Ranger

While doing some script editing for my DVD, I came across this spreadsheet I prepared a year ago. I prepared it when I was trying to understand the impact on Torque Management on my incremental times at the drag strip.



It compares the quarter-mile splits and incremental times of two very well driven Corvettes in very similar weather (DA) and at the same fine track (Houston Raceway Park). Passes were at the same time of year, mid-January, a period of very favorable race conditions there.

The acceleration difference between the cars is very minor except for the 60'-330' and 330'-660' incrementals. Those are both adversely affected by the C6's Torque Management penalty on the launch/1-2 shift and then 2-3 shift. The C5Z meanwhile does not pay that penalty.

Think the spread sheet shows the impact of TM quite well.

Ranger

VetVetter

Interesting. Thanks for info Ranger.

Does the aftermarket tuning really remove TM?

greekc6

very interesting how they compare

jogar80

Wow, pretty interesting to see the TM at work there

AFVETTE

And one has to wonder if TM will be even more aggressive on LS3 cars. I'm sure we'll know the answer to that with the first reports coming from the track.

Tom

Ranger

From my reading, a tuner can remove the amount of TM the owner is comfortable being without.

TM is there to protect the driveline from the shock of launch and high-rpm shift. The cars seem to bear up well absent TM. But no one knows if there is a longer-term adverse impact on reliability. That probably doesn't matter to owners who trade cars shorter term.

Ranger

Marina Blue

Interesting.

If I am reading this correctly, the Z06 is .339 seconds ahead at 660’ but after that the Z06 gains only .113 seconds due to the 4.11 mph (95.29-91.18) speed advantage at that 660’ mark. However, over the last 660’ the Z51 gains 24.4 mph (115.58-91.18) compared to the Z06 gaining 21.61 mph (116.90-95.29), which helps narrow the rate of "et" and speed gap after the half-way point. Correct me if I am wrong, but the 2nd half of the run indicates capability of the car more than driver skill. It is here that the C6 shows her stuff unhindered by TM.

Your chart does prove the effects of TM and also the somewhat better traction from the Z06's wider non-runflat tires. Of course there are slight differences in DA and drivers, but I don't believe enough to change your conclusions.

Thanks Ranger. Great information, but I am surprised by what it shows as I thought the Z06 would be stronger than the C6 in the last 660'.

Whiterock1

Short answer is yes, on Manuals. Not all of it can be removed on slushboxes as the code for the TCM hasn't been cracked--this per Diablo on their C6 Predator. The M-6 is more robust than the A-4/6 with respect to shock to the driveline, one would think, so leaving some TM protection is probably not a bad idea. Not sure of what other tuners claim. Very interesting. Before I joined this forum I thought TM was so much It is apparently not widely known--or understood. Thanx for the post!

yell03

Ranger -

Excellent info!

As for TM being tuned out, I don't think so.

I had 3 different dyno-tunes on my old 2006 C6 manual coupe and the effects of TM were very evident.
The higher my 1/8 traps were, the slower my 1/4 traps were?
88mph 1/8th got me 115-115 in the 1/4.
89mph 1/8ths and my 1/4 traps dropped to the 114s.

Howard

dennis50nj

i don't know if it can be removed in the m6 with tuning. i know Cartek sells a black box that does. i don't know if it eliminates all never asked. but in the a4 and a6 i know you cant i asked Dave and Julio at Cartek. no you cant eliminate it completely you can relax it some. i still see the effects of tm according to 60 ft better 60 ft slower1/8 mile. slower 60 ft better 1/8. slower 1/8 faster 1/4. faster 1/8 slower 1/4

jimman

Interesting Cartek's black box was introduced in the fall of 2004, 6 months before anyone cracked the code for tuning purposes on the LS2. Then it was discovered that it interupts the ABS only so not sure how that impacts torque. Also curious to know how many ft/lbs of torque are reduced by a reduction of timing and where might the transducers be located to provide that feedback.

LS1LT1

Well, considering that the LS3s still use the same torque tube/differential/output shaft/half shaft (and essentially the same automatic trans) set up as the lower powered 2007 LS2s did then I would think it would have to be.
Factor that along with the added weight and the same greasy tires and you'll have my reasoning as to why these 2008s won't be simply falling into the 11s effortlessly like some tend to think they will.
Though I hope I'm wrong.

Thanks for the post Ranger, very informative.

Goodwood

Boy, you got me wondering now if LPE tunes out TM with their post engine build tune on M6's?

8850

If you have the HP Tuner beta 2.1.19 you can eliminate all TM with the automatics. Not sure if it works on the manuals. Maybe somebody with a manual and HP Tuner can enlighten us.

I think that 1.8? 60' is somewhat gear limited. Try a 4:10 gear with slicks, launch at 6000 rpm and lets see what happens.

Ranger

Both the cars are bone-stock on stock tires.

A C6 will pay an even higher TM penalty on drag radials.

Ranger

8850

Are you traction limited with both cars? If the tires are spinning then TM hasn't came into play at least at launch. Definitely won't optimize the capability of the car with any tire spin. Once you have traction then TM will play it's penalty. That's when you do the HP beta TM elimination. And then you probably start breaking things. Depends on how fast we want to go!

Good charting by the way!

Ranger

Having logged (HP Tuners) many C6Z passes at the drag strip on stock tires and drag radials, I have found that TM is definitely present on both tires.

Ranger

Whiterock1

For good reason, if you follow their logic in the first place. I've seen umpteen rear ends come apart with slicks, while drag radials are better, still you pay for the hookup somewhere in the drivetrain. BTW, those are great times for stock cars!

not08crmanymore

I don't know what torque management is.
I didn't know mn6's had it.
Very nice times for stock cars!!
I love my 05 z51!

Cjunkie

weight differece ranger? i own both cars and there is about 150 lb difference between the two (id imagine closer to 200 if the C6 is a 3lt car) i dunno the mph kinda indicates the weight difference as well.