G5x3 Cam only Dyno Results + 51 peak hp
07-27-2007, 11:27 PM
#1
Tech Contributor
Thread Starter
G5x3 Cam only Dyno Results + 51 peak hp
Had a G5x3, .040 cometic gaskets and an underdrive pulley installed by Horsepower Sales in Pompano (HPSFLORIDA) here on the forum. As usual guys, great job, zero issues.
I fretted for months about using such a large cam 1. fearing loss of low end torque and 2. bad drivability on my daily driver.
The dyno sheet below shows my G5x3 cam vs. boltons only vs. stock (stock was my buddy's identical car).
As it shows, my concern for loss of low end torque was unfounded - I actually gained 8 ft-lbs of torque at 3200, but I did lose 6 ft-lbs at 4000, so overall not bad and my torque peak is 18 ft-lbs higher. Peak HP is 51 higher. You can feel these differences. I think the .040 Cometic gasket helped a lot to keep my low end torque reasonable.
I am EXTREMELY pleasantly surprised how drivable this car is. I self tune but I'm a newbie... so I bought a mail order tune from Charlie @ RPM Motors Inc. here on the forum for $150. Best money I spent, he did a great job. Fueling was spot on - we were surprised at that. I spent a week tweaking my VE and MAF and I have my LTFT's at 3 at idle 0-1 at cruise which is great for a big cam. It starts hot & cold, runs, idles, never stalls and barely bucks (only at 1100 in 6th). I've tuned LS1 computers - the LS2 computer is so much faster and so much easier to tune. I'm so glad I didn't get a smaller cam now that I know how easy it is to tune the LS2.
Edit: Here's a video of my car (the convertible) and my buddy's on the dyno. In the beginning you can hear my cutouts open, then closed. They are much quieter when closed than the video indicates, the mike increased its gain. It is really quiet when closed. The cutouts are on closed on this dyno run - note this run was the first baseline run before tune tweaks. The engine in the end of the video is my buddy's, I don't have a FAST.
Here's a dyno with the cutouts open, we ran out of tape with the good camera.
I've since lowered the idle to 750.
Here's the dyno sheet.
UPDATE 5-4-08 after 10 months of living with the cam, I still love it. I would not if I had loud exhaust but stock mufflers plus cutouts is a great combo. It's so loud with the cutouts open...no way I could stand all that noise anymore. I've (knocks wood) had zero problems and the car has never died in this entire time. Always starts. I love that LS2 computer with HP tuners. I track all my gas on a spreadsheet and I've lost 2.0 mpg from the cam. Tanks with any highway mileage are still 19-20 but pure city driving in stop and go with a lot of idling can be 16-17. My best track times in my sig are kind of misleading...my best bolt on time was nearly a fluke as I only did that once, breaking 11's was reasonably rare bolt on only due to the incessant heat and humidity down here year round. Now it's a solid 11.8 car all the time running easy, and I can get 11.6's if traction is there pretty easily.
I fretted for months about using such a large cam 1. fearing loss of low end torque and 2. bad drivability on my daily driver.
The dyno sheet below shows my G5x3 cam vs. boltons only vs. stock (stock was my buddy's identical car).
As it shows, my concern for loss of low end torque was unfounded - I actually gained 8 ft-lbs of torque at 3200, but I did lose 6 ft-lbs at 4000, so overall not bad and my torque peak is 18 ft-lbs higher. Peak HP is 51 higher. You can feel these differences. I think the .040 Cometic gasket helped a lot to keep my low end torque reasonable.
I am EXTREMELY pleasantly surprised how drivable this car is. I self tune but I'm a newbie... so I bought a mail order tune from Charlie @ RPM Motors Inc. here on the forum for $150. Best money I spent, he did a great job. Fueling was spot on - we were surprised at that. I spent a week tweaking my VE and MAF and I have my LTFT's at 3 at idle 0-1 at cruise which is great for a big cam. It starts hot & cold, runs, idles, never stalls and barely bucks (only at 1100 in 6th). I've tuned LS1 computers - the LS2 computer is so much faster and so much easier to tune. I'm so glad I didn't get a smaller cam now that I know how easy it is to tune the LS2.
Edit: Here's a video of my car (the convertible) and my buddy's on the dyno. In the beginning you can hear my cutouts open, then closed. They are much quieter when closed than the video indicates, the mike increased its gain. It is really quiet when closed. The cutouts are on closed on this dyno run - note this run was the first baseline run before tune tweaks. The engine in the end of the video is my buddy's, I don't have a FAST.
Here's a dyno with the cutouts open, we ran out of tape with the good camera.
I've since lowered the idle to 750.
Here's the dyno sheet.
UPDATE 5-4-08 after 10 months of living with the cam, I still love it. I would not if I had loud exhaust but stock mufflers plus cutouts is a great combo. It's so loud with the cutouts open...no way I could stand all that noise anymore. I've (knocks wood) had zero problems and the car has never died in this entire time. Always starts. I love that LS2 computer with HP tuners. I track all my gas on a spreadsheet and I've lost 2.0 mpg from the cam. Tanks with any highway mileage are still 19-20 but pure city driving in stop and go with a lot of idling can be 16-17. My best track times in my sig are kind of misleading...my best bolt on time was nearly a fluke as I only did that once, breaking 11's was reasonably rare bolt on only due to the incessant heat and humidity down here year round. Now it's a solid 11.8 car all the time running easy, and I can get 11.6's if traction is there pretty easily.
Last edited by Joe_G; 05-04-2008 at 08:42 PM.
07-27-2007, 11:56 PM
#4
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Thread Starter
07-28-2007, 12:22 AM
#7
Tech Contributor
Thread Starter
Thanks Cory - your ported intake is giving me a solid 10 rwhp... I figure about 1/2 the gain of a FAST at 1/4 of the cost. I like that math and appreciate your work.
Dennis it feels just fast as h&ll. It's been a couple of years since I had a cammed car and that 4500 rush. It feels stock until 4500 then it's just crazy. I know I'm going to have to really get used to the shift points on the track, they are going to happen fast. I was so used to my car before I really didn't even need to look at the tach, I knew when to shift. No more! It tachs up fast. Can't wait to hit the track.
Dennis it feels just fast as h&ll. It's been a couple of years since I had a cammed car and that 4500 rush. It feels stock until 4500 then it's just crazy. I know I'm going to have to really get used to the shift points on the track, they are going to happen fast. I was so used to my car before I really didn't even need to look at the tach, I knew when to shift. No more! It tachs up fast. Can't wait to hit the track.
07-28-2007, 08:50 AM
#9
Tech Contributor
Had a G5x3, .040 cometic gaskets and an underdrive pulley installed by Horsepower Sales in Pompano (HPSFLORIDA) here on the forum. As usual guys, great job, zero issues.
I fretted for months about using such a large cam 1. fearing loss of low end torque and 2. bad drivability on my daily driver.
I fretted for months about using such a large cam 1. fearing loss of low end torque and 2. bad drivability on my daily driver.
The gains for this cam are well documented and the performance you gained was solid.
I wish to make a note for those interested in the cam, that you did in fact bump your compression roughly 1/2 a point which would give about 7rwhp and 10rwtq at peak. While that isnt significant to most, the TQ gains from such a bump in compression in the low rpm's is much stronger so those contemplating the same swap should be aware that it is part of the gains you now have. 20rwtq in the 3k-4k range is likely to be from the gasket swap and that is very noticeable so your original concerns of lowered TQ were well founded but you took the very smart step of countering it.
I in no way am making any negative statements here but rather trying to make an emphasis on what many people often overlook or dismiss as insigificant in the mod process. Too often people swap to huge cams, smile from peak only numbers, and leave the compression stock and have great results but not what would be had TQ wise from the maintained DCR you have. Good luck with your new found power and enjoy!
One additional note is that these numbers are through 3.90 gears which lowers the results slightly from what would have been about 445rwhp.
Although not likely to be appreciated by many since the fuel trims are a multi-step process....good job on fueling with the mail order tune. Charlie has stopped surprising many with this type of performance.
Last edited by SpinMonster; 07-28-2007 at 08:59 AM.
07-28-2007, 12:54 PM
#11
Tech Contributor
Thread Starter
The gains for this cam are well documented and the performance you gained was solid.
I wish to make a note for those interested in the cam, that you did in fact bump your compression roughly 1/2 a point which would give about 7rwhp and 10rwtq at peak. While that isnt significant to most, the TQ gains from such a bump in compression in the low rpm's is much stronger so those contemplating the same swap should be aware that it is part of the gains you now have. 20rwtq in the 3k-4k range is likely to be from the gasket swap and that is very noticeable so your original concerns of lowered TQ were well founded but you took the very smart step of countering it.
I in no way am making any negative statements here but rather trying to make an emphasis on what many people often overlook or dismiss as insigificant in the mod process. Too often people swap to huge cams, smile from peak only numbers, and leave the compression stock and have great results but not what would be had TQ wise from the maintained DCR you have. Good luck with your new found power and enjoy!
One additional note is that these numbers are through 3.90 gears which lowers the results slightly from what would have been about 445rwhp.
Although not likely to be appreciated by many since the fuel trims are a multi-step process....good job on fueling with the mail order tune. Charlie has stopped surprising many with this type of performance.
I wish to make a note for those interested in the cam, that you did in fact bump your compression roughly 1/2 a point which would give about 7rwhp and 10rwtq at peak. While that isnt significant to most, the TQ gains from such a bump in compression in the low rpm's is much stronger so those contemplating the same swap should be aware that it is part of the gains you now have. 20rwtq in the 3k-4k range is likely to be from the gasket swap and that is very noticeable so your original concerns of lowered TQ were well founded but you took the very smart step of countering it.
I in no way am making any negative statements here but rather trying to make an emphasis on what many people often overlook or dismiss as insigificant in the mod process. Too often people swap to huge cams, smile from peak only numbers, and leave the compression stock and have great results but not what would be had TQ wise from the maintained DCR you have. Good luck with your new found power and enjoy!
One additional note is that these numbers are through 3.90 gears which lowers the results slightly from what would have been about 445rwhp.
Although not likely to be appreciated by many since the fuel trims are a multi-step process....good job on fueling with the mail order tune. Charlie has stopped surprising many with this type of performance.
I can demonstrate - my good friend has a G5x2 in his LS6, and has 3.42 gears and no cats. He was supposed to go with the Cometic .040's but there was a miscommunication with the installer so he's got stock MLS gaskets. Here are our dyno sheets overlaid. Note how much more torque down low I have. Of course my engine is larger so this sure isn't exactly apples to apples. But he doesn't have gears or cats which offset that a bit. I this demonstrates the effect of additional compression on the low end. I have him 25 peak with my bigger cam, that's from the cubes... but look at the 50 ft-lbs more I have at 3200 rpm.
I highly recommend going with the cometic .040's if you go for a big cam like mine.
07-28-2007, 03:28 PM
#12
Tech Contributor
Did you check the clearance with the gaskets? Is this cam a 114+2 LSA? I think LG said the cam barely fits with the stock gaskets and no milling if it is the 112+2 LSA.
Keep in mind that aftermarket heads with bigger valves may not fit and you are undoubtedly very close P/V. No worry though.....you can always use ETP or trick flows which increase the clearance. If you want more you can notch pistons too.
If you get a chance and have HPtuners can you email me a scan on the car at various driving conditions? I would like to see how well it runs. I've always been curious about this cam.
Keep in mind that aftermarket heads with bigger valves may not fit and you are undoubtedly very close P/V. No worry though.....you can always use ETP or trick flows which increase the clearance. If you want more you can notch pistons too.
If you get a chance and have HPtuners can you email me a scan on the car at various driving conditions? I would like to see how well it runs. I've always been curious about this cam.
07-28-2007, 05:11 PM
#13
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St. Jude Donor '05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14
Joe
Very impressive. Was at HP yesterday, Mike did some fine tuning to adjust my idle. Rog was telling me about our cam setup. He also mentined that you, Robert and Doug were doing some self tuning. I'm impressed
What's the next step in your progression
Jeff
Very impressive. Was at HP yesterday, Mike did some fine tuning to adjust my idle. Rog was telling me about our cam setup. He also mentined that you, Robert and Doug were doing some self tuning. I'm impressed
What's the next step in your progression
Jeff
07-28-2007, 06:10 PM
#14
Tech Contributor
Thread Starter
Did you check the clearance with the gaskets? Is this cam a 114+2 LSA? I think LG said the cam barely fits with the stock gaskets and no milling if it is the 112+2 LSA.
Keep in mind that aftermarket heads with bigger valves may not fit and you are undoubtedly very close P/V. No worry though.....you can always use ETP or trick flows which increase the clearance. If you want more you can notch pistons too.
If you get a chance and have HPtuners can you email me a scan on the car at various driving conditions? I would like to see how well it runs. I've always been curious about this cam.
Keep in mind that aftermarket heads with bigger valves may not fit and you are undoubtedly very close P/V. No worry though.....you can always use ETP or trick flows which increase the clearance. If you want more you can notch pistons too.
If you get a chance and have HPtuners can you email me a scan on the car at various driving conditions? I would like to see how well it runs. I've always been curious about this cam.
I would be happy to email you a scan from a 30 minute drive mostly city & some highway I took most recently and a dyno run if you'd like to see them. Just send me your email. I will appreciate your thoughts on them.
Jeff - Robert, Doug and I are all feeling the glow right now from fresh mods. You know the feeling.
Haven't considered next steps, if any. I've not upgraded my clutch and hope to get away with it. Anything more will surely require a clutch upgrade given my frequent track usage and that's a big ticket item. Plus I worry about my 05 rear end upping the power any further... but I think now there are options coming out to upgrade to C5 rears. Again a big ticket item. Robert and Doug with substantially more HP and torque than me (402's) might be beyond the edge of streetable HP! I'm sure Doug will be posting soon but trust me, those guys are packing serious N/A punch with those 402's .
07-29-2007, 08:48 AM
#15
Burning Brakes
Joe, great results. A well thought out plan of going cam only which yielded some very nice results. A couple of things to note?
Your final compression ratio is at 11.44:1 up from 10.90:1. Roughly a half point bump in compression. This helped a ton as spin mentioned before.
The cutouts are after the cats that are on the car. I'm sure going truly catless would have been worth another 3-5whp, but maybe not worth the additional noise and fuel smell it would cause.
The tune was pretty much dead on fueling wise. We tweaked the timing tables to get the finished results.
This is a complete bolt on car. Joe left no area unaddressed. intake/tb/ported intake/compression bump, nice cam, pulley, headers, 3" xpipe, cutouts. The only thing left to really change is if he swapped out for a FAST intake. That might be worth another 5-10hp. However, the car is so quiet through the stock catback and has such nice street manners it would be a shame to touch it.
I see some mid to low 11's in Joe's future. Great job Joe, and extremely well thought out package.
Dougie
Your final compression ratio is at 11.44:1 up from 10.90:1. Roughly a half point bump in compression. This helped a ton as spin mentioned before.
The cutouts are after the cats that are on the car. I'm sure going truly catless would have been worth another 3-5whp, but maybe not worth the additional noise and fuel smell it would cause.
The tune was pretty much dead on fueling wise. We tweaked the timing tables to get the finished results.
This is a complete bolt on car. Joe left no area unaddressed. intake/tb/ported intake/compression bump, nice cam, pulley, headers, 3" xpipe, cutouts. The only thing left to really change is if he swapped out for a FAST intake. That might be worth another 5-10hp. However, the car is so quiet through the stock catback and has such nice street manners it would be a shame to touch it.
I see some mid to low 11's in Joe's future. Great job Joe, and extremely well thought out package.
Dougie
07-29-2007, 09:39 AM
#16
Tech Contributor
Thread Starter
Joe, great results. A well thought out plan of going cam only which yielded some very nice results. A couple of things to note?
Your final compression ratio is at 11.44:1 up from 10.90:1. Roughly a half point bump in compression. This helped a ton as spin mentioned before.
The cutouts are after the cats that are on the car. I'm sure going truly catless would have been worth another 3-5whp, but maybe not worth the additional noise and fuel smell it would cause.
The tune was pretty much dead on fueling wise. We tweaked the timing tables to get the finished results.
This is a complete bolt on car. Joe left no area unaddressed. intake/tb/ported intake/compression bump, nice cam, pulley, headers, 3" xpipe, cutouts. The only thing left to really change is if he swapped out for a FAST intake. That might be worth another 5-10hp. However, the car is so quiet through the stock catback and has such nice street manners it would be a shame to touch it.
I see some mid to low 11's in Joe's future. Great job Joe, and extremely well thought out package.
Dougie
Your final compression ratio is at 11.44:1 up from 10.90:1. Roughly a half point bump in compression. This helped a ton as spin mentioned before.
The cutouts are after the cats that are on the car. I'm sure going truly catless would have been worth another 3-5whp, but maybe not worth the additional noise and fuel smell it would cause.
The tune was pretty much dead on fueling wise. We tweaked the timing tables to get the finished results.
This is a complete bolt on car. Joe left no area unaddressed. intake/tb/ported intake/compression bump, nice cam, pulley, headers, 3" xpipe, cutouts. The only thing left to really change is if he swapped out for a FAST intake. That might be worth another 5-10hp. However, the car is so quiet through the stock catback and has such nice street manners it would be a shame to touch it.
I see some mid to low 11's in Joe's future. Great job Joe, and extremely well thought out package.
Dougie
I've got a video of the dyno I'll post later.
I'm also eagerly awaiting your write up. Your car is just wild.
07-29-2007, 09:24 PM
#19
Joe, nice results with that cam swap. I can't wait to hear how good the car sounds.
Steve, bring on those videos.
Looks like the next Challege will be VERY interesting!!
Steve, bring on those videos.
Looks like the next Challege will be VERY interesting!!
07-30-2007, 03:23 PM
#20
Prediction - Joe can't handle the power at the track; first time will be 12.3. He'll be a little discouraged, but okay overall. Next run, 12.1. Thinking - "hmm, maybe I shouldn't have done this".
Then, after a few more runs, and some shredded rubber all over the place, you'll see a 11.7 slip, then maybe a mid 11's. The smiles will start to show.
Then, after a few more runs, and some shredded rubber all over the place, you'll see a 11.7 slip, then maybe a mid 11's. The smiles will start to show.