philip964

Ok here is number three. Lots of '67s at the auction this year. All 427/435.



Real or Restamp ? You guys are the experts, I'm just here to learn.

MosportGreen66

I like the broach marks. But don't know enough about engine pads to say further.

Kensmith

If it isn't real, sure did a nice job!

Tintin

I am no expert by any means , but that 5 looks crooked and odd. Maybe that is normal like my ripply bumpers, but most striking tools line up. I say it is fake - but I would take a real expert with me if I were going to be a buyer.

knight37128

Fake

Bubba with a belt sander, file, or what ever.

This is just my opinion. The depth of the "broach" marks should vary. As the cutting plate wears, deep gouges should appear. It just makes sense (to me). It is cutting metal to metal.

just my .02

vetarun

I will agree with Ken. If it is fake, they sure did a good job. I vote real. Just my guess though.

Harps

No expert here either, but I think the broach marks look good, as well as the overall positioning of the numbers. The "5" is a little off, but didn't those "gang" stamps have a little play in them?

My vote is for real.

philip964

Boy I thought this one would fly though with flying colors, but it seems not everyone is together on this one, also.

I thought the little bits of orange paint inside the letters was a really nice touch too.

My assumption the engine was stamped before it was painted and so normally brand new this pad is painted orange. I have also assumed NCRS accepts the removal of the paint on this pad for judging and does not mark off for this.

Again your the experts here.

This car was advertised as "matching number" at the auction.

67L36Driver

Some observations:
1. They had to sharpen the 'broach' cutter teeth once in a while so you will have a variation on the finish.
2. Engine plant stamp the only character that will be consistant is the F or the T, the date changed daily and the suffix from one engine to the next. After thousands of engines the holder got sloppy.
3. Vin deritive stamp is same deal as the engine plant, constantly changing.

I'd be skeptical if everything lined up perfectly and had consistant depth. 'Joe' the stamper did not have the NCRS looking over his shoulder. Plus, he didn't give a rat's **** what it looked like.

Real.................................... .enough.

KyleDallas

I'd have to agree to that....my signature became a few squigley marks
when I was forced to sign it 300 times per day... After years of that
you're just whippin it through... if it's legible..it's o.k.

ctjackster

on your orange paint point - the pad was masked with a piece of tape during painting, the orange paint in the numbers in the photo got in there later on in this engine's life, when the block was repainted or someone simply hit the area with the rattle can

JohnZ

The engine plant gang holder only changed once a day (to set up the date for the next day's run); there was a separate gang holder for as many suffixes as would be run in a given day (30 different suffixes, 30 gang holders set up for that day).

The assembly plant VIN derivative gang holder dies were changed for every unit that came down the line (the last die every unit, the second-to-last die every ten units, etc.).

philip964

Would that then explain why the 71 is so much heavier than the other numbers on the vin in this particular image? IE used more. Or I guess could be just held on that corner rather than level when stamped.

Zigler

I have a question that perhaps JohnZ or someone else here can answer for me. Was the Tonawanda ID stamp (or Flint as appropriate) struck after the engine is assembled or was it stamped on bare blocks being fed into the assembly process? If after assembly, how does the gang holder clear the pipe plug on the end of the cylinder head? I would assume the plug on BB's would interfere, causing the stamp to shift outboard. Most of the pictures I see here look like the stamps are close enough to the head to suggest they were done on bare blocks before assembly, let alone paint.

I am not calling this one a restamp. Like others, I am here to learn.

Thanks.
- Brad

knight37128

They were struck before the heads went on.

I don't know when, but I know that.

JohnZ

All small-block pads were stamped after the heads went on. Big-block pads were stamped just BEFORE the heads went on (so the plug wasn't in the way); that left open access to the inboard end of the pad so the car assembly plants could stamp the VIN there. On small-blocks, the engine plant stamp was on the inboard end of the pad, and the VIN stamp was on the outboard end of the pad.

philip964

Thanks for responding JohnZ. The wealth of knowlege on this website is amazing to me.

I plan to summarize these all the engine pads at some point. Do we have a group agreement on this pad yet?

bluestreak63

Looks real to me...