tank.
At the bottom of that web page is a link to a wiring diagram that shows how to hook up a relay for the pump, AND on the same line a link to a picture of the relay and the fuse.
you will see a pic of my Purolator pump and NAPA inline filter (mounted on an old engine mount for noise insulation) hooked up in the rubber hose from the tank.
At the bottom of that web page is a link to a wiring diagram that shows how to hook up a relay for the pump, AND on the same line a link to a picture of the relay and the fuse.
08-12-2007, 04:47 PM
#7
Safety Car
If you do go with an electric pump, DO NOT install it in series with the original mechanical pump! When the diaphram fails (as it surely will), it will tend to fill the crankcase of the engine with fuel if the seal on the shaft is bad. Remove the original pump and install a block-off plate. That being said, I agree with others that said to keep the mechanical pump. They work well and last longer than most electric pumps.
Regards, John McGraw
Regards, John McGraw
08-12-2007, 05:07 PM
#8
Drifting
For your application, I also agree with all from above. Especially with regards to the relay and electrical needs. Also you would need a filter and shut off so that you can service the filter. How would you cut the pump into the system? Cut and use neoprene lines? Very dangerous. I do not see why an mechanical pump and about 30 minuets labor should not solve your problem. why go thru all that work an expense?
If you still want to proceed, here are some pictures.
If you still want to proceed, here are some pictures.
08-12-2007, 05:11 PM
#9
Race Director
mine is on the frame, rear of my 61. in front of tire.(since 94)
with all the reports of mech. pump failures lately an e carter is better imo.
at 4.5 amps no relay is needed.
i use an oil PSI safety switch.
with all the reports of mech. pump failures lately an e carter is better imo.
at 4.5 amps no relay is needed.
i use an oil PSI safety switch.
08-12-2007, 06:36 PM
#10
Racer
Thread Starter
Hey Guys,
I tried the long-bolt holding the pushrod up trick and, while it worked, the fuel-pump still does not.
I removed the hose from the sending unit and it is dry as a bone so it looks like the pump, while working before, may be shot now. Everything else looks fine; the pushrod stayed up during installation.
I much rather stick with mechanical since it is less change (as JohnZ says so eloquently) and much more common for my application. My previous post was written with lots of frustration.
My current fuel pump has a spring from the tip of the rocker arm (where the pushrod contacts) to the housing. When I look at other mechanical fuel pumps, I do not see this spring. Is this a design change or something functional?
Jim
I tried the long-bolt holding the pushrod up trick and, while it worked, the fuel-pump still does not.
I removed the hose from the sending unit and it is dry as a bone so it looks like the pump, while working before, may be shot now. Everything else looks fine; the pushrod stayed up during installation.
I much rather stick with mechanical since it is less change (as JohnZ says so eloquently) and much more common for my application. My previous post was written with lots of frustration.
My current fuel pump has a spring from the tip of the rocker arm (where the pushrod contacts) to the housing. When I look at other mechanical fuel pumps, I do not see this spring. Is this a design change or something functional?
Jim
08-12-2007, 07:04 PM
#11
Race Director
It's interesting to see others have crappy luck with mechanical pumps too. I'm done with AC Delco and Car Quest pumps. I installed a Carter today and it I have a problem with it an Electrical Carter is going on.. Dave
08-12-2007, 08:26 PM
#12
Racer
Thread Starter
Hey youwish2Bme,
I think this is probably more on me than the pump. The first time I tried it, I used the "grease" method and the pushrod probably fell out since it takes forever to get those bolts snug against the block due to the location & shape of the pump.
The second time, I tried the "grease" method again to no luck. The third time, I was finally able to get the "small bolt" off from the front of the block with the use of a large breaker bar (a new addition to my tool collection) and inserted a bolt to finally stop the pushrod from falling.
Between the three attempts maybe the pump gave up the ghost.
Looks like I'll try a new pump but I'm curious on how the spring differs on my pump versus ones that I have seen in the store. My pump has a spring that extends from the rocker arm to the housing while others don't have that.
P.S. Happy birthday and I love the pic!
Jim
I think this is probably more on me than the pump. The first time I tried it, I used the "grease" method and the pushrod probably fell out since it takes forever to get those bolts snug against the block due to the location & shape of the pump.
The second time, I tried the "grease" method again to no luck. The third time, I was finally able to get the "small bolt" off from the front of the block with the use of a large breaker bar (a new addition to my tool collection) and inserted a bolt to finally stop the pushrod from falling.
Between the three attempts maybe the pump gave up the ghost.
Looks like I'll try a new pump but I'm curious on how the spring differs on my pump versus ones that I have seen in the store. My pump has a spring that extends from the rocker arm to the housing while others don't have that.
P.S. Happy birthday and I love the pic!
Jim
08-13-2007, 12:11 PM
#13
Burning Brakes
If you are referring to the gas tank sending unit (there should be no other sending unit anywhere in the gas line) then you probably should first try filling the tank with gas before you do anything else.
08-13-2007, 07:13 PM
#14
Racer
Thread Starter
ViperMike,
Yes..I was referring to the tank sending unit. After cranking the engine for a while, I thought I would check the hose directly connected to the sending unit to see if there would be some progress from the pump sucking the gas from the tank.
Having not done this before, I'm not sure if it takes only a few seconds of cranking the engine for the pump to work its magic or if it takes a lot longer. Any insight?
The tank is 3/4 full but I'm sure there is probably air in the gas lines since I have replaced all of the rubber pieces.
Jim
Yes..I was referring to the tank sending unit. After cranking the engine for a while, I thought I would check the hose directly connected to the sending unit to see if there would be some progress from the pump sucking the gas from the tank.
Having not done this before, I'm not sure if it takes only a few seconds of cranking the engine for the pump to work its magic or if it takes a lot longer. Any insight?
The tank is 3/4 full but I'm sure there is probably air in the gas lines since I have replaced all of the rubber pieces.
Jim
08-13-2007, 07:21 PM
#15
Race Director
Hey youwish2Bme,
I think this is probably more on me than the pump. The first time I tried it, I used the "grease" method and the pushrod probably fell out since it takes forever to get those bolts snug against the block due to the location & shape of the pump.
The second time, I tried the "grease" method again to no luck. The third time, I was finally able to get the "small bolt" off from the front of the block with the use of a large breaker bar (a new addition to my tool collection) and inserted a bolt to finally stop the pushrod from falling.
Between the three attempts maybe the pump gave up the ghost.
Looks like I'll try a new pump but I'm curious on how the spring differs on my pump versus ones that I have seen in the store. My pump has a spring that extends from the rocker arm to the housing while others don't have that.
P.S. Happy birthday and I love the pic!
Jim
I think this is probably more on me than the pump. The first time I tried it, I used the "grease" method and the pushrod probably fell out since it takes forever to get those bolts snug against the block due to the location & shape of the pump.
The second time, I tried the "grease" method again to no luck. The third time, I was finally able to get the "small bolt" off from the front of the block with the use of a large breaker bar (a new addition to my tool collection) and inserted a bolt to finally stop the pushrod from falling.
Between the three attempts maybe the pump gave up the ghost.
Looks like I'll try a new pump but I'm curious on how the spring differs on my pump versus ones that I have seen in the store. My pump has a spring that extends from the rocker arm to the housing while others don't have that.
P.S. Happy birthday and I love the pic!
Jim
The 3/8th 2.5" bolt in the front of the block is a blessing that a lot of people don't know about. However I think that is starting to change with the forum.
It's good to add to your tool collection.. I still don't have enough tools and I have 3 large boxes slam full of tools.
As for how long does it take to prime a dry fuel pump? I would say anywhere from 10-30 seconds of cranking so it just depends. Also the spring has been present on all of the pumps that I've ever seen so I'm not sure why you wouldn't have one. Dave
08-13-2007, 11:31 PM
#16
Drifting
Member Since: Mar 2005
Location: Iowa
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Call me a quiter but replacing mechanical fuel pumps bite!
I had a leak from one of the fittings on my fuel pump (carb side) so I replaced all the fuel lines and changed out a brass fitting. After putting everything together, my carb isn't getting any gas.
My bet is that the pushrod slipped down when I was re-installing the fuel pump.
I'm going to give it another shot tonight but I'm considering moving to electric fuel pump.
I've searched a few posts and found that these should be installed towards the tank since they push better than suck. Is there any recommendations where to mount & wire these (i.e. next to the tank between the sending unit and gas line).
If I install it up front below the generator, I was going to do the negative to ground and the positive to the positive side of the ignition coil.
The fuel pump is 2.5 - 4.5 PSI which should be good for a basic 350.
Any recommendation, heck - I'll settle for insults, are appreciated.
Jim
I had a leak from one of the fittings on my fuel pump (carb side) so I replaced all the fuel lines and changed out a brass fitting. After putting everything together, my carb isn't getting any gas.
My bet is that the pushrod slipped down when I was re-installing the fuel pump.
I'm going to give it another shot tonight but I'm considering moving to electric fuel pump.
I've searched a few posts and found that these should be installed towards the tank since they push better than suck. Is there any recommendations where to mount & wire these (i.e. next to the tank between the sending unit and gas line).
If I install it up front below the generator, I was going to do the negative to ground and the positive to the positive side of the ignition coil.
The fuel pump is 2.5 - 4.5 PSI which should be good for a basic 350.
Any recommendation, heck - I'll settle for insults, are appreciated.
Jim
08-14-2007, 12:37 AM
#17
Burning Brakes
ViperMike,
Yes..I was referring to the tank sending unit. After cranking the engine for a while, I thought I would check the hose directly connected to the sending unit to see if there would be some progress from the pump sucking the gas from the tank.
Having not done this before, I'm not sure if it takes only a few seconds of cranking the engine for the pump to work its magic or if it takes a lot longer. Any insight?
The tank is 3/4 full but I'm sure there is probably air in the gas lines since I have replaced all of the rubber pieces.
Jim
Yes..I was referring to the tank sending unit. After cranking the engine for a while, I thought I would check the hose directly connected to the sending unit to see if there would be some progress from the pump sucking the gas from the tank.
Having not done this before, I'm not sure if it takes only a few seconds of cranking the engine for the pump to work its magic or if it takes a lot longer. Any insight?
The tank is 3/4 full but I'm sure there is probably air in the gas lines since I have replaced all of the rubber pieces.
Jim
Last edited by Vipermike; 08-14-2007 at 12:40 AM.
08-14-2007, 01:43 PM
#20
Racer
Thread Starter
Thanks folks,
I bought a hand vacuum pump to make sure the line is good. I agree with Jupiter60, nothing should pour from the sending unit since it is located above the tank; the pump needs to suck it out. I'll give the vacuum pump a try hopefully tonight.
Paul67,
Thanks for the pic. Thats what I expect to see from other fuel pumps. I was looking at some "generic" ones from a well-known parts store but none of theirs had that spring. If needed, I'll probably look at some basic Carter pumps at Summit; based on some previous posts, it looks like they have a good reputation for fuel pumps.
Thanks again,
Jim
I bought a hand vacuum pump to make sure the line is good. I agree with Jupiter60, nothing should pour from the sending unit since it is located above the tank; the pump needs to suck it out. I'll give the vacuum pump a try hopefully tonight.
Paul67,
Thanks for the pic. Thats what I expect to see from other fuel pumps. I was looking at some "generic" ones from a well-known parts store but none of theirs had that spring. If needed, I'll probably look at some basic Carter pumps at Summit; based on some previous posts, it looks like they have a good reputation for fuel pumps.
Thanks again,
Jim