vms4evr

Yeah I know this is old news to some of you. Sorry it's a long post. But I just broke my "wheel bearing cherry" this weekend. So I thought I'd ask a couple of questions and share an idea I had. And I'm kinda pissed because I was supposed to be at the track, not at home repairing the car...

First, thanks to Jake Latham and his procedure. It makes doing it easy.

http://www.jakelatham.com/C5/misc/

Now what I thought was interesting. I was hearing a whining noise from what I thought was the differential. I swear it sounded just like when I had a pinion bearing go out. Well I took it to a GM Master Tech that I know and he isolated the problem to the drivers side rear wheel bearing. Having it on a lift and listening with a mechanics stehescope was obvious to him. So he had me listen so I could find it myself next time. Now I thought when wheel bearings went bad you just got slop in the wheel. And the 3-9 o'clock and 6-12 o'clock test with the rear end raised would tell. Well this bearing has no slop in it at all. But it transmits the noise through the whole rear end. Is this unusual?

The car is an 02 Z06 with 32K on it now. About 8 autox and 8 track events mostly on street tires. I thought it would last longer than that.

So instead of paying the dealer $460 I got one from Carquest for $230. Autozone was cheaper but they had none in stock. It is the Timken part (# 512153) that everyone sells. What a waste that they are not rebuildable.

So I learned how to do this Saturday. Seperating the lower ball joint was starting to really suck. Trying to jam a ball joint seperator between the CV and the top of the nut to push the ball joint down bites. So I tried something else. I squirted WD40 down the threads hoping to get some to go in the hole and make the ball joint easier to drop. Then I put a jack under the lower arm and just lifted it up and let it down a bunch of times. Lo and behold the assembly came free. Getting it off the axle splines was actually easy. Even though it was rusty in there it just slid right off.

During the assembly I had no problems again until I had to put that lower ball joint back into its hole. Little f$%&er just spun around when I tried to tighten the nut. You can't get the allen key in the top because of the CV. Well I finally figured out with a little pressure in the right place it sat still while I tightened the nut a whole 1/16th of a turn at a time.

Now here is something I learned and thought would make one job easier in the future. In Jake's instructions you reconnect the tie rod and then put the rotor on and the caliper mounting bracket. Well I got a bright idea. I left the tie rod off. Slid the rotor and caliper bracket into place. Now the rear wheel turns out just like the front will. Getting a big torque wrench on the caliper bracket bolts and torqueing them down was too easy. Then I connected the tie rod end. So in the future when I need to replace a cracked rear rotor I think I'll disconnect the tie rod and make the job easier to get leverage on the caliper bracket bolts. Anyone see this being a bad idea??

I think I now understand how the rear independant suspension and drive train works on the Vette. Interesting to say the least.

Thanks for listening.

Graham

larryfs

I have the same problem with my C4. Something in the rear is making a terrible noise. I'm pretty convinced it's the wheel bearing, but there is ZERO play. So I havn't pulled it apart yet. On the highway, it sounds like a rubbing-grinding-then rubbing again sound. It can't be the rear, there is just no way the ring-pinion would fail at 28000 miles. So it must be a rear bearing or 1/2 shaft.

But this is an SFK bearing that has 5000 track miles on it. So I have to put the factory bearing back in (which had some play), and see if the noise goes away. If so, I will live with the play of the factory bearing.

As far as autozone, do NOT buy bearings there. I have gone through 3 front bearings in 1 season. actually they only last 2 laps before they develop some play. So I put the factory bearing back in, and will tolerate some play. ANd it's tough to get a refund from Autozone.
Timkens simply can not handle the track. Maybe for the street they are fine, but not for the track. Luckily the fronts take 10 minutes to replace.

John Shiels

no problems on my Autozone timkens.

96GS#007

Same here.

larryfs

There is just no way a timken C4 bearing (front) has NO play. I tried the actual C4 bearing & the Firebird bearing.
I do not break them in on the street as they say is necessary, I just install them, and the car goes on the trailer. maybe that is my problem???

STEVEN13

Hi,

On my 1992 I also installed Timkens (front) I broke them in and then ran it at the track. I did have play in both bearings after that event (also posted here 9/06). I have more play in the right side then on the left. The track I ran (Pocono North) has mostly right turns-at first I thought that the right side would be easier on the bearing/hub than the left.

But now I think different...heres what I am thinking. When turning right the left bearing is getting loaded into the hub. The right bearing is being loaded out of the hub. Maybe this is why my right side has more play? Does this make sense?

The bearing on the left side has hardly any play while the right side has more. If it gets worse I will change. Right now they are not too bad.

Steve

Falcon

Same here. I've got 4,000 miles on my front Autozone bearings. On a C5 aren't the factory bearings Timkens? The Autozones look identical to the one GM gave me as a replacement.

larryfs

That confirms my problem with Timken's.
however, my front right is still factory, and perfect.
it's the front left I can't keep tight, and I run pocono north too, which is a killer on left side components.
If you carefully look at a Timken, it looks identical to GM, except the ABS sensor. But they just don't hold up at all.
Maybe the C5's are a different construction????
But I know the T1 guys are changing bearings all the time too.
I still havn't heard of a better solution.
There was a guy who cyro'ed his bearings first, but I don't know what happened after that.

c4cruiser

I had a problem with a Timken bearing for my 87 that I got from CarQuest. The OEM LF bearing was a bit loose so I replaced it when I got an alignment.

I ran the new bearing for a couple of weeks and then did two autocross events and one track day at Portland. PIR runs clockwise and has mostly left-hand turns but nothing that would likely place a heavy cornering weight on the front.

After those events the LF bearing had close to 1/4" of slop measured at the top of the tire I was able to get the bearing replaced under warranty (I work at the shop where I ordered it) but I wonder if this one is going to come loose too.

The AC Delco bearings are twice the cost of the parts store Timkens but are they really that much better in terms of high performance driving use??

UstaB-GS549

It could be that the bearing race is brinelled as a result of trailering. The bearing sees cyclical loading from road vibration while in a stationary position.

When I worked with International Harvester we had bearing problems on farm equipment shipped by rail. Our quick and dirty solution was to remove the wheels for shipping as we could not control what the railroad was doing to tie down our equipment on flat bed trailers.

If one of the races has any spalling or imperfections it will create a lot of noise and have very little end play.

larryfs

and how do you open them for inspection ??

BrianCunningham

as far as I know you don't, they're factory sealed.
You 'inspect it' but jacking the car up and pulling on the wheel, if it's shot they'll click.

I've got an old one I'd love to take apart and pull the bearings out of so I can chase down replacements. This make take some custom tooling.

I've already posted that I'd make up some adapters to run coleman style hubs if there's enough interest.

aggie_corvette

I'm not familiar with the Coleman hubs. Could you please explain their advantages (or if you already did please just put in a link).

Did a quick google search and this is all i could find.
http://www.artworksm.com/Fabrication...ors_Brakes.htm

BrianCunningham

The stock hubs have ball bearings, which are great for low drag and fuel economy, but not so good at taking loads like the roller bearings.

The stock units are sealed which means you can't even replace the gease let alone the bearings.

The roller bearings are $10-20, which means even if you kill them, just take it apart and change them out.

The fronts would be easy to do, just make up a spindle and bolt on their hub, but the brakes and wheels would need adapters, or one could just make up hubs that use thier bearings. In the process you could get the ABS sensors to work.

aggie_corvette

Good explanation. I like option 2, of making a hub to utilize the roller bearing, but ABS would need to work. That would keep the other custom pieces to a minimum.

How much would a hub like that cost? I'm sure there are several guys who would be interested. If the cost was close to a replacement OEM hub then i'm sure you could sell several.

BrianCunningham

Close to the stock price is what I'm shooting for, though the initial ones would be CNC'd and the rears might need custom forgings. Keep in mind that you'd buy them once and then all you'd need are the $10-20 bearings.