Trigger Creep

Sneed won't insure a 4x4. otherwise, they're just what I'm looking for.

I have a C5 and another late model show car I want to insure at a value.

You guys have any experience with this type of insurance?

John McGraw

Stated value insurance, in most cases, is an incredibly poor value. It limits the carriers exposure without necessarily obligating them to pay the stated value at loss!

Agreed value policies will pay the limit of the policy in case of total loss.

The stated value policy could be looked upon as an Actual Cash Value policy, with a stated cap on the limit.

People buy stated value policies every day thinking that they are Agreed Value policies, but they will find the difference if they ever have atotal loss claim. If the policy does not state that both parties Agree to the value of the car limit, then it is not an Agreed Value policy.

Regards, John McGraw

Trophy Blue

I have stated value insurance. How do I go about getting agreed value insurance? Thanks.

John McGraw

Most of the collector car insurance companies sell agreed value insurance. Grundy, Hagerty, American Collectors, are just a few.
There are several policies that have a stated value on the first page of the policy, but further back in the policy, they do state that both parties agree that the stated value is the value of the car in case of loss. The proof is in the language of the policy. If this type of language is not there, then the policy is not a Agreed Value policy.

Without this language, you will be at the mercy of the insurance adjuster in case of a loss. It is not inconcievable to pay premiums based upon a $50,000 stated value for years, only to be offered half of that in case of a total loss. This is especially problematic in case of a theft, where the car does not exsist any longer for a independent apprasier to place a value on it. In this case, the burden of proof of the value of the car would be on your back. Without this proof of value, the adjuster might set a very low value for the car, and you only recourse would be to take you insurance company to court.

Read your insurance policy well, and understand what you have. It could save you much pain in the future! I can not imagine why anybody would buy a stated value policy, and my instincts tell me that the only reason that they are sold, is that companies mislead people into think that it is the same as an agreed value policy.

Regards, John McGraw

SIXt7

I generally agree with McGraw. Do NOT rely on your agent to explain or know much about the adjustment process in case of a loss. Also, agents usually have little or no pull with the adjuster or the company they sell for. Some policies have an appraisal or arbitration clause that kicks in in case of a dispute. This is meant to settle disputes short of going to court. It's usually less expensive and quicker than court. I've been in an insurance related business for 30 years, having also served as an arbitrator and referee hundreds of times. I can assure you that what you think will happen on your claim will likely not happen. These comments are generally for State Farm, Allstate and the like. The collector speciality companies are usually much, much better.

Trigger Creep

Great info. Any other personal experiences?

JohnZ

John is correct - "stated value" does NOTHING for you - all it does is to "cap" the maximum amount the insurance company is obligated to pay; the actual total loss settlement is still subject to the same depreciation/valuation formulas they use for "daily driver" ordinary auto policies.

The only way you're protected is with an "agreed value" collector policy; in the event of a total loss, they send you a check for that amount, period; no negotiation, no depreciation/valuation formulas, no arguments, no nothing.

John Ulrich

http://lelandwest.com/What_You_Should_Know.cfm

ZR1Owner

I put Haggerty Agreed value on my 4 vettes. I saved about $1,400 per year total, and have a set, no- BS or argument value in case of loss. Before I made this change, Nationwide valued my 1967 at $45K :-)....yeah right.....in the trash heap......the car is fully restored!

Moz Ray

I use State Farm under their "Limited Use Antique/Classic Policy." My agent has a collection of classic cars in his 40,000 sq. ft. facility, which includes an 8,000 sq. ft. garage with two hydraulic lifts. So, he is very familiar with classic car insurance. I will, however, double check the wording of this Policy. Thanks for the info.

Moz Ray

Someone please disect the policy below, and advise me. Thanks

The wording of the State Farm under their Limited Use Antique/Classic Policy is, "The limit of our liability for loss to property or any part of is the lower of:

1. the actual cash value; or
2. the cost of repair or replacement.

You and we agree that the actual cash value is the amount shown on the declarations page unless:

1. your car has been damaged;
2. parts have been removed from your car; or
3. your car’s condition has changed due to abuse or neglect

after the amount shown on the declarations page was agreed to and prior to the loss.

The cost or repair or replacement is based upon one of the following:

1. the cost of repair or replacement agreed upon by you and us;
2. a competitive bid approved by us,
3. an estimate written based upon the prevailing competitive price (referring to repairs) . . . such parts may include either parts furnished by the vehicle’s manufacturer or parts from other resources including non-original equipment manufacturers.

We have the right to settle a loss with you or the owner of the property in one of the following ways:

1. pay the agreed upon actual cash value of the property as determined above in exchange for the damaged property. If the owner keeps the damaged property, we will deduct its value after the loss from our payment. The damaged proper cannot be abandoned to us;
2. pay to:

a. repair the damaged proper or part, or
b. replace the property or part.

If the repair or replacement results in betterment, you must pay for the amount of betterment; or

3. return the stolen property and pay for any damage due to the theft."

Moshe

vettnut

I have applied for insurance recently from Hagerty. Would I be somehow better served to go through a local agent who handles Hagerty or go it alone with Hagerty? Any advantages either side? Thanks DG

bweaver999

I purchased mine directly from them. Not sure they have agents that sell it.

toddalin

Seems to me that if you have an accident, then they don't have to give you the stated value, so it would only apply to theft.

"You and we agree that the actual cash value is the amount shown on the declarations page unless:

1. your car has been damaged"


If you get into an accident and the car is totalled, isn't it damaged? I don't see where they say "damaged prior to the accident in question...", but then I'm not a lawyer. I'm just reading what you stated.

Moz Ray

Hmmm. Something ain't quite right. Time to do some more homework. Thanks for your help.

Moz Ray

All is okay at the A.K. Coral.

The "damage" Referred to in the policy is not the "loss" (which I thought originally). I did clarify this with State Farm.

One example:

While backing out the car out of the garage, the side view mirror bangs into the garage door side frame and it is wrenched off the car door. No repairs are done. Then the car is damaged in an accident (Oh God, please no!!). The “loss” is reported to State Farm. State Farm discovers that the mirror had been previously ripped off from the door. The Actual Cash Value of the car now is the original ACV agreed to earlier minus the cost for the mirror repairs. The payout of the “loss” claim will be based upon this new ACV.

State Farm's Antique/Classic Car Insurance Endorsement is worth considering. There are no mileage restrictions, and occasionally, one can drive it to work!

54greg

Great post thanks for the infor

JoesC5

Two of our club members are State Farm agents(different offices) and we have had this discussion regarding their coverage of collector cars. They will pay the agreed valve, as stated on the policy, in class of a total loss. They consider a total loss as being more then 80% of agreed value to repair the car. So, if you have a car that has a agreed value of $45,000 and it is a total loss then they will cut you a check for $45,000. If the repair cost is less then 80% of the agreed value, they will pay that amount to repair your car. What is different from that policy and Hagerty's or any other Collector car Insurance Co ? To answer my own question--none. They will all pay the agreed amount, including State Farm, if you have a total loss. Your premium is based on the agreed amount and that is what they pay off, including State Farm. BTW, can anyone provide a link to a glossary of insurance terms that spells out exactly what "agreed value" and "stated value" are? I'm talking about a glossary that is used by the insurance industry, not a "marketing tool" used by a select group of companies to try and make their product sound like it provides coverage that other insurance companies don't.

Lloyds glossary has the following:

"Agreed value policy

An insurance contract under which the insurer agrees to pay the insured a stated amount in the event of the total loss of the property insured without any adjustment for depreciation or appreciation."

Lloyds has no listing for "stated value".

If you read their listing for a "agreed value policy", you will note that they will pay a "stated" amount.

My conclusion is that their are no such terms in the insurance industry, as a whole, regarding "agreed value" and "stated value" policy's. Hagerty(and other specialty ins. co's) and State Farm will pay off the amount the policy holder and the insurance company both agree is the value of the car in case of a total loss and will pay what it cost to repair the car if the damages are less then the agreed value.

MikeM

I have the State Farm Classic Car insurance endorsement on five of my cars. It appears the language on the Declarations Page ("you and we agree") covers the value of the car in the event of a total loss.

I also just recently had an independent adjuster read the endorsement. He doesn't see anything in the language that would allow State Farm to short change my expectations in the event of a total loss.

Sometime back, maybe a year or so ago, I conducted a survey on another forum asking if anyone who had the State Farm Classic Car policy endorsement had had any settelment problems with a claim. Some respondents said they had the policy but no claims. One person went on to say he'd been screwed by State Farm because he had a "standard policy" (no Classic Car indorsement) and suffered a total loss. His settlement was far less than his expectations. Others went on with the usual of their house caught fire, tornado damage, flood, etc., and there were varying degrees of satisfaction expressed there.

So, as far as I'm concerned, the State Farm Collector Car policy is a good deal for me, especially the premium.

Moz Ray

So that one has an "accurate" value of a classic car, the market value must be reviewed at least once each year. If the loss happens at $50K, but the market says $65K, my policy will payout $50K. That's why it is important to check the market value at least once a year. My agent and I have discussed this issue.

The main web site which I have used to establish an ACV, as shown and as Agreed to on the Declaration's Page, is http://www.manheimgold.com. Manheim Auctions’ reps. travel both domestically and internationally to gather info and prices for all cars sold so they can give a good market value for any given car. I've given this info for each of the classic cars I own to my agent, and he has used it as basis to insure both of my classic cars. He is very familiar with classics. He has many classic cars in his collection stored in his 40,000 sf (!!) facility in which is housed an 8,000 sf garage with two hydraulic lifts!


Moshe