Kumo's hurt re-sale?
12-07-2006, 04:14 PM
#41
Burning Brakes
I wouldn't worry too much about Resale until your Boss hands you a Pink Envelope, the Wife has the garage full of Moving boxes and your Dog has been lovenly staring at the Cat next door. .....Then worry.
12-07-2006, 04:47 PM
#42
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by Dave68
Those who love Kumhos have probably never tried the GSD3s. I spoke to three different Tire Rack people about these tires and each one agreed that the Goodyear GSD3s are "superior" tires.
Even Consumer Reports rated the GSD3s first and the Kumhos last.
As far as resale value, I agree that tires are wear items, but if I were looking at a C5 wearing Kumhos, I would certainly drill the owner about other things that may point to "skimping". Some C5 owners actually use petroleum-based oil instead of full-synthetic. It's buyer beware when red flags are evident.
Even Consumer Reports rated the GSD3s first and the Kumhos last.
As far as resale value, I agree that tires are wear items, but if I were looking at a C5 wearing Kumhos, I would certainly drill the owner about other things that may point to "skimping". Some C5 owners actually use petroleum-based oil instead of full-synthetic. It's buyer beware when red flags are evident.
It not hard to find reports on how the GSD3 out performs most. I just pulled one review.
12-07-2006, 06:16 PM
#43
Race Director
I have a C4 with Kumhos and a C5 with Kumho run flats..I pity the fool who wouldn't buy a Vette because it had Kumho's on it!!!
12-07-2006, 07:19 PM
#44
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Originally Posted by Dave68
As far as resale value, I agree that tires are wear items, but if I were looking at a C5 wearing Kumhos, I would certainly drill the owner about other things that may point to "skimping". Some C5 owners actually use petroleum-based oil instead of full-synthetic. It's buyer beware when red flags are evident.
I guess I am just having a hard time understanding why NOT spending twice as much for a tire for very little improvement makes one dishonest in regards to how they would treat the mechanical aspect of their vehicle.
Last edited by Slade; 12-07-2006 at 07:21 PM.
12-07-2006, 08:39 PM
#46
Drifting
Our 97 came with KUMHO ASX's on it last August and I have been happy with them as they are much quieter than the runflats and give me the traction necessary for the kind of driving I do when we take the Vette out for some exercise. However, I do not drive our Vette hard or burn up the rear tires.
12-07-2006, 08:45 PM
#47
Race Director
Originally Posted by Vega$Vette
HOLD ON A MINUTE
This evaluation was done with BMWs. How does this relate to how a Tire may or may not perform on a Vette?
You need to compare tire performance based on a similar vehicle to get useful information.
This evaluation was done with BMWs. How does this relate to how a Tire may or may not perform on a Vette?
You need to compare tire performance based on a similar vehicle to get useful information.
"Productreview: F1 GS D3
By Dan Barnes
Photography: Dan Barnes
Designed in Europe, the Eagle F1 GS D3 is Goodyear's "first truly global product," and its first tire aimed at the maximum-performance tire segment. The Eagle F1 GS D3 targets sport compact and tuner vehicles, and follows Goodyear's traditional emphases of maximum wet performance and good, all-around driveability. Goodyear is producing the Eagle F1 GS D3 in 39 sizes, from 15 to 21 inches.
The Eagle F1 GS D3 has internal construction features expected from the latest maximum-performance tire, including high-tensile steel belts, spiral-wound cap plies for excellent roundness and high-speed durability, high ply turn-up for strong sidewalls and quick response, and a rim flange protector molded into the sidewall.
It's the tread design that sets the new Eagle apart. It's divided into three zones; a solid center rib for good steering response is connected to shoulders with large, solid tread blocks by a series of power transfer bridges. The latter are part of what Goodyear calls V-TRED. The diagonal grooves are three times the length of the contact patch, helping evacuate water and avoid trapping air, thus reducing noise. Goodyear refers to the tread compound by the AAtrax moniker, emphasizing the tire's AA UTQG traction rating.
We sampled the Eagle F1 GS D3 at Goodyear's proving grounds outside San Angelo, Texas. The 7,250-acre facility has 58 miles of roadway with 53 different surfaces. There we witnessed demonstrations of wet-traction testing with a pickup truck and trailer test rig, as well as the phosphorescent hydroplaning test made famous in Aquatred commercials. The latter can be done at speeds approaching 200 mph for racing applications. We also drove the new Eagle F1 on a dry-handling loop in 2002 Audi A4 sedans. At moderate to high slip angles, the Eagle F1 felt like a good, ultra-high-performance tire, but it does make more noise than most tires in the maximum-performance category when cornering loads rise. The grip-slip knee in the load/slip-angle curve was very gradual. That made the tire extremely forgiving, but it also made it difficult to decide how hard the tire wanted to be pushed for best speed. Overall, though, the strongest impression was that the Eagle F1's capabilities were well beyond those of the stock Audi's suspension, and a complete evaluation would require a car with more aggressively tuned dynamics.
For evaluation on its Vehicle Dynamics Area, flooded to 0.050 inch with water, Goodyear provided three convertible Corvettes equipped with automatic transmissions. One Vette wore Goodyear Eagle F1 GS D3, one wore Michelin Pilot Sport and one Bridgestone Potenza S-03 tires. Though the cars were theoretically identical, they were rentals and could have had some differences.
In a braking test, the numbers indicated the Michelin third, Bridgestone second and Goodyear first, inverse of the order in which we drove them. Interestingly, we didn't feel the ABS pulsing for the last third of the stopping distance with the Goodyear.
On the wet autocross, journalists were firmly instructed to drive in second gear with the Traction Control System on line. The Goodyear worked well and showed a gradual, forgiving nature. The tire was also well matched to the Corvette's TCS, which intervenes very late, and allows the driver to get sideways. The Michelins slid more and sooner than the Goodyears, and the car was a bit tail-happier. The Bridgestones slid the most."
And don't assume that I have no experience with the GSD3s, either. I have taken thenm on VERY aggressive mountain runs and I have to agree with the Tire Rack folks - the D3s are incredible tires for a C5. If you have a Hyundai sportscar, get the Kumhos; however, if you have a C5 and want nothing but the best, you will be very happy with the GSD3s.
Last edited by Dave68; 12-07-2006 at 08:48 PM.
12-07-2006, 10:56 PM
#48
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by Groucho
Tires mean alot to me when I'm buying a car...as someone else said...It means to me somebody was "el cheapo" and I would suspect it wasn't maintained as well as it might have been.
If I saw a Corvette with cheap tires, I would wonder what else was not being maintained. I personally like to keep the car original, and I will likely keep GYSC tires on my Z06 as long as I can get them.
12-08-2006, 08:10 AM
#49
Safety Car
Originally Posted by lowprofiling
with a few of the views expressed here maybe I should just knock another 1000K off the price and let the new owner put what they want to on it. The fronts are actually ok, but the rears are getting pretty close to slicks in the middle. They are wearing great though. Thanks agin for the input... you guys never fail me
except I wouldn't knock the $1k off. Let the buyer do that in negotiations.
12-08-2006, 08:13 AM
#50
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St. Jude Donor '05-'08
Originally Posted by Dave68
I guess you haven't seen this review, either?
"Productreview: F1 GS D3
By Dan Barnes
Photography: Dan Barnes
"Productreview: F1 GS D3
By Dan Barnes
Photography: Dan Barnes
Your quote though, which does not include Kumho, is about wet weather performance not dry weather which is what most vette owners see. I have to say that I have run both GY and Michelin and my Michelin Pilot Sport Cups outperforms the GY on dry, but it has a much higher chance of hydroplaning in standing water.
12-08-2006, 08:28 AM
#51
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St. Jude Donor '05-'08
From the looks of this post if you were selling your car you would want to have GY tires on it because there are way too many people that believe that another tire means that the owner was cheap.
The funny part is that so many people complain about how the RunFlats (commonly refered to as RunCraps) do not handle well and do not provide good traction.
After running my Runflats at Pocono and WGI I realized that for a street tire they were ok. Actually somewhat better than ok, but still now what I was looking for. I looked around and found that the MPSC would do a much better job, but it is a very expensive tire for the amount of life you get from it. Maybe that is why you find it on a Porsche and BMW OEM and not on a Vette that is trying to keep costs down and trying to satisfy not only the aggressive driver, but the day to day driver.
The funny part is that so many people complain about how the RunFlats (commonly refered to as RunCraps) do not handle well and do not provide good traction.
After running my Runflats at Pocono and WGI I realized that for a street tire they were ok. Actually somewhat better than ok, but still now what I was looking for. I looked around and found that the MPSC would do a much better job, but it is a very expensive tire for the amount of life you get from it. Maybe that is why you find it on a Porsche and BMW OEM and not on a Vette that is trying to keep costs down and trying to satisfy not only the aggressive driver, but the day to day driver.
12-08-2006, 08:46 AM
#52
Le Mans Master
KUMHO Tires
Originally Posted by proracr
Our 97 came with KUMHO ASX's on it last August and I have been happy with them as they are much quieter than the runflats and give me the traction necessary for the kind of driving I do when we take the Vette out for some exercise. However, I do not drive our Vette hard or burn up the rear tires.
Great street tire, very little road noise, good in tight turns, and good in the rain. Great tire for the price.
12-08-2006, 10:09 AM
#53
Instructor
Thread Starter
Well for the record, just because I am considering Kuhmo's, does not have anything to do with not taking care of the car. I bought it new in July 03, and it only has 26K miles on it, 5K of which has come in the last 6 months as I sold my lemon Cherokee befor it ran me out of house and home with repair bills so it's my only car right now. I would love to keep it, but a 2 seat conv. as my only car limits what I can do...I can't even get a damn c'mas tree!! Anyway, I have never done a burnout with it, it's never been on a track, always went to the dealer for oil changes, and nothing has been skimped. I was simply thinking, I'm selling it in a few weeks and if I could save whatever $$$$ on new tires why not. However I don't want to turn selling it into a p/t job and would hate to lose a chance to get rid of it over a tire choice. I think I will sell it as is and offer to take care of new tires if the buyer wants for a higher price. Thanks again to everone for all the input, and keep your eyes peeled on the for sale section if anyone is interested in stealing a Spiral Grey Vert.
12-08-2006, 10:16 AM
#55
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Actually, I can't believe that anyone could stand runflats. That is the absolute first mod anyone should make when spending money on their car is to get rid of em. Just the noise alone.... makes your car sound like you are riding in an airplane.
12-08-2006, 03:20 PM
#56
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I find it hard to believe that tire choice would affect resale value, short of choosing "May-Pop" radials... I would be more likely to walk away from a car with bald tires, than one with new tires that might be different than what I would choose.
How does the saying go? You can please some of the people, some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time.
I love my Kumho's for the 2k miles or so that I have had them. Seems like an entirely different car than with the OEM Goodyears. Better ride, much more quiet, and sure footed in the rain.
I have yet to hear one quality related complaint here or anywhere else on these tires, and did a great deal of research here before purchasing. It was said earlier in this post, "Tires are a WEAR item", and I don't see twice the value in the Goodyear tires, when the Kumho's suit me better in every way.
Just my .02 cents.
How does the saying go? You can please some of the people, some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time.
I love my Kumho's for the 2k miles or so that I have had them. Seems like an entirely different car than with the OEM Goodyears. Better ride, much more quiet, and sure footed in the rain.
I have yet to hear one quality related complaint here or anywhere else on these tires, and did a great deal of research here before purchasing. It was said earlier in this post, "Tires are a WEAR item", and I don't see twice the value in the Goodyear tires, when the Kumho's suit me better in every way.
Just my .02 cents.
12-09-2006, 03:33 AM
#58
Tires
I too had Kumho ECSTA tires and they were a huge improvement over the stock runflats! I really liked the performance, however they left a bit to be desired in the wet and had trendously soft rubber. I wore them out in less than a year. In a nutshell, they were good tires, and affordable. They will have no true impact on the value of the car. Enjoy!
12-09-2006, 07:51 AM
#59
Burning Brakes
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My car came with new Kumho Ecsta Mx's and I never even thought about passing on the deal because of it. A low mileage clean car in great condition sold me, not the tires. I've had it for a little over a month and no problems, love that grip. 
12-09-2006, 12:55 PM
#60
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Originally Posted by Architect
To some, it will affect resale. A lot of prospective vette buyers look for a 100% stock car. Tires that aren't stock might be an indication that the previous owner had a little too much fun with the car and wouldn't fork over the extra cash to replace the tires with OEMs.
On a different note, Kumho's makes an excellent tire from any standpoint, whether it be performance or value. I've owned 3 sets, the MX, Ecsta 712, and the 711. The MX was a superb performance tire but with semi-aggressive driving on a LS1 SS, they only lasted about 12,000 miles.
When the Z06 tires need replacing, they'll get another set of F1 Supercars. If a tire such as the F1 Supercar was designed for the Z06, then those are the shoes she'll wear.
On a different note, Kumho's makes an excellent tire from any standpoint, whether it be performance or value. I've owned 3 sets, the MX, Ecsta 712, and the 711. The MX was a superb performance tire but with semi-aggressive driving on a LS1 SS, they only lasted about 12,000 miles.
When the Z06 tires need replacing, they'll get another set of F1 Supercars. If a tire such as the F1 Supercar was designed for the Z06, then those are the shoes she'll wear.