chuckster

Today is the first day I drove the car since detailing last weekend to erradicate the water spots..

I walked outside to go to lunch and saw something to my HORROR! I could not PHUCKING believe it.. EVERY SPOT STILL THERE! only now visable with High Noon Sun! Reflecting every single ungodly blemish in clean view.. Like Ghost flames with the perfect lighting..

Here is a shot from my camera phone...



In fact I got to be on a first name basis with a few of the larger spots... so much that I remember WET SANDING one till it was gone.. IT too lives under a beuautiful Menzerna/Zaino Shine.. Like little demons under a glass lid...:

I am feeling that the entire car must be repainted here... HELP PLEASE!!

BMadden

Man, that sucks. After seeing those pics in the other thread I thought you had removed every single blemish on the car. I feel for you.

ZaneO

I thought you checked the paint in the sun when you were finished. Am I wrong?

agentf1

Menzerna is an awesome product but similar to most contain swirl removers it contains some oils that can mask your problems. This is one of the reasons I love ZPC so much, what you see is what you get. A lot of people complain that it does not do as much as other products but what they do not realize is they are all doing the same thing but the other stuff is just better at hiding the defects with oils before they are totally removed.

What you need is to have somebody go over the car with a rotary or possibly worst case scenerio with some 3000 grit paper and then re-polish it. They will definitely be gone for real after that. You could try going over it with the IP again with your PC. Crank your speed way up to 5.5 or even 6 and keep working it. You could work the one panel like your hood with the PC for over an hour you will barely have removed any clear coat. Do not worry about going through the cc with your PC, even when using something like IP. You may even want to step up to something more powerful like 3m FI compound or PG or Optimum Hyper Compound. Just keep at it and they will go away. Personally I think I would hit it with 3000 and then re-polish and be done with it. Try a small spot.

I wish I lived in Florida, I would come over and help you out myself.

I am really sorry to hear about this. I had the exact thing happen to my 76 Stingray. I drove it to work on my first day when I started out in IT since I was at their training facility in the suburbs and they turned the freaking sprinkler on that day. Atleast mine only baked one day. Don't let it get you down, it CAN be fixed.

chuckster

This has nothing to do with Oils hiding it. I even ran an alcohol rag over the paint to make sure I was getting it... The Menzerna did a great job. I had it outside but the sun was down about 6pm... I saw nothing...

At High noon it's like a hologram...

This is UNDER the clear coat.. The same spot is right where I Wetsanded with 2000!!!! My paint is PHUCKED..

I am going to nail that big Clam shaped one in upper portion of the picture again with 2000 wet sand... If It does not come out... then what are my options?

How the hell could the paint underneath get wrecked? the clearcoat is as pefect as I could ask for.. Or did the Clear get compromised?

Z06-Goose

If you get your spot issues worked out, try using some good wax like Collinite 845 or 476 the description of these products seems to fit your particular situation. People who have used it, support their claims as being durable and protectant. This will also be a good test to put some RejeX on and see if it works better for you. There are a lot of good products out there, but these two is what I would recommend.
-Goose

ZaneO

The paint beneath the clear can't be damaged if the clear is alright. The damage just lies very deeply in the clear.

I would test a very small, inconspicuous area with the 2000 or 3000 grit and fully polish it out. Hopefully this problem can be fixed without serious repair (ie. repaint).

The last step product used wouldn't matter with damage this severe.

agentf1

I really do not think it is under the clear coat. I guess it could be possible but I have NEVER seen it before. It sounds like it was a combination of oils hiding and time of day that you did not see this after you polished your car last time. People do not realize how mild of a tool a PC is. This is a good thing and a bad thing. In your case it is a bad thing since I think your cc probably has some slight etching in it and needs to have the top layer removed to get below this etching. In order to do this you need a rotary and/or some wet sand paper. As I said, keep at it.

chuckster

More info..The spots came out in the sun but it must have been the heat that brought them to the surface.. I just pulled in the garage and they are all clearly visible again!!!

What is it about the Heat of the sun?

0Killrwheels@Autogeek

I tried to refrain from your posts, because your products of choice were not what we sell, and I suspected you would like real world advice from those users. I use and like Menzerna polishes also but under their licensing contracts currently we cannot offer them . But ...

I gotta respond at the comments introduced by another member that "oils" hid them and they were not evident. The oils and fillers in those products are quickly removed with a wash or with the alcohol rub that you introduced. Also seeing the abrasive scale of polishes, your choice was far more aggressive that the one consistently offered as the only choice in polish because it contains no oils. Polishes can be considered Final Polishes, Abrasive Polishes, and compounds. (your next step in polishes appears to be the use of a compound, which will require a repolish with a final polish when done to properly jewel the surface and might need an abrasive polishing in the middle).

I will , like ZaneO, assure you that the spots you are seeing are actually damage to the clearcoat and not the paint under it. Because the spots were "etched" into the clearcoat and essentially the minerals have burnt into the paint, you only have three or four real choices for repair.

1. Wet-sanding --- this will actually remove at portion of the clearcoat and will as such remove the spots at some point. Just like polishes start low on the abrasive scale and move higher only as needed. (this is alot of work, and best left to a professional)

2. Rotary Polishing w/ Wool Bonnet -- I seriously doubt even with the heat introduced by a rotary that those spots are going to be removed (not reduced) without use of rotary and professional seriously cutting into the top coat. A good body shop in the area should be able to offer this service at a reasonable cost considering the area exposed.

3. Repainting -- while I hesitate to ever suggest repainting or replacement versus repair ... it becomes a cost issue. If you have chips and paint blemishes on the hood already, and you can have the hood properly repainted for 250.00 bucks, well the choice might be obvious. (if you trust the painter to match the color) Its very hard to create all the orange peel GM adds to each Vette, especially with black. (light humor)

4. Autobody Shop Services -- Several vocational schools down here do the service for free to teach students how to paint properly, and might be a worst case idea. They also teach them how to buff, cut, wetsand, and repair paint defects. Helping our youth to learn a valuable career and helps you reduce the time offered to this project.

No matter your choice, dont feel totally disgusted. Your work and pics were nice and showed that you tried. A PC will never replace an experienced rotary user when cutting is needed. High use of flourescent lighting, and looking at paint off angle would probably have shown these spots a little sooner, but from afar you are the only one to notice them.

In closing, there really is no quick miracle cure. It takes alot of work to remove them. Another forum advertiser offers a paint decon kit, Finish Kare, that might be worth exploring prior to any other work. I cannot vouch for it as never used, and you will use some acids on the paint (for which I believe you have already tried) but might be worth studing a little more. Maybe the combo of products works well together, but again I suspect no real miracle cures.

Scuba Ghost

Hey Chuckster
What caused the water spots in the first place????

agentf1

He parked the car at a hotel for a few days and the sprinkler came on. Then the sun came out.

Do a search for his old post for the full story.

chuckster

Thanks man.. I am starting to realize that it is still superficicial..

BUT... It's really weird what happened... The paint was PERFECT... untill I drove it today and left it in the 80 Degree Sun today..

All the spots "POPPED" and they can actually be felt!

Even after I got home and pulled into the garage they were clearly visible.. and If I wiped my finger over the spots gently I could still feel them..

WTF? They were gone not only to the eye.. but to the touch.. Now the heat made them reappear...

What I am going to try before going to wetsanding...

Get some Menzerna Power Gloss and use a Yellow Pad..

I figure that should be the max I could do before needing a Circular polisher...What do you think?

ZaneO

I wouldn't use PowerGloss with a PC. It doesn't have the speed/heat to make that product work like it is intended.

Something like 3M Fine Cut Rubbing Compound might be a better route.

0Killrwheels@Autogeek

You gotta wet-sand or circular polish as the next step IMO. They do make some wool pads for the PC which will help slightly with cutting the clearcoat, but the Vette topcoat is darn strong.

If you would like a sample of Menzerna's P085 ceramiclear polish (discontinued, slightly more abrasive than IP as made for ceramiclear which are ultra hard clears on Maybach, Mercedes) or Optimums polish email me offline, but I dont think they will dent those marks effectively either. I feel your pain .... as living in Florida even a sun-shower and then immediate 90 degree summers can be quite damaging.

gmblack3

Chuck, Sorry to hear of this.

You can try the PG and PC, but IMO its not going to cut it. I've been dealing with some major swirls on a red vette over the past few days. With a rotary the only thing that will do any serious cutting is a wool pad and some PG. It is still was not a 1 pass fix, it took 2-3 to get it cut enough. Then you will have micromarring and like others have said you will then go to IP with a foam pad on the rotary to get rid if that. You can then use the PC to finish it off with some FPII.

You need a light like this, lowes has them for $35.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...73545?n=228013

You can see more defects with this then you can in the sun. The only thing that is more visable in the sun is buffer trails.

agentf1

Very nice offer but I would not waste your time with the 085RD as I think it is too mild to remove any water spots. I would ask killr to send that sample anyway as it is excellent polish and you can use it as your final step to get your gloss back. I think I would try the Optimum. I also have Optimum Hyper compound and would be willing to send you a sample if you like. For sake of getting something quick locally I think I would try 3M FI compound 05933. That is what we used to polish the 2000 scratches out of the C6 Z06 with and it brought it up to a nice shine with a rotary but seemed more aggressive than the Optimum to us. The PG was also very aggressive but don't know how good it would work with a PC.

Killr, do you have any 106FF you could send him? It is more aggresive than the 085rd and may be better suited.

TOGWT

For stubborn water spots use (A B C Decontamination / Neutralization system (http:// www.autoint.com) a safe alkaline wash and neutralizing system This three part system comprises; A-Acid Neutralizer, B-Alkaline Neutralizer (use in conjunction with detailers clay to remove ‘water spots’) and C- Surface Conditioner with a pH of 7.0, which safely removes both surface and subsurface contamination and neutralizes any residual acid from the painted finish. Any subsequent etching will require an abrasive to level the paint surface

If water dries on a paint surface ultra violet radiation (heat) radiation (UVR) will cause water spotting, especially if it contains an excess of minerals, which will etch the surface, an acetic acid (vinegar) will remove the spotting and an abrasive polish to level the paint surface may be necessary

agentf1

It sounds like he actually has some etching that he is trying to remove now.

0Killrwheels@Autogeek

I do not have any 106 unfortunately. Since my finishes are new, I never saw the need. Both have more bite initially as made for harder clearcoat, but I agree (085) that it breaks down quite quickly into a final polish even on black. The Optimum Hyper really is designed for rotary, and it doesnt appear we have started that step currently. I still believe that rotary to wet-sanding is the next step and a bridge that currently needs to be crossed. I agree with Frank completely, that those spots are "etched" into the clear.