Gannet

I got a PM from a friend regarding my recent mod results post. He was basically asking whether I was satisfied with the results and cost, and whether I thought we had gotten all out of the car that was in there. Another tuner was mentioned who he thought might post higher numbers. He asked privately because he didn't want to drag this out into public if I was unhappy.

Well, I don't have a secretive bone in my body, and I ended up writing a tome, so I thought I'd share it here, for whatever it's worth. In case anyone is wondering the tuner who did my work is Greg Lovell at AntiVenom in Seffner, Florida, and I am thoroughly satisfied with his work. But here's the story, so you be the judge. It's written in the tone of talking over beers, and I get a little flowery, so take that into account.

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Hey bud, how's it going?

Yes, the tune cost $500, which is the going rate. Run 4, not shown, actually pulled 5 HP/2 TQ more, but it also started to get a little knock retard once warm, so by mutual agreement we pulled it back some. I won't feel 5 HP, but I'd sure as heck feel a burned piston. I'm an ex-GM engineer, and conservative when it comes to engineering questions.

I guess I would be surprised to see substantially higher numbers with a conservative tune on a LS1 with completely stock longblock. You sure you aren't remembering LS-6 numbers?

One of the reasons I hit it off well with Greg is that we both see things the same way: we're not interested in what something "should" run, we're only interested in the facts. The car is what it is. On the dyno it runs what it runs. But it's no dyno queen. 113.8 trap with more left in it shows it is making the power in the real world.

Greg uses HPTuners. I don't know what all he changed; most of the tune was done when I was not there. Since I had so much done at once I had to leave the car a couple of days, which is not how I usually like to do things.

Actually, $72/hp [for the tune results] would have been one of the cheaper parts of this deal. Want to see some real-world numbers that might depress you? And I think these are a lot more typical than most posters at CF or LS1TECH would have you believe because hey, I can call around and get prices the same as anyone, and the prices I paid are not out of line at all.

Headers: $1845. Yes, $1845. I wanted American Racing because they were the current hot deal. It was those or LGs (about the same price) and I didn't like the band clamps on the LGs. At the time I ordered them I hadn't decided whether I wanted to run catless or not, so I wanted both a catted and catless x-pipe. They charged me $395 extra for a catless x-pipe. If you saw it you'd laugh. Yes, it's beautifully made, but it sure doesn't look like $400 worth of metal. I suppose it is, realistically, but it was a little painful. Still, nobody twisted my arm. I since decided I was going to stick with cats so that was money down the drain, but it's real money that needs to be figured into the cost of this mod package the way it went down in the real world. Oh, and the price on the headers was actually a really good deal, $1450 shipped, you can't get them for that now I don't think.

Callaway Honker was like $435 or something on a group purchase. I didn't want my original fan shroud cut so I bought a new replacement from Fred Beans. That was like $60. Call it $500 in parts.

180 thermostat was about $45. Had the radiator blown out, and flushed and filled with 75% distilled, 20% Dexcool, 5% Water Wetter, and the fans set to 187 and 194. Hey, I live in Florida.

Ported throttle body + core (I wanted to keep my stocker, again) was $250. Catch can was like $90, I don't know if that counts as a "mod" or not, but if it keeps oil out of the intake, and hence reduces knock tendency, it's worth HP.

Installation was $150 for the Callaway, $400 for the headers, $100 for the thermostat (included cooling flush/new fluids), $25 for the catch can, $500 for the dyno tune, $25 for the pre-mod baseline dyno pull. About the same prices I was quoted by other reputable shops. Several small items were done at no charge: raise ride height, pull tunnel plate and install insulation I supplied, MAF descreen. All the work was competently done and the price was fair. I can't kick on the labor.

So lessee, $1845 + 395 + 500 + 45 + 250 +90 + 150 + 400 + 100 + 25 + 500 + 25 = $4325

For 27 rwhp, that's $160/rwhp.

I put that on its own line just so I could sit here and contemplate it.

Ok, if you took out the $395 for the unused x-pipe, it's $146/rwhp. But who ever buys the perfect set of parts, with no do-overs? Nobody I ever met.

Oh yeah, headers, a real good bang for your buck first mod. Not. Did I mention that it's now so freakin loud I may well have to take the Bullets I installed for $650 or so a few weeks ago back off? It sounded better with the factory manifolds too, although I can certainly feel the new power.

Did you ever really look at the factory cast-iron "headers"? They are a killer design, better than the legendary "Super Stock" manifolds that Chrysler did back in the '60s. It's no wonder the best headers only pick up 20 rwhp or so. Peanuts compared to what headers used to get you on a BBC. I almost suspect we jump right to headers as a habit from the olden daze.

Same for the factory air intake. It's a great design. Yeah, it needs to have some holes drilled in the lid, but that's it. The aftermarket ones are little or no better. Did I mention the much-touted Callaway is chewing up my previously-perfect hood liner?

I didn't mention the non-performance work I had done at the same time: new insulation blanket for the tunnel plate was like $125, at least the install was free. New shifter installed for $255, actually the best bang/buck of the mods imo, I love it. New gas and dead pedal was like $100-something plus $25 for install. Call it 5 large plus change to get it where it is, including the Bullets. That's not counting the grand or two already dropped on doo-dads of one sort or another.

And now my clutch is giving up with the new power, so I need to baby it until I can get a new one, as this is my go-to-work car, and I still need to do that to pay for all this.

It's loud as ****, loud enough to rattle stuff in the car sometimes. It revs way high on cold starts, like 1500 rpm, and rump-rumps a tiny amount for the first few hundred feet, which it never did before (don't let it sit to warm up at 6:30 AM anymore now that it's so loud). Other than that it runs great. I'm not worried about having the tune tweaked because I intend to buy my own software soon and I'll do it myself. I think it might get worse mileage, but that might be, heck probably is, due entirely to the visits of a certain Mr. Right Foot, who is admittedly a jolly sort of fellow, although perhaps morbidly obese. Ho-Ho-Ho.

Ok, enough of the whining and the bitching. What about the good parts?

The car is just unbelievably fast. I know, I know, all the guys with turbo-blower-LC925R cars are laughing their butts off at that, but that just shows how jaded we've become. The car generates serious speed, I mean like go-to-jail serious, if you just look at it encouragingly for a couple seconds. Just passing people reasonably normally on a back road and you see 110 in about the same amount of time it takes to snap your fingers. Long train of cars? Woops, 130. It ran a 12.69 @113.8 on 5-year-old EMTs that have the approximate consistency of granite, no burnout, and a way-out-of-practice old phart driving on his third pass in the car, and third this decade. I think it has a 12.40 at over 114 in it on new tires.

I was just sitting here watching SPEED channel and they were having an episode on Camaros. This guy was showing off his lovely '69 COPO 427/425 Camaro, a car I LUSTED after when I was a kid, and which was so bad-*** it was from another planet, and he was braggin on how it trapped 108.

108. I would eat that COPO alive and spit it out, and get 25 mpg on the way home. All with my totally stock 200k-mile-worthy LS1 longblock with all emission equipment hooked up. And my car looks sexier, and actually handles and stops. And has a red leather interior. And a glass roof.

Suddenly I was very, very happy.

The car makes rude and dirty noises to all and sundry. It *wails*, and I mean that's the sound it makes. Sounds incredible. It might be too loud, haven't decided yet, but goldang does it ever sound like a race car. The thing is gonna get me in trouble, because I keep going too fast just to listen to it.

Shifter is fantastic, love it, shifts like a race car should shift.

With the cooling mods it runs between 189 and 199 ALL THE TIME. I mean sit and idle for 20 minutes with the hood closed, 199. As soon as you move it's back down to 192. Get it on the freeway, 189. Run it at the drag strip, cool it to 140 or so in the lanes, it rises to 198 in the bleach box, and is back to 192 at the end of the run. Now that was a new experience.

So I dunno. It was way a whole ton lot of money. But it puts a grin on my face like no car I've ever driven. And, except maybe for the noise, it's still a real car. I told Greg what my idea of a real street car is: drive it down to Bradenton, drive it straight from the gate to the staging lanes, make a pass, drive it to California, find a track, make a pass, all without one adjustment or change. And post great numbers both places, with some flat-out on whatever closed course I can find in between. THAT'S a street car, and that's what I've got. So all in all, I'm thrilled with it. Just wish it hadn't cost so much. Well, if there's one thing I've learned in my 52 years, it's that the best things in life ain't free, they cost, and the better they are the more they cost.

Best. Car. Ever.

I hate to go to bed at night because that means I can't drive it any more that day. I gots it bad, I tell ya.

The future? Well, I told Greg to think about this little conundrum: NHRA rules say you need a roll bar at 11.50, and a cage at 135. I told him about how I had no intention of putting a bar in my car, and that I didn't want to hear about drag radials and airing down and all that crap, and how a real street car should do what I outlined above, with California and all, and do it on pump premium. I also told him how I am a lot fonder of top end than ET. And I asked him to think hard about all that.

So yeah, ultimate goal being considered at this time is a car that will do 135 at 11.50 (yes, I know how silly that combination sounds) and do it in FULL street trim, and do it reliably, and do it for 100k miles. Likely it's not possible. But what the heck, it's a challenge. I might be willing to compromise and run N2O at the strip for the last 10 MPH of top end; I can be patient enough to use a little more room getting the number up sans N2O on longer closed courses as needed.

If I got wood over cars, this car would make me feel like Ron Jeremy.

ScottN

foremaw

Great write-up. Thanks for the info and the facts

Vetteman Jack

Very nice writeup on the good and bad of modding.

VET IT B

Great write. I like it. Mark

jaysal555

Great write up!

peter pan

Very nice write up and way to be honest about cost what even a little hp cost. I spent lots more to go from 317 rwhp to 742 rwhp and I spent 15.5k on performance, not including brakes or other mods and my costs for those come out to $36.50 or so per hp, but I spent lots and still doing apperance mods

LMB-Z

Great post

gja

very well put.

I too was contemplating the cost vs. hp issue. But you're right, when I'm driving it, there's a whole lot more to the story than speed.

The feel, the sound, how the car never seems to stop impressing me, and how every other car I have lusted after just disappear.

This is what corvette ownership is all about.

Ryan L

Buy a tastefully modded used Vette for the same price and spend $0/hp like I did.

vms4evr

Thanks for an honest assessment of your mods.

I have the GM High Performance book and it still follows the old school mantra. First thing to do to wake up any LSx engine. Long tube headers. With that said though I don't care what these vendors say about their headers. There is no way I'm giving them $1500 for a set of headers. This Corvette Tax we are paying is crazy.

Bottom line is it's your checkbook and your car. I'm glad you are enjoying the car. At the end of the day that's what counts.

Bounty Hunter 6

Great write-up my friend! I'm glad to see how you broke it down and it makes perfect sense now. I remember when you first posted, I was thinking, "man, am I the only one that thinks it should have Dyno'd more?" But there is more to it than just the Dyno numbers, with the new sound, SOTP feel, etc. I'm glad you're happy with it, and I'm jealous! I can't wait to mod some more!!

Glen

oldschoolvette

Thanks

LIVEC5

Great write up thanks for sharing