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[Z06] '02-'04 LS6 Valve spring= LS2 valve spring

Old 04-11-2007, 12:45 PM
  #21  
sothpaw2
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Originally Posted by UstaB-GS549
I ordered a set of 16 last week. They are yellow and made in Germany.
All yellow? Did they come individually wrapped and you bought 16 singles or was it truely as "set", one price?
Old 04-11-2007, 04:25 PM
  #22  
UstaB-GS549
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Originally Posted by sothpaw2
All yellow? Did they come individually wrapped and you bought 16 singles or was it truely as "set", one price?

What I bought is 16 individually packed in plastic bags. I bought 12499224 Kit which was $65 list and about $54 selling price from Gene Culley. Individually the springs and a different number and were $10 each list.

I just checked:
12586484 $6.14 each
12565313 no information
Old 04-11-2007, 11:10 PM
  #23  
UstaB-GS549
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The yellow springs that I just got have tags that say "MUBEA INC. MADE IN GERMANY".

Here is link to Mfg. with description of springs:

http://www.mubea.com/english/index.htm

Mubea engine valve springs are wire springs made from cold-formed high-tensile spring steel. This automotive application requires springs capable of withstanding extremely high loads in addition to today's rigid quality requirements. Minimum force tolerances, highest fatigue stress characteristics and extremely good relaxation behaviour are required to ensure optimised valve train design and long engine service lifetimes.

For the new generation of engines, Mubea can offer designs capable of further reductions in required spring forces and valve spring heights by utilising special designs (including, cylindrical, conical, beehive springs made out of round or profiled wire). Mubea's application of boundary layer modification technology (MRM) uses the high tensile strength of CrSiV/CrSiNiV steels in order to achieve positive residual stresses. This process has significantly increased bearable loads to a point where it has been possible to reduce costs, as intensive piece hardening processes are often no longer necessary.

Mubea has also supported the development of electro-mechanical valve trains and produces actuator springs that meet the stringent accuracy and loads required for these applications. Much of this work is in tight co-operation with FEV Motorentechnik.

The main factors in Mubea's success are high material quality, leading manufacturing technology and total process quality assurance. In addition to a world-wide presence, Mubea have many years of development experience, which along with state-of-the-art testing, rapid prototyping and fully automated plant, leave Mubea in a robust position to support global engine programmes. With more than 1 billion valve springs supplied since 1996 we have achieved a leading position in all key markets.
Looks like they are using metallurgy to avoid having to shot peen springs for postive (compressive) residual stress. The spring wire looks oval too.
Old 04-12-2007, 12:48 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by bernrex
Interesting .....

At what WHP levels would it be best to upgrade valve springs in late model C5Z's ?

I'm thinking with another 100 + at the wheels .... some beehives would be in order.
The springs don't give a **** how much whp you make. All they care about is cam profile, RPM, and their temperature.
Old 04-12-2007, 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by UstaB-GS549
The fatigue life of a spring is mostly determined by load and number of cycles. The load is determined by seat load (valve closed) and the increase in spring load due to cam lift (valve open). Unless you are reving the engine to the point of valve float, the seat load and load at max lift don't change. This is why I think the theory of not reving the engine until oil is up to temperature, is urban legend.

My guess it has more to do with the manufacturing of the wire used in the 2002 cars that had failures. Metallurgy was off a bit, heat treat wasn't quite right, a small nick in wire where the spring changes OD at the top.
Oil temp just gives you an idea of the temperature of the metal of the spring. Sure it matters. A spring being squashed rapidly when it is -300 degrees will shatter, one an +300 degrees will not. I think it's safe to say one at 30 degrees is more likely to fracture when squashed rapidly (high RPMs) than when it's at 180 degrees.
Old 04-12-2007, 09:37 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by ptindall
Oil temp just gives you an idea of the temperature of the metal of the spring. Sure it matters. A spring being squashed rapidly when it is -300 degrees will shatter, one an +300 degrees will not. I think it's safe to say one at 30 degrees is more likely to fracture when squashed rapidly (high RPMs) than when it's at 180 degrees.

Temperature factor Kd decreases with increasing temperature. The rotating beam endurance limit is multiplied by the modifying factors (like Kd) to calculate the corrected fatigue endurance limit. In other words a fatigue failure is more likely at a higher temperature than a lower temperature. That is why I believe warming an engine does nothing beneficial for the valve springs as far as fatigue failures go. It's urban legend.
Old 04-12-2007, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by UstaB-GS549
Temperature factor Kd decreases with increasing temperature. The rotating beam endurance limit is multiplied by the modifying factors (like Kd) to calculate the corrected fatigue endurance limit. In other words a fatigue failure is more likely at a higher temperature than a lower temperature. That is why I believe warming an engine does nothing beneficial for the valve springs as far as fatigue failures go. It's urban legend.
Sounds logical to me... I think the warm up cycle has more to do with the fluid temps than anything else.
Old 04-12-2007, 12:35 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by UstaB-GS549
Temperature factor Kd decreases with increasing temperature. The rotating beam endurance limit is multiplied by the modifying factors (like Kd) to calculate the corrected fatigue endurance limit. In other words a fatigue failure is more likely at a higher temperature than a lower temperature. That is why I believe warming an engine does nothing beneficial for the valve springs as far as fatigue failures go. It's urban legend.
Temperature is usually not even used as a factor in fatigue analysis as Shigley mentions. Surface finish is much more important.

There will be a point when metal gets so cold that it becomes more brittle. I don't know what that would be for this spring steel. I believe every metallic alloy has what's called a ductile/brittle transition temp. You don't want to stress it below this. In the 40's this was the cause of the loss of many of the liberty ships--the cold water of the North Atlantic and poor metallurgy and design (sharp geometry).

It is not ridiculous to think that cold starts (especially if it is -20F outside) with quick rev to high rpm could lead to an early failure if the spring was not made right. GM would test under these conditions--but maybe they didn't rev it and let it warm properly before high rpm in their tests.
Old 04-12-2007, 12:47 PM
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Since no one has mentioned it yet I will. The 01 Z06 springs are colored blue. In 2002 when they changed the camshaft they also changed the springs. This is when they went to the new yellow spring in the Ls6 heads. The yellow valve springs are good to around .560 lift. As mentioned before springs do not break based on hp but on cam lift and rpms. You also have to check items like install height and know when coil bind will occur if you are using different springs.
Old 04-14-2007, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by dwjz06
I have a 2002 Z with a 10/2001 build date. 52,000 plus miles with no spring issues. Let the car warm up to temperature At least 175. The last I checked there was only one GM spring listed which is yellow in color.
my z was born 10/2001 also! we have twins!

ive got 27k on mine and i'm swapping springs and molly pushrods I am the third owner, god knows what the other owners did!
Old 04-14-2007, 05:06 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by dwjz06
I have a 2002 Z with a 10/2001 build date. 52,000 plus miles with no spring issues. Let the car warm up to temperature At least 175. The last I checked there was only one GM spring listed which is yellow in color.
my z was born 10/2001 also! we have twins!

ive got 27k on mine and i'm swapping springs and molly pushrods I am the third owner, god knows what the other owners did!

tranny and rear end had original fluid in it all flushed and new now
Old 04-14-2007, 07:33 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by rustyguns
my z was born 10/2001 also! we have twins!

ive got 27k on mine and i'm swapping springs and molly pushrods I am the third owner, god knows what the other owners did!
I might hold off if I were you. I haven't read of any failures here from an early 2002 made before Jan 2002.

Then again, other circumstances will affect your decision, such as if you are doing your own work or if you already had to eat a big repair,etc.
Old 04-14-2007, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by sothpaw2
I haven't read of any failures here from an early 2002 made before Jan 2002.

.
Are you implying that some made AFTER Jan. '02 failed ?
Old 04-14-2007, 11:52 AM
  #34  
dwjz06
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Originally Posted by rustyguns
my z was born 10/2001 also! we have twins!

ive got 27k on mine and i'm swapping springs and molly pushrods I am the third owner, god knows what the other owners did!

tranny and rear end had original fluid in it all flushed and new now
Cool what color is your Z?. Glad you changed the fluids out. How do you like it?

Last edited by dwjz06; 04-14-2007 at 12:01 PM.
Old 04-14-2007, 02:11 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by bernrex
Are you implying that some made AFTER Jan. '02 failed ?
Yes. There have been a number on this board and others that I have read about. Do a search right now and you'll find one.

The obvious commonality that I have found with these reported failures is that they are Z06's made in Calendar year 2002. Mileage varies greatly from 15,000 miles to 77,000 miles, with most examples towards the high mileage end of the scale. These are stock engines, mind you. Most of them do not have to rebuild, as the valve didn't drop, but there were several who did need a new motor.
Old 04-15-2007, 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by sothpaw2
I might hold off if I were you. I haven't read of any failures here from an early 2002 made before Jan 2002.

Then again, other circumstances will affect your decision, such as if you are doing your own work or if you already had to eat a big repair,etc.
doing my own work i'm an old greasemonkey
Old 04-15-2007, 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by dwjz06
Cool what color is your Z?. Glad you changed the fluids out. How do you like it?
Black on black baby!

fast ****! , And damn scary with the computer off Spins all over the place!

I like it Little heavy for me but i will get used to it ,need better tires cheap kumhos came with it, nice but i'm getting road race slicks(kumho v710)

and I am not waiting a year to learn how to drive on street tires they are dangerous!

i break loose and hit the wall it's my problem

not the cars

and will do cam and 100 shot in the next few months hehe

after about two sets of tires

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To '02-'04 LS6 Valve spring= LS2 valve spring

Old 04-15-2007, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by sothpaw2
Yes. There have been a number on this board and others that I have read about. Do a search right now and you'll find one.

The obvious commonality that I have found with these reported failures is that they are Z06's made in Calendar year 2002. Mileage varies greatly from 15,000 miles to 77,000 miles, with most examples towards the high mileage end of the scale. These are stock engines, mind you. Most of them do not have to rebuild, as the valve didn't drop, but there were several who did need a new motor.
100 bucks for springs-vs $6,000 for engine

cheap insurance plus GM pushrods suck at high rpm's!
Old 04-16-2007, 03:28 PM
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There is nothing confusing about this spring issue.. The 01 z06 had NO spring breakage issues "at low load" if anyone knows of any I would be interested to hear. In 02 the increased cam size there are breakages at zero or near zero load This leads me to believe the warmup is not a factor, it is the springs failing due to the lift of the bigger cam.

Now in mid 03 GM changed the springs (This is what people are referring to as the ls2 spring, but in fact it is the new spring made to allieviate the breakage problem, although these are infact the springs that are now used in the ls2 , do you know why? BECAUSE THEY DIDNT BREAK IN THE LS6 I did alot of research on this after having 2 seperate breakages this was after no or low load and proper warmup.. imo it is cheap insurance to replace your springs for peace of mind.. I had many pm's and responses of this happening.

Old 04-16-2007, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by 03QuicksilverZ06
There is nothing confusing about this spring issue.. The 01 z06 had NO spring breakage issues "at low load" if anyone knows of any I would be interested to hear. In 02 the increased cam size there are breakages at zero or near zero load This leads me to believe the warmup is not a factor, it is the springs failing due to the lift of the bigger cam.

Now in mid 03 GM changed the springs (This is what people are referring to as the ls2 spring, but in fact it is the new spring made to allieviate the breakage problem, although these are infact the springs that are now used in the ls2 , do you know why? BECAUSE THEY DIDNT BREAK IN THE LS6 I did alot of research on this after having 2 seperate breakages this was after no or low load and proper warmup.. imo it is cheap insurance to replace your springs for peace of mind.. I had many pm's and responses of this happening.

howe often do you change your springs? you think is 20k miles a good number?

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