jackson

The same ebayer that's offering the BBC heads also offers a 190cc runner BARE Al head for sbc ... looks like his lowest buy it now price is $426/pr plus $60 shipping/pr total $486.

I've done a rudimentary purchase-cost comparison between above heads and Brodix IK180 / IK200 BARE Al sbc heads. Looks like they can be had from several sources (aka Motorville) for about $650/pr and shipping would probably be about half what that ebayer is squeezing from his ebay customers.

Either ebay procomp or Brodix IK ... both bare sbc heads have same valve train requirements ... so no cost differences there.

Brodix publishes port size/recommends a gasket P/N for their heads. No such info on the sbc procomp stuff ... and I've heard of several ill-fit/no-fit intake issues w/ sbc procomp

By all accounts, the procomp and its ilk are of asian origin. AFAIK, all Brodix's processes are in North America.

It looks like you could have Brodix (delivery inclusive) for about $100 more per head ... or about $200 more per pair.

If you're building a motor w/ Al heads ... safe to assume you're gonna have at least $2500 in it ... if not $5K. Seems the step up from procomp to Brodix works out to an "average" premium of about 4 to 8 percent/sbc long block.

carbster09

Hey lets face facts the vette is an American car; thus mine will have American parts wherever possible. Now if you want to use Chinese heads, wheels etc ... go buy a Chinese car! Oops no "cool" ones about eh? Well wait a few years and you'll be able to get an American "built"; British car, i.e. an MG sports cars owned by a Chinese company. Yes, strange but true! The MG car company of England was bought by a Chinese company and they are thinking about putting a plant up in the USA....

and just **** people off

- auto worker don't get $200k per year
- the CEO of Goldman Sachs just got a $53 million bonus
- nobody anywhere in the world can complete with $1/hour wages!

That's why we need "fair" NOT free trade ...

In short I agree with L88plus! Remember when a country fails to produce anything its standard of living will most surely recede.

I wouldn't even think of those cheap heads. In fact I want a stoker crank, but USA made ones are too $$$, so I'll just keep with 454+ CID, that's a enough to beat most!

carbster09

GOSFAST

Let me just say I'm no great fan of ANY "off-shore" (imported) pieces and don't agree the with the direction this country's heading. BUT, many people who enjoy this "automotive" area would be hard-pressed to complete any projects without the affordableness (?) of many of the parts. I'd much rather be milling, porting, or building units with "off-shore" pieces than not be working on anything all. This is strictly how I see things from a business standpoint.

Having all levels of customers, from the "budget" guy's to the ones that don't have any idea of the word budget, we get to use ALL components. MOST of my own people have a budget in mind and we are very willing to work witin the parameters of that number.

Now having said that, I can tell you we have done extensive testing on the SB (Pro-Comps) and find them to be an excellent deal. This is with keeping the overall price in mind. You WILL hit 450 HP on a base 383 stroker with a 10:1 C.R. and a fairly mild hyd-roller cam. This setup is just about a "bolt-together" deal with NO porting whatsoever, just some very minor gasket matching!

You can most likely hit the same H.P. number on a 350 SB, but with some lower torque numbers. It may take some add'l work also with the smaller inch platform, but I would say the numbers are possible.

Now for the WARNING! We had been approached buy the vendor to take on the BB heads. They sent some in to work with and do much checking. After a few hours measuring and "flowing" the pieces we decided to pass altogether on the BB's only. They ARE a useable piece but it becomes too costly from a business end to handle them.

Read this line very carefully: "THE MAIN REASON WE PASSED ON THE BB's ONLY" is due to the fact they are using valve seats that are only .250" deep, this is way too risky on a BB with some large valves.
All aftermarket heads run seats that are about .375" deep. This extra depth helps keep the seats in where they belong instead of "dropping" out! Hope some of this helps you guys. Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. I placed a shot of one unit here with the SB's in place that made 435 HP and is 100% maintenance free. Runs fine on 89 and races fine on 93. These are the "Pro-Comp" Chinese with an older Scorpion intake.

nelson71

Great info GOSFAST. Thanks. I will admit that I am not very knowledgable about machine work. The valve seat concern is the exact info that is needed. How does that .250 depth compare with what the factory GM parts? Are these cheap heads thinner castings than an old L88 style head or just thinner than the current aftermarket standard?

Not trying to argue, I just want to make sure I understand what we're talking about.

GOSFAST

Hi Nelson, look at it this way, you will only have .250" in the head and remember much of the actual seat itself is removed while they're machining for the valve angles. Like I said, we will not touch the BB's, as of today.

The castings themselves are about 5# or 6# lighter than most others, this is quite a bit of "missing" material, especially aluminum. A decent BB aluminum head weighs about 35#, if you break down the numbers, it
says there's about 15% less in the "off-shore" ones.

As I said above the factory seat inserts are about .375" deep. There would be a number of unanswered questions, like how good would the "torque" settings hold on a light casting, how good would a head gasket maintain it's seal, etc. I say this because I believe the 4 "missing" head bolts on the MK-IV units would most definitely be an issue of concern with trying to achieve an effective head gasket seal along with a "light" casting. There's no "clamping force" at these 4 locations.

Think of it this way, if the heads fail for any reason, the 500.00/600.00 or so saved on the up-front cost wouldn't come close to covering the possible repair bill you would be looking at! "Drop" a seat, and many times you can usually "kiss" the block good-bye!

On another note there was never any real issues with any of the G.M. "Winters" casting over the years. They required some extra detail for higher levels of power, particularly in the exhaust rocker stud area, but it was fairly easy to accomplish with longer studs. Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. There may also be some overall cooling issues with respect to the lighter heads. Also, the average person here would have no way to tell if the heads ever got the proper heat-treat or not! It just goes on and on. Not worth the risk!

gyopp

From a listing of US content of new vehicles(sorry, could not find one for 07 ):

2005 Chevrolet Corvette Coupe 6.0v8 6spd Man
USA Owned
USA Assembly- Bowling Green, KY
USA Engine
Mexico Transmission
81% US/Canadian Parts Content

All cars have some foreign content, even ours. Don't take this as support for buying foreign products as I also buy American whenever reasonably possible. This thread has gotten way off track. Each of us has to decide whether we do or do not wish to take advantage of lower pricing of foreign products and we all buy some so don't be to quick to judge.

nelson71

Thanks GOSFAST. Exactly the info I've been looking for. Not only the fact that they are inferior, but also why. That's why forums like this are priceless to those of us who are not master mechanics or machinists.

Happy New Year!

mbeeman350

Re the 190 SB Pro Comp heads. I bought a set, look OK. Have them installed on a 383, just fired it up last night. I have an issue with the plugs. They recommend a Champion C57C (a racing plug which I assume a colder plug) which is discontinued, cross referenced to an NGK BR9ES, a little hotter plug.
Talked to Pro Comp wednesday they receommended a AC R45TSX, looked at the plug at the parts store. It is a short reach, gasket-less plug for an OE head. The pro Comp heads needs a long reach, 3/4", gasket type plug. Also had an issue with valve cover clearance. I have a pair of L-1 GM aluminum covers. They hit the roller rockers on the intake or inbourd side and the flange or lip hits the ram horns on the on the exhaust side.
Another issue is the temp sending unit. Stock was a 1/2" unit but the heads only have provisions for a 3/8" unit...
Anyone using using this head....chime in please
Mark

Billysvette

I have the heads,but have not put them on yet.Your problem with the rockers hitting is not the heads ,its the valve covers,you can grind them down where they hit,different rockers,or different valve covers.you can also try pushing the covers toward the intake side as far as they will go and tighten them down,that worked for me on other engines with that problem.The temp sending unit is a easy fix,they sell reducers that reduce down to the size you need.The spark plug issue i have not come to that one yet,sorry

King Lear

I actually have a set and was wondering the same thing, I talked to them and they re-assured me that if anything went wrong with them the would send me a new set FOC. I was looking at Trick Flow before and they have a whopping 90 days warranty. After 90 days your SOL. I live in Ohio and Summit Racing owns Trick Flow so I was trying to keep my $$$'s here, but 90 days for 1500+ in heads, at least make it a year.
If I had the 2000+ I definatly would have a set of AFR CNC heads.

King Lear

Jims79

I think you get what you pay for. Some things are cheap & good deals on flea-bay but I wouldn't buy heads, carb or motor from them. Let us know how you make out. 02

mbeeman350

Thanks Billsvette, when I get the plug issue sorted out I will post. Currently have an NGK BR9ES
Mark

King Lear

I will check my plugs tomrrow and see what I am running, I know it is an accel.

mbeeman350

Thanks...that woud be great. How did you sort this out or where did you get the info. Pro Comp has been a waste. Nothing shipped with the heads!!!
Mark

69camfrk

I'm with you man. Junior Johnson never hauled any moonshine in a Camry! I'd go with Jegs or Summit house brand heads before I paid for a couple of China's nukes by buying their cylinder heads!

vettenoir

I'm pretty skeptical of 'American quality' I bought my heads (Dart Pro 1's) from a very well-respected local race engine building/machining guru. His comments were that you don't buy assembled aftermarket heads from ANY manufacturer without first totally disassembling them gauging them and thoroughly checking them. I told him that was why I was buying them from him, rather than at a discount off eBay. I bought a set of Dart Pro 1's (not cheap by any means) When they arrived , he invited me over to check them out 'out of the box'. You could see daylight around at least 3 of the valves! He also showed me the mis-alignment of the valve stems. As I am a CAD/CAM software developer he berated the lack of quality from the 'high-tech' CNC machining systems that these places (AFR, Dart, Edelbrock, Brodix, etc.) claim to use. He gets the same problems from all of them. I told him it's not the CNC equipment, it's the fact that their design and process engineers have no clue about how to develop a product or manufacturing process for mass (or even batch) production. The thread on the AFR heads last year backs up my statement. Anyone remember the "The heads in question were made with old tooling. We just got some new tooling." comments from the AFR rep? ANY car company (well except maybe GM with their Quad 4 heads in the early 90's...) can produce pretty close to perfect heads in volumes of 100,000's or 1,000,000's. Too bad the aftermarket manufacturer's can't produce the same quality in volumes of 1000's. I guess it's because we put up with the junk and buy it anyway.

After his valve job, port work and setup, I ended up with a great set of heads

Edzred72

Inexpensive???? Take a look at these...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...6085&rd=1&rd=1

Eddie

Edzred72

Common issue with aftermarket heads. Had my AFR's re-drilled & tapped for sensor.
Eddie

jackson

According to seller's 416/434 description ... those are just well-worn but reconditioned iron "305" heads ... about 58cc-60cc before surfacing ... me thinks seller's stated CR projections are low. Delivered probably $450-$475/pr ... in that range, me thinks vortecs would be a better choice.