LD85

Can anyone describe their install?

Do they mention a Clutch Pedal travel stop or shims or how far the TOB should be from the PP fingers when fully retracted in their instrctions?

Just curious, I used ther Clutch and PP and I did my own version of this using a Howe Racing TOB and I had to make a Clutch Pedal Travel stop and I had to convert to a Wilwood Clutch Master with a longer stroke and 3/4" bore, a nice part.



I had to make a bracket to mount to the firewall in place of the stock unit but the good part is NO MORE ZF hydraulic parts

Gonna put my enigne back in tonight so I should be on the road by this weekend, unless Mr. Murphy stops by .



http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

LD85

Oh yeah prices:

Howe TOB = $151 (rebuildable)
Wilwood Master = $49 (rebuildable)
RAM 309M Disc= $169
Ram 401 PP 3000lb clamp= $176
AMD Performance 4340 Billet Flywheel = $125
SS Braided Hydraulic lines = $25 for two (supply & Bleed)

http://www.amsracing.net/index.php?p...&idProduct=267

DISCLAIMER: This is not a "bolt on deal" becasue I had to make a firewall bracket, pedal stop, and clevis to attach the Master rod to the Clutch pedal pivot, not a big deal really.

Satisfaction of not using ZF Hydraulics = Priceless

mrc24x

Glad to hear your custom "push" conversion is working out.
Mine hasn't been so smooth...............First , the directions from Ram were pathetic. Flat out wrong. Anyway, many phone calls, drilling and counter sinking a tranny retainer plate bolt, not using a jam nut on the alignment stud so it would work, adding a .090" bellhousing shim to move the tranny back far enough to get the proper tolerance and (here is the kicker) having the piston over travel AFTER installing the engine and tranny in the car. I bench tested the setup before putting everything in the car. I bled it, pumped the clutch a couple times quickly and it went to the floor. Keep in mind that the directions from Ram didn't say anything about a pedal stop. This was supposed to be a "kit" for the C4. Needless to say I pulled everything out and I am a happy McCleod customer at the moment!!! The bolt in bearing (PN#1345) is a nice piece. I haven't driven it yet but I just started the new animal for the first time about 20 minutes ago. I can't wait to get to drive it in anger.

excessive81

good job larry cant wait to see it rooling under its own power

LD85

This is the main reason I took so long to put my engine back in, I too had to countersink the same bolt hole, and grind a fuzz off the edge of the pivot stud collar on the BH so the braided line fittings would clear , and I could not use a jam nut either so I used Red Loctite on the stud, tonight I adjusted the pedal stop so it travels less than Max so the O-ring wont blow out.

I put the engine back into the bay tonight and tightened the BH bolts to the block, pushed in on the Clutch pedal to allow the block to travel back and my wife told me it was harder but man this puppy is a much much harder pedal pressure,, 2X at least, but I love it! I pumped it 25-30 times then looked for leaks but I am confident that it was set up by a professional and will be fine!

hey shane, it should be on the road or at least around the block by Saturday.

LD85

MRC24X, did you get a McLeod push type? Are they on the market now?

I agree the 1345 is very nice, but when I tried this back 3-4 years ago, the stack up was @ .300 too tall and would not fit with my 1985 stock PP and clutch,, this is where the mythical 6.125 thick BH issue came up,


Oh yeah, I learned thru research that the clutch pedal stop is a trick to help save ET due to the limited pedal travel, no wasted stroke of the pedal


Mine was two piece seal

carson

I have missed any earlier posts on this set up. One piece rear seal or two.

And any install pics and more info would be greatly appreciated.

Admire the ability and time you guys have put into this.

-=Jeff=-

Hey Larry How thick is the Flywheel?? This looks like a nice set-up let us know how it works once you have it on the road..

LD85

It is the stock 1985 FW thickness .950"

Also, I can make a pedal stop if anyone needs one. I made one that attaches to the upper clutch arm and is hidden under the dash. It has a thread rod with an adjustable tip, also I screwed a piece of this stell to the firewall so the adjustable tip will not scar or dig into the firewall.

-=Jeff=-

Sure if you include the master cylinder bracket as well..

LD85

For you Jeff, I will make both

This is the deal,

1. you cut @ .750 off the end of the Wilwood threaded push rod
2. You take the round eyelet end off the factory master and attach it to a piece that will thread onto the Wilwood 5/16-24 push rod. I can make this.
3. You add the pedal stop.
4. You add 1/2" to the front of the existing Master firewall spacer with the holes vertical, not on an angle like the ZF Master.
5. You MIGHT need a .050 shim, and I have 2-3 extras that I cut out 2 or 3 years back when I tried the McLeod failure TOB.
6. You get a new O-ring for the ID of the Howe.

Voila

jerkyboy

Hey Larry, good to see you've got it figured out. I too went with the RAM conversion. Shop had to fabricate shims to back the tranny up. I got the car back, ran it for about 150 miles and did a hard 2-3 shift and the clutch pedal never came back. I am wondering if I blew out the o-ring as you all are discussing . It's going back to the shop ASAP. The clutch did hold well however but more difficult to modulate than the carolina clutch stage II that was in there before.

-=Jeff=-

Thanks Brother!! let me know what I will owe you, BUT wait until you have it working on the road, in case the parts need tweaking..

LD85

Get a pedal stop, it will not work without it, its just a fact, I was amazed at how predictable the hydraulics were after the stop was put on.

Jeff, I will know more at the end of this weekend.

In retrospect after reading the post from MRC24x, I realize that the RAM guys are clueless, I called their tech line and spoke with the same guy for 2 weeks, and he had zero answers to questions that I already had the answers for,, amazing,,, nice people but just amazing is all I can say.

But be advised the 3000 clamp is hard to push compared to stock or the old Centerforce. You can get any push type you like in reality but I went for the clamp due to previous slippage issues.

edcmat-l1

I did jerkyboys install. Spent over an hour on the phone with them doing the measurements to make sure everything would work first time. Backed the tranny up approx. .150. They NEVER said anything about a stop. I even bled the thing with it out of the car. Tranny on the tranny jack, just my hand against it. You'd think if it was gonna pop it woulda done it then. I'll be on the phone with them shortly.
The car went about 100 miles for me, and then about 150 with Dave, so....?
Customer service was terrible. After explaining everything, year, trans type, everything,doing all the measurements, they send me a slave for a T56
so, back on the phone with them, they tell me on a monday the right one will ship on tues, be here in 2 days
I call back fri, oh, we dont have the steel braided lines, so it wont ship for a week or more (BTW nobody told me that the first time and no phone call back to say hey, BTW)
So, like a week later I call and they still dont have the lines should get em today (that day) or next.
So I sicked Dave on em (GET EM DAVE!!)
We recieved the right one a couple days later after they refused to pay for next day.
So, if it blew the slave apart, I will be a little more than POed. May pull it and ask for a refund. A- S.I.U.Y.A. refund!

mrc24x

Larry,
Yeah I have the #1345 bearing from McCleod. It's pricey ($391 from Jeg's) but it will not over travel and it replaces the retainer plate completely. I think the input shaft collar was part of the problem with my Ram setup. (the O'rings they kept sending were just a fraction too big)

I'm glad that you brought up the mystery 6.125" BH. I found some threads in the archives that led me down a long path searching for one. That myth is busted. The aluminum BH is the same dimension as the magnesium version.

If anyone needs to move the tranny back to get the tolerance correct I would suggest the "mid mount engine plate" from Jeg's. ($37) just cut the sides off and it fits the BH perfect for .090" shim. That ended up being a waste of time however once I put the Mcleod bearing in since it was the correct distance to begin with.

My advice to anyone thinking about doing this is to do it like LD. Take your own measurements and buy the parts individually. It really is pretty simple with the correct parts. My idiotic expectations of spending more for a "kit" so it would be plug and play really back fired.

The cliff notes version of measurements needed:

1) measure from the tranny mounting surface of the bellhousing to the crown of the Pressure Plate fingers.

2) Measure from the tranny mounting surface to the face of the T-O bearing when it is fully retracted. (push the bearing as far back on the collar as possible)

3) Using the results above: 1) - 2) = the distance between the T-O bearing face and the PP fingers when installed.

Ram recommends .150-.200 "

McCleod recommends .100-.300"

I'll post some misc pics and a full review at a later date. I need to drive it a while first.


Matt

edcmat-l1

I'll look into the mcleod piece.

LD85

For shims, I bought a small 3-foot square sheet of .050 thick steel from our local hardware store, then traced the existing spacer from the ZF BH, and jig sawed 4 spacers which have sat in my garage since the McLeod attempt.

The McLeod TOB is nice and the one I would choose if I did it again, but for whatever reason, my measurements were too tall by .300" so I went with the How TOB because it has the shortest overall height of all the slip on TOB's, I only had to add .050 to get a gap of .064 free play spacing.

Nobody could tell me what the gap should be to accommodate the disc wear,,, How said .050 and I ended up with .064" in rreality the PP fingers can vary in height as much as .030" so I could have as much as .085-.090 , but I wont have less than .064

If the McLeod is a bolt on kit that is well planned out, then McLeod is the way to go, I waited sicne last fall on their new prodcut and I just could not wait on them any longer

LD85

Clutch is in works great, completely releases, no adjustments necessary.

One issue though is that the switch that you set when you floor the clutch that allows the ignition to fire, barely makes. I may bypass this puppy, because it is way up in the dash and does not look adjustable.

Can drive now, gonna rain.

CentralCoaster

Wow, I guess I was wrong on the clutch master price.

I agree about the ZF hydraulics, nothing but baboon sh*t.

In addition to all the other problems, just recently I've seen 3 cases on here where the slave pushrod snapped off.