ezlee79

My dad and I having been working on the '57 he's had for years. Recently he's decided to replace the 283 smallblock(not the original engine) with a crate or quality salvage motor.

He mentioned that he'd like to go with a fuel injected motor. I'm wondering if its possible to drop an LS1 camaro engine into a '57 or if anyone has done this. Any suggestions for other high quality crates fuel injected or carbureted are welcome. I'm actually hoping to talk him out of fuel injection as I think it will be more trouble than it's worth(am I wrong?)


Thanks,

Lee

vettes1st

Adding FI will require extra electrical and extra plumbing.Plus, many will not fit under the original hood. They do work good and are pretty much fail safe. I have installed an LS1 in a 54. This is very similar under the hood. It will fit with no body modifications. It would be much easier to go with a standard GM crate engine for carburator.

DZAUTO

I haven't seen them advertised lately, BUT, Arizona Speed and Marine used to (and maybe still does) sell a TPI system for a SB that had the air intake mounted to the side (like 57-65 units) of the plenum, which resulted in a nice retro look. I'm quite sure they supply ALLLLLLLLL the connections and hardware to install one of these.

I have a somewhat modified early Rochester unit in my 56, but if I were going to go with something more modern and electronic, I would certainly consider one of the AS&M units.

DZAUTO

I just went to their website and found this.
See if you can open it http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.c...d_1901_3038188

DZAUTO

This is the unit in my 56.

KyleDallas

There's alot of different ways you can go Lee... and I hope most of all
that you and your Dad have fun in the selection of the engine and in the problem solving process... there is no route or installation that usually doesn't envolve some adjustment or "what about this issue?"
There's plenty of guys here to help you if you get stuck at any point..
alot of collective knowledge on this forum.
I am currently working on a twin tbi (throttle body efi) for 2 engines
I have... a 283 chevy and a 426 wedge mopar.



that is a twin tbi set up available from Turbo City
http://www.turbocity.com

I might use that system for the Mopar...or I might use modified
Crossfire set ups from the 82-84 Corvette/Z28 for both... You might remember that the crossfire had a bad reputation...and really, rightfully so.It was first generation electronics mated with a restrictive factory
intake.... not the best, honestly. But a group of guys has addressed
the electronic issues and placed the system atop Offenhauser and
Edelbrock cross ram intakes and have done very well... twin
Crossfire TBI on an Offy intake outflows a factory Tuned Port System
.... you wouldn't think so but it's true..even if the Tuned Port recieved aftermarket upgrades.
I will probably be going with Crossfire/Offy on my 283..when I get
done it will look "something" like this.. although a little different..
it will have a period look and efi with superior performance.
There is a forum, like Corvette Forum, that is dedicated solely to
the modification of Crossfire set ups..
here it is- http://www.crossfire.homeip.net



twin tbi can be made to look near factory ... this is a Splayed Valve Semi Hemi 302 crossram Chevy


here is the Sonoramic Commando intake ala Mopar.. the intake can go on 383 to 440 wedge motors



There are guys here who could help you get a 57 vintage block if you so desired.. maybe not as
difficult or expensive as you would think... you could top it with original carb.. or tbi...
original heads... or some heads that made more power..
Chevy is also making an engine called the Ram Jet 350... it is an efi set up that has
a similar look to the original Fuelie engines.. it is available as a crate engine...
the manifold and efi set up are also available seperately from the crate engine... but
will require VORTEC heads to work..
Anyway... good luck regardless of which way you choose to go.. the LS1 is a great motor
... powerful, trouble free, and decent mileage..
Regards,
Kyle

KyleDallas

Nice mod on the 56 Tom... it looks GREAT..

61iwon

I considered an EFI in my '61 but when you look at the extras you need it is a simpler project to get a carbureted Crate engine from GM.

I put the ZZ4 350 in mine. pretty much a bolt in with the same motor mounts and the HEI ignition. Of course there are always little things that need to be done in an engine swap, alternator brackets, short water pump, mostly minor though. Changing to an alternator. What type of headers, or stock exhaust manifold could possibly be used.

EFI requires the electric fuel pump, in the tank is the nicest (new tank), computer and harness (can be programmed no problem).

I think a LT1 out of a C4 would be the easiest and most reasonable economically. Transmission bolts up to a T10, i think. You can buy these motors from a Camaro also and they are cheaper/more common.

The ZZ4 has a nice torque curve for local driving and good heads and roller cam(I think?), plenty of power too. Runs like a raped ape.

If you have any questions, send me an email. I put the Keisler 5 speed in my '61 with the motor and cruising rpm are comfortably quiet.

Benefits: no road tube smoke(if current engine is tired), no oil leaks, no blowby, warranty.

Problems: Definitely need positraction now. Potential HP increases with modifications if you want them. Drop in, drive away. (sort of)

Dave

kdzdds

try a Chevy 350 crate engine.... you'll love it.

ezlee79

Thanks for all the leads. I'll definitely be following up on these and whatever route I go- I'm sure I'll be back to ask more questions.

Extra plumbig and electrical was assumed. Actually I've been wanted to strip out the ****ty electronics in that car for years . . . add a complete new wiring harness stealth mount a stereo in console vertically and keep the look of the wonderbar in the dash(which is still in quite good condtion)
The FI project wood give me a good excuse. However, I am worried about other issues such as:

Trans tunnel not lining up.
Motor mounts
Guages(electronic instead of mechanical) Will I have to change the guages out?

and on and on . . . . .

Honestly, I hope he chooses the 350 carb crate(as I haver reccommened to him) which is easily avaible and as mentioned will almost bolt right up. Not to mentioned all the added expense of converting to FI. That be being said I think a fuel injected 57 with modern electronics etc. would be the cat's pajamas.

Either way I think its a project he and I could work on for years. I'm hoping to talk him into power steering, disc brakes, and new suspension as well. I think these are a no brainer with the work going into the engine and new power and torque it will yield. He's being kind of frugal about the whole thing though so we'll see.

Lots more to talk about for sure, but I've got to run for now.


Thanks guys,

Lee

ezlee79

P.S.

DZ: Checked out AZ speed and marine. Definitely a very interested and sharp looking unit. A little pricey at 4k though. No?



Vettes1st: If you could post a couple pictures of your '54's engine with the LS1 in there I would be very grateful.


Finally, If I go with a 350 crate: is the one direct from GM recommended or is there a better aftermkt. or salvage 350 to be had?


Thanks again,

LEe

Seaside63

That's a cool system Kyle.

Now if you could lose the cheap plastic sheathing and wrap the harness with plastic or even better, cloth tape it would look a lot cleaner and more period. Hell most people would think they were looking at carbs.

I like the Arizona Speed and Marine system too. But both require an oil filler in the valve covers rather than the original-style fill tube.

KyleDallas

I did look at the AZ Speed... very trick...my problem is that I always want the efi to only cost a tad more than a carb set up.... not $3900
I think the twin tbi Turbo City is around $1800... I always want a set of trick heads for $1800.. not fuel delivery..If I am being a cheapie.. well, sorry...
You can get a Howell Fuel Injection single TBI brand new for
$1200... I believe they were the original contractor with GM.
http://www.howell-efi.com




Turbo City is also a source for upgraded chip for the Factory Crossfire
set up..
There is a book by Ben Strader called "Building and Tuning Electronic
Fuel Injection" by SA books... he is an instructor at EFI University..
the book and EFI Univ are here
http://www.efi101.com

they offer certification courses on many efi systems.. including
Motec (Porsche)

here is a Kinsler efi system




http://www.kinsler.com

Kinsler is better known for their mechanical fuel injection for
sprint cars.
While the subject of crate motors is on the table..I will tell you that
I worked briefly for AER in Dallas... they build the GM Performance
Parts 502 Big Block on contract with GM...
I have watched the assembly first hand...
While I have no problem with the quality of the parts going into the
engines... the assembly is something else entirely..
Your local machinist has a stake in the quality of his work.. he wants your return business... if you feel he is trustworthy..use him..
he will normally do it more economically than the factory anyway..
and the quality of the work will be superior...
You can have your enternals balanced for same price you would pay
just to have the factory brand on the front..
not only can your local painter and re- chromer give you
"better than factory"... your local machinist can as well..
I don't say this to discourage people from factory products...
it's just that, for myself, I want "ultra bulletproof".
I want the extra 5 ponies and reliability for the same money.
As an adult... I also understand the 'oft escaping commodity of
"time".... so rest assured Im behind you whichever path you choose. ... need a crate rather than assembled?... Im
for you..
Good Luck! Kyle













4

56 Texas

my '56 has the GMPP RamJet.. love it, fit was not an issue although I had heard of others having to notch the support on the underside of the hood .. was not needed on mine ..

John McGraw

I used a stock LS1 engine from a 2001 Camaro. used the original PCM reprogramed to remove the unwanted functions. A pretty easy swap in almost any car that originally had a smallblock engine in it. On the C1, it has a problem and that is the front motor mount. If you switch to side mounts for any engine, you are obligated to change out the steering box. The stock column and box will not work with side mounts. Hey, you said you wanted to upgrade the brakes, suspension and steering anyway didn't you?

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-...3/P0001394.jpg

Regards, John McGraw

firstgear

this is a good discussion......and that As&M FI set up has me thinking.......sigh...always something.....

KyleDallas

that Arizona Speed and Marine IS sexy.. how bout a group purchase at
$1500 per copy..he he
Ram Jet is a looker also... nice set up

Corbrastang

1.

http://www.mass-floefi.com/mass-flo.html

i run this system on my cobra and it is truly awesome.

2.
www.verycoolparts.com

slap one of these systems on a 383 stroker and you will be in heaven.

ezlee79

Thanks. This info will be very helpful.



Lee

kenmo

How much would a crate engine run you??? I suppose they come in different stages of dress...