Short-Throw

These are my thoughts on the brake system after close to 100 sessions with my car on the track. I realize everyone has their own unique needs so please don't take this as the final word. This is just from my personal experiences.

I have had my car driven by top instructors including a former Indy Car driver who concur with my assessment.

First and foremost, the stock brakes are absolutely great for any type of street driving conditions and there's no way of overheating them unless you are fracturing multiple laws. Anyone who will never see a track or an occasional one should have no worries.

I have driven my car mostly at my home track (The Autobahn) and I feel since I have learned the track so well, I am able to push the car harder than most will. This is not a statement of how fast I am (as there is always someone quicker), but more of a lucky situation of how I am able to track my car on a 'any given day basis' I want.

I know there are other members who track their car frequently as well. I will use allanlaw for example because I have spoken with him the most. Allan has been running stock pads since inception. I initially thought, "How can this be? He must not be a fast driver." After talking with Allan for many months and sharing our thoughts and timed runs, I realize this is not the case and in fact Allan is indeed Racer X.

My track is pretty technical and has a lot of hard braking (140-50) which I found is not required at places like Willow Springs (140-100). This is not about anyone being the better driver, just a fact that certain tracks require certain demands.

I tracked my car from day one completely bone stock (with the exception of Ate Blue Dot 4) as I wanted to get a feel for what it was. Over a few months I went through numerous sets of stock pads, obviously more front than rear.

I can't stress enough that those who track your car should replace the pads at the half way point or earlier. As these pads wear down, the heat cannot dissipate and end up frying the tie-rods, ball joints and piston boot covers inside the calipers. As the pads get hotter they also wear quicker. The first 1/8 inch will last a lot longer than the last, so don't get caught up measuring miles by pad depth. This will lead to rotor scraping.

Again, none of this is an issue for street or light track use, so please don't start up with the GM inferior products rant, because that's simply not true.

After replacing stock pads and joints, I switched to Raybestos St-43 pads. I went through 2 sets of these. These pads are wonderful and I still recommend them. They last 6-8 times longer than stock pads but they do squeak. With my increased seat time I became faster on the track and eventually these pads weren't enough to stop me from heating things up as I lost pedal pressure one day at a very high mph.

If you ever feel your pedal even the slightest bit mushy, proceed to coast, (this will cool your brakes) point everyone by and get off the track.

As a few others have done here, I had to switch to a different brake system because I am able to run my car hours at a time if I want.

I drove other cars with brake systems and found three I liked. (We are all car guys at the club and often swap rides to see how different cars feel re: power, susp, brakes, etc...)

Brembo, PFC, and Alcon. These aren't necessarily the best and I'm not qualified to judge so, just what I found to be great for my application.

I went with the Brembo Gran Turismo System along with steel braided lines. I now have a two piece slotted floating rotor. This helps with the uneven pad wear many of you are experiencing with the stock system. I am running Pagid pads.

This system has operated flawlessly. I have had no more heat issues and the braking feel is a bonus. I put this system on for the security of having my brakes stay intact for long periods. Those of you who have already done this or driven these types of systems know what I'm talking about.

The stock brakes have almost zero modulation feel. They are like binary switches, on or off. The Brembos have a feel you have to experience to understand. How many people here have tried trailbraking just to have the rear end come around? Granted it's the driver always to blame but there's just so much you can do with any given equipment. The Brembos let you slam on the brakes and when you ease off them you still have great modulation. The control is incredible.

Any of you who will be at the NCM HPDE in Kershaw SC. in October are welcome to take a look at my car. Adam Boca has dibs on the first ride/drive

Here are some pics. I will try to post pics with the wheels on. It's been raining here for days and hasn't been conducive for picture taking.

Final Reminder: The stock pads do a great job so don't fret, we all have different situations.

I hope this was informative.

Mike

outnumbered

Great write up Mike.I am nowhere near upgrading yet.So far I fall into Allan's category.

Any reason why you didn't look at Stop-tech?

I have the Brembos on the Viper "of course",and so far they have been great as well.

Congrats.Keep us posted.

By the way I think it was admirable how you did not disqualify the stock brakes as being good.There is always room for performance improvements,but not always for the majority.

Some poster's like to flame on and trash original equipment without the consideration of the intention of the original equipment.In other words Gm did not build us a nascar or F1 car.



Dan

Adam Boca

sick....

Adam Boca

LTC Z06

Added to FAQ.

allanlaw

Coincidentally, I was out in the garage measuring my pad depth while you were posting. I was at Willow Springs on Saturday and Sunday, and ran about 220 miles on the track. I would say only about 100 miles were at high speed, the rest involved taking students for "here's the line" laps in slower groups. The pads were new, and I used up around 3-4mm on the fronts. As you know (and as some Forum members who have driven with me know) I try to stay off the brakes as much as possible, and Willow Springs really doesn't require bonzai braking. I think your new brake setup is first class and appreciate all your research. Unless I run into problems, I'll stick with the stock system until I see what the general comes up with for '08 but, as you said, this is possible because of my unique situation of driving style and tracks driven.

Short-Throw

Dan,

With my limited experience and my shops thoughts (who all race), the Stop-techs just don't have the modulation the Brembos have. I cannot comment on their longevity, but there is quite a different feel. I know many seem to be happy with them and that's all that matters I guess.



Thanks, I may have to cut and paste this into my original post.

You........you........you are good!

Mike

Short-Throw

Cobra4B

Lovely! I want a set

BlaznZ06

Good Choice. I thought about Brembo.




I went with StopTech!!

I will do my write up on them after a track day. But for the street use and some high speed bed-in this things are like throwing out a boat anchor. They latch on and stop the car on a dime.

With the stock system there was a little fade as you depressed the peddle while braking, not any more.

I'll post picks when I get the car back for the dealer with another interesting story.

mddpm

I posted brake questions earlier, and with about 5mm front brake front pad depth, I went down to 1.5-2mm with two track days at Sears Point. When I took it in to the dealer for new pads, the mechanic initially said--do another track day, don't waste your money--but listening to Alan Law, and others, I said put on new pads. Later that day they called saying the job was done, but on one front caliper a pin was "welded" in place and that damage means new calipers next time out. This of course was caused by excess heat from thinned too little pad. So--heed the advice and do not let the pads go below the advised depth.(Now I need a pictorial so I can do my one work next time)mddpm

outnumbered

It is so true.I had problems with my former ZR1 when the pads got too thin.
My last event on the Z06 I started with about 60%.I was nervous,however took extra set of pads with me.

I am now below 40% and will replace them before the next track event.
Still fine for the street though.But they do squeal badly.They never squealed until after the 2nd track event.

Dan

Mako7

Brembos Rock!

However. they also rock the wallet! Brembos for 4 corners is easily $7,500-$8,000, which buys a lot of pads! Also, buyers of the car will generally NOT pay extra for the brakes in my experience. I had to remove the Brembos from the last Z, pay to have the stock stuff reinstalled (and also purchase some new stock rotors) and then sell the Brembos separately.

outnumbered

I wonder if on a large volume they would be less expensive.They come on the CTSV and the car cost $52k.You would think it could be affordable for the Corvette. Especially the Z.

Short-Throw

I have the stock system neatly packed up for this very reason. I will swap when I'm ready to move on. Most people buying used cars are concerned about price and probably have no idea what a Brembo system is or what it's worth.....most people.

Short-Throw

Dan,

Without getting into specifics, the answer is yes.

Remember, from the factory there wouldn't be the extra labor of removing a first system and configuring a second. It would be as easy as optioning a Z51 package or F55. When it's coming down the line it's no big deal.

Without getting into specifics ,

I think the Corvette consumer will be rewarded and very pleased with the dedication and product the GM team will offer in the coming years.

Everett Ogilvie

Nice write-up, and a great looking setup Mike

Very interesting/intriguing last comment you made...

Short-Throw

Hey Everett,

Good to see your latest acquisition hasn't taken you away.

We look forward to your comparison review once you've had the seat time.

Mako7

1. The CTSV Brembos are not as stout as the Brembos under discussion here.

2. The "last statement" probably refers to the fact that GM realizes that the "disco duck" 6 padlet setup was a major gaff and will not be repeated in the future. I have no plans to change on this car, but given the OEM choice, in 10 out of 10 cases I would take stout Brembos over the current setup.

Btw, my local SoCal dealer had 1 new '06 Z on the floor today with a $10k markup and 2 used '06 Zs. Interesting...

outnumbered

What is different besides the rotors are smooth on the CTSV?