[Z06] '02-'04 LS6 Valve spring= LS2 valve spring
#21
Safety Car
Thread Starter
#22
Drifting
What I bought is 16 individually packed in plastic bags. I bought 12499224 Kit which was $65 list and about $54 selling price from Gene Culley. Individually the springs and a different number and were $10 each list.
I just checked:
12586484 $6.14 each
12565313 no information
#23
Drifting
The yellow springs that I just got have tags that say "MUBEA INC. MADE IN GERMANY".
Here is link to Mfg. with description of springs:
http://www.mubea.com/english/index.htm
Looks like they are using metallurgy to avoid having to shot peen springs for postive (compressive) residual stress. The spring wire looks oval too.
Here is link to Mfg. with description of springs:
http://www.mubea.com/english/index.htm
Mubea engine valve springs are wire springs made from cold-formed high-tensile spring steel. This automotive application requires springs capable of withstanding extremely high loads in addition to today's rigid quality requirements. Minimum force tolerances, highest fatigue stress characteristics and extremely good relaxation behaviour are required to ensure optimised valve train design and long engine service lifetimes.
For the new generation of engines, Mubea can offer designs capable of further reductions in required spring forces and valve spring heights by utilising special designs (including, cylindrical, conical, beehive springs made out of round or profiled wire). Mubea's application of boundary layer modification technology (MRM) uses the high tensile strength of CrSiV/CrSiNiV steels in order to achieve positive residual stresses. This process has significantly increased bearable loads to a point where it has been possible to reduce costs, as intensive piece hardening processes are often no longer necessary.
Mubea has also supported the development of electro-mechanical valve trains and produces actuator springs that meet the stringent accuracy and loads required for these applications. Much of this work is in tight co-operation with FEV Motorentechnik.
The main factors in Mubea's success are high material quality, leading manufacturing technology and total process quality assurance. In addition to a world-wide presence, Mubea have many years of development experience, which along with state-of-the-art testing, rapid prototyping and fully automated plant, leave Mubea in a robust position to support global engine programmes. With more than 1 billion valve springs supplied since 1996 we have achieved a leading position in all key markets.
For the new generation of engines, Mubea can offer designs capable of further reductions in required spring forces and valve spring heights by utilising special designs (including, cylindrical, conical, beehive springs made out of round or profiled wire). Mubea's application of boundary layer modification technology (MRM) uses the high tensile strength of CrSiV/CrSiNiV steels in order to achieve positive residual stresses. This process has significantly increased bearable loads to a point where it has been possible to reduce costs, as intensive piece hardening processes are often no longer necessary.
Mubea has also supported the development of electro-mechanical valve trains and produces actuator springs that meet the stringent accuracy and loads required for these applications. Much of this work is in tight co-operation with FEV Motorentechnik.
The main factors in Mubea's success are high material quality, leading manufacturing technology and total process quality assurance. In addition to a world-wide presence, Mubea have many years of development experience, which along with state-of-the-art testing, rapid prototyping and fully automated plant, leave Mubea in a robust position to support global engine programmes. With more than 1 billion valve springs supplied since 1996 we have achieved a leading position in all key markets.
#24
Team Owner
The springs don't give a **** how much whp you make. All they care about is cam profile, RPM, and their temperature.
#25
Team Owner
The fatigue life of a spring is mostly determined by load and number of cycles. The load is determined by seat load (valve closed) and the increase in spring load due to cam lift (valve open). Unless you are reving the engine to the point of valve float, the seat load and load at max lift don't change. This is why I think the theory of not reving the engine until oil is up to temperature, is urban legend.
My guess it has more to do with the manufacturing of the wire used in the 2002 cars that had failures. Metallurgy was off a bit, heat treat wasn't quite right, a small nick in wire where the spring changes OD at the top.
My guess it has more to do with the manufacturing of the wire used in the 2002 cars that had failures. Metallurgy was off a bit, heat treat wasn't quite right, a small nick in wire where the spring changes OD at the top.
#26
Drifting
Oil temp just gives you an idea of the temperature of the metal of the spring. Sure it matters. A spring being squashed rapidly when it is -300 degrees will shatter, one an +300 degrees will not. I think it's safe to say one at 30 degrees is more likely to fracture when squashed rapidly (high RPMs) than when it's at 180 degrees.
Temperature factor Kd decreases with increasing temperature. The rotating beam endurance limit is multiplied by the modifying factors (like Kd) to calculate the corrected fatigue endurance limit. In other words a fatigue failure is more likely at a higher temperature than a lower temperature. That is why I believe warming an engine does nothing beneficial for the valve springs as far as fatigue failures go. It's urban legend.
#27
Drifting
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Temperature factor Kd decreases with increasing temperature. The rotating beam endurance limit is multiplied by the modifying factors (like Kd) to calculate the corrected fatigue endurance limit. In other words a fatigue failure is more likely at a higher temperature than a lower temperature. That is why I believe warming an engine does nothing beneficial for the valve springs as far as fatigue failures go. It's urban legend.
#28
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Temperature factor Kd decreases with increasing temperature. The rotating beam endurance limit is multiplied by the modifying factors (like Kd) to calculate the corrected fatigue endurance limit. In other words a fatigue failure is more likely at a higher temperature than a lower temperature. That is why I believe warming an engine does nothing beneficial for the valve springs as far as fatigue failures go. It's urban legend.
There will be a point when metal gets so cold that it becomes more brittle. I don't know what that would be for this spring steel. I believe every metallic alloy has what's called a ductile/brittle transition temp. You don't want to stress it below this. In the 40's this was the cause of the loss of many of the liberty ships--the cold water of the North Atlantic and poor metallurgy and design (sharp geometry).
It is not ridiculous to think that cold starts (especially if it is -20F outside) with quick rev to high rpm could lead to an early failure if the spring was not made right. GM would test under these conditions--but maybe they didn't rev it and let it warm properly before high rpm in their tests.
#29
Le Mans Master
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Since no one has mentioned it yet I will. The 01 Z06 springs are colored blue. In 2002 when they changed the camshaft they also changed the springs. This is when they went to the new yellow spring in the Ls6 heads. The yellow valve springs are good to around .560 lift. As mentioned before springs do not break based on hp but on cam lift and rpms. You also have to check items like install height and know when coil bind will occur if you are using different springs.
#31
Le Mans Master
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ive got 27k on mine and i'm swapping springs and molly pushrods I am the third owner, god knows what the other owners did!
tranny and rear end had original fluid in it all flushed and new now
#32
Safety Car
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Then again, other circumstances will affect your decision, such as if you are doing your own work or if you already had to eat a big repair,etc.
#33
Safety Car
#35
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Yes. There have been a number on this board and others that I have read about. Do a search right now and you'll find one.
The obvious commonality that I have found with these reported failures is that they are Z06's made in Calendar year 2002. Mileage varies greatly from 15,000 miles to 77,000 miles, with most examples towards the high mileage end of the scale. These are stock engines, mind you. Most of them do not have to rebuild, as the valve didn't drop, but there were several who did need a new motor.
The obvious commonality that I have found with these reported failures is that they are Z06's made in Calendar year 2002. Mileage varies greatly from 15,000 miles to 77,000 miles, with most examples towards the high mileage end of the scale. These are stock engines, mind you. Most of them do not have to rebuild, as the valve didn't drop, but there were several who did need a new motor.
#37
Le Mans Master
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fast ****! , And damn scary with the computer off Spins all over the place!
I like it Little heavy for me but i will get used to it ,need better tires cheap kumhos came with it, nice but i'm getting road race slicks(kumho v710)
and I am not waiting a year to learn how to drive on street tires they are dangerous!
i break loose and hit the wall it's my problem
not the cars
and will do cam and 100 shot in the next few months hehe
after about two sets of tires
#38
Le Mans Master
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Yes. There have been a number on this board and others that I have read about. Do a search right now and you'll find one.
The obvious commonality that I have found with these reported failures is that they are Z06's made in Calendar year 2002. Mileage varies greatly from 15,000 miles to 77,000 miles, with most examples towards the high mileage end of the scale. These are stock engines, mind you. Most of them do not have to rebuild, as the valve didn't drop, but there were several who did need a new motor.
The obvious commonality that I have found with these reported failures is that they are Z06's made in Calendar year 2002. Mileage varies greatly from 15,000 miles to 77,000 miles, with most examples towards the high mileage end of the scale. These are stock engines, mind you. Most of them do not have to rebuild, as the valve didn't drop, but there were several who did need a new motor.
cheap insurance plus GM pushrods suck at high rpm's!
#39
There is nothing confusing about this spring issue.. The 01 z06 had NO spring breakage issues "at low load" if anyone knows of any I would be interested to hear. In 02 the increased cam size there are breakages at zero or near zero load This leads me to believe the warmup is not a factor, it is the springs failing due to the lift of the bigger cam.
Now in mid 03 GM changed the springs (This is what people are referring to as the ls2 spring, but in fact it is the new spring made to allieviate the breakage problem, although these are infact the springs that are now used in the ls2 , do you know why? BECAUSE THEY DIDNT BREAK IN THE LS6 I did alot of research on this after having 2 seperate breakages this was after no or low load and proper warmup.. imo it is cheap insurance to replace your springs for peace of mind.. I had many pm's and responses of this happening.
Now in mid 03 GM changed the springs (This is what people are referring to as the ls2 spring, but in fact it is the new spring made to allieviate the breakage problem, although these are infact the springs that are now used in the ls2 , do you know why? BECAUSE THEY DIDNT BREAK IN THE LS6 I did alot of research on this after having 2 seperate breakages this was after no or low load and proper warmup.. imo it is cheap insurance to replace your springs for peace of mind.. I had many pm's and responses of this happening.
#40
Le Mans Master
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There is nothing confusing about this spring issue.. The 01 z06 had NO spring breakage issues "at low load" if anyone knows of any I would be interested to hear. In 02 the increased cam size there are breakages at zero or near zero load This leads me to believe the warmup is not a factor, it is the springs failing due to the lift of the bigger cam.
Now in mid 03 GM changed the springs (This is what people are referring to as the ls2 spring, but in fact it is the new spring made to allieviate the breakage problem, although these are infact the springs that are now used in the ls2 , do you know why? BECAUSE THEY DIDNT BREAK IN THE LS6 I did alot of research on this after having 2 seperate breakages this was after no or low load and proper warmup.. imo it is cheap insurance to replace your springs for peace of mind.. I had many pm's and responses of this happening.
Now in mid 03 GM changed the springs (This is what people are referring to as the ls2 spring, but in fact it is the new spring made to allieviate the breakage problem, although these are infact the springs that are now used in the ls2 , do you know why? BECAUSE THEY DIDNT BREAK IN THE LS6 I did alot of research on this after having 2 seperate breakages this was after no or low load and proper warmup.. imo it is cheap insurance to replace your springs for peace of mind.. I had many pm's and responses of this happening.