Tom400CFI

How many "T&T" or "heads up" type passes does it take to dial in your driving to a new car?

I feel that I have a pretty good idea, but want some back up for a point I'm trying to make...
The local drag strip here in Utah, (Rocky Mountain Raceway) offers these services:
*Wednesday Night T&T: $25 + $20 for YTI for bracket racing (whicih I don't want to do), 5 pm till dusk, so about 3 hours at best. Frequency: once every several weeks.
*Friday Midnight drags: $10 dollars, 200+cars, 11:30 pm untill about 1:30 AM Lucky if you get three passes. Frequency: once every several weeks.
*Club Bracket racing: $25, Two T&T passes (they count) then eliminations. Frequency: once every several weeks.
*Street Legal series: $25 (after YTI), Two T&T passes (they count) then eliminations. Frequency: once every week.
*Summit ET Series: $25 (after YTI), Two T&T passes (they count) then eliminations. Frequency: once every week.

How TF is a person supposed to get any meaningful seat time w/a "program" like this??? The best you can ever hope for is about three passes. Maybe 5 on a really good T&T night in late June when the sun is up as long as possible ("dusk", remember) (and it's hot as hell).

dennis50nj

man they sure charge a lot. hear at atco somtimes you could
get 10 runs depends on how many people are hear. at englishtown 2-3 times the money and they punch a ticket each run and lucky if you get three.

Ranger

I'll focus on the "how many passes" part of your question.

If you already have a good general knowledge of fast driving techniques, you can generally make rapid progress IF you are told the optimal techniques for your platform.

If, on the other hand, you must discover those techniques independently, it takes much longer. I had 500 passes in C5s. When I transitioned to the C6Z It took 10 passes to run 11.20 (DRs) and 42 more to shed another .35 seconds to 10.85. That's 52 passes total. It would have taken less than half that if someone had briefed me on the right techniques. Unfortunately, I was plowing new ground.

If an owner has no experience at the track but wants to learn and receives the benefit of briefing by knowledgeable drivers, I'd estimate 30-50 passes will be needed to be truly dialed-in.

Then there's the queston...what is "dialed-in driving." To me it means a driver can make five passes and get three of them within one tenth and one more within two tenths. This allows one outlier. Seriously dialed in driving will put five of five within a tenth. Not many folks with a manual tranny can do that.

With all that said, there is a lot of practice that can be done away from the track to compress the learning curves.

Ranger

VetVetter

See if you can get enough people together and find out if you can do a "club" event and rent the track.

But - yes you are right .... seems kinda dumb and seems that they are passing on business opportunities as well but not having more weekly events.

20Z0602

Corvette club of Utah rents the track 1 or 2 times a month, from what I was told you could get several passes in. corvetteclubofutah.org. I'm not a member so I don't have more info on it. Check the calander of events

Jim

Wayne88

I think that's the best way to learn. Check the regional forums, sometimes they gather groups for track rentals there. I hear they get about 10-12 passes each.

Waiting all night for 2 or 3 passes is a drag [ did I just say that ].

Tom400CFI

Great post Ranger, I was hoping that you'd post here. I believe that I have some of the knowledge and skill for fast driving techniques (based on my performance relative to others'), and I have been able to apply some of the platform techniques; mostly from reading your threads.

Very good point about "what is 'dialed-in driving'"? Which brings me to my situation. Here in UT, at 4500' elevation, (Generally 7000+ DA) I've run 12.8x's at a po-dunk NON NHRA track (no slips, no break outs of time), w/my muffs-only C6. At the track above, I've run a 13.02 (on a 2.1 60') and I want a legitimate NHRA 12.99 or better slip in my sweaty hand.

Here is the crazy thing: the night I ran the 13.02, and backed that w/a 13.07, there were three other C6's there, all running CONSISTANT LOW 14's! Were they dialed? No they weren't IMO, because they are leaving over a full second worth of "driving" on the table. While I was at the track that night, I was bitching about the track to other Corvette Club members about the challenge of running passes to get truely dialed in and optimize the driving of your particular car (my goal). They literally laughed at me, then bragged about how they had made the two T&T passes and that they were "dialed"...-like what was MY problem. So why were they running a second slower than me w/the same car?

They weren't dialed, and they don't even know it. Here in UT, at RMR they may never get dialed. I'm from Mass originally and used to run at Epping, so I know about $12 T&T's and driving until...you're sick of it. I miss that scene.

Oh, also you CAN rent RMR for the day, BUT they only allow 5 cars! (?) -Which makes it too expesive for me. Why 5 cars only??? If you rent the damn track, you should be able to bring as many friends as you like!

CFI-EFI

I haven't raced for a couple of years, but I used to be there every weekend. This year I DID attend the pre-season drivers meeting, and between the two, I think I have some corrections for you. It isn't as easy to make runs at RMR as you say.

1.) To run a Wednesday night T&T session, you must be signed up for "points" in either the "Street Legal Series" or the Summit ET Bracket Racing Series". It costs $20.00 for the year to enter each series ($40.00 for both). Therefore, to go and make a few, casual, T&T passes, it costs the $20.00 points entry fee, PLUS the track (event) entry fee, the first time you go.

2.) A great place to be if you are under 25.

3.) New this year. I don't know any of the particulars.

4.) Plus the $20.00, once time a year, points fee. If you don't sign up for points, you don't race.

5.) Same as 4.). But it is a different $20.00 points fee. If you want to race both series, you have to enter both point contests.

This would be a good place for someone to build a drag strip.

RACE ON!!!

CFI-EFI

I've seen you drive. A little better familiarity with the new car might be in order, but you aren't a new greenhorn with his first car, a stick, no less at the track for the first time. My stock Crossfire 60's at 2.0 flat. That is where your ET is hiding. Would you like to borrow a pair of drag radials? I'll guarantee you the 12.xx you are seeking.

RACE ON!!!

JFTaylor

That's what we do in VA as well.

Tom400CFI

Yep, I'd be ALL ABOUT an all day track rental, but...

Tom400CFI

Well, I just got off the phone w/the Safety and Security director at RMR. My mission was to find out more about renting the track. Now LAST time I called, I talked to Ron Craft, the actual Drag Strip Manager. With some coaxing, he told me that it was $1400 for the day, and only 5 cars are allowed. Those are the "options" and that's that...done deal. That's $280/person for a day. A "Day" is 6 hours, BTW.

This time, talking to the S/S director, he was FAR more helpful and "interested" in talking about options. He told me the same $1400 for the "day", plus $200/car (!) for every car past 5. So if I got 20 cars, it would be $220/car for the day. Also, that is for only 1 lane. Still way too much money, IMO.

I think, anyway. For that much money, I could spend a day at Miller Motorsports Park, in Toole, and have a LOT more fun, IMO.

CFI-EFI is right; this town would be a GREAT place to open a drag strip. You could actually make some money here, by simply offering sevices that people WANT.

Evilways

Our test and tune events are wide open, as many runs as you can get for your $20. It usually doesn't get too congested until the last hour or so. My last three trips I got 10 runs in Jan,12 runs in Apr. and 7 runs last week.Too many constraints at the track you listed.

Dr.Ron

Sounds like either a new or different track is in order, or an organized protest of this track.
They're out of their minds!!!!

haljensen

How about a good accelerometer (G-Tech?) and a limited access deserted road? Maybe a buddy in another car for a lookout?

Joe_G

I really learned to drive my car at Moroso's "private" test days. They're not private, $75 from 9 am to 12 am (2 hour shutdown at 4:30). I got in 19 runs between two of my cars one time, the track is open both lanes and hardly anyone shows up so you literally drive up and race. I find I learn the most when I hotlap 3 times. I honed my skills by repeating the runs in close proximity - like hitting a driving range for golf ball. Any more in a row is too hard on the car IMHO. We are very lucky to have about every other month here. Always on Friday so it's a great excuse to take off work.

20Z0602

We used to rent Quaker City Raceway in Salem Ohio for $400.00, for 4 hrs and up to 40 cars for a club event. In my limited time living here in SLC (2yrs) this is just typical. I have never run at Rocky Mtn. and it looks like I never will. They can bend someone else over, total

Tom400CFI

Good thread. Thanks for all the posts, guys.

-Tom