Umrswimr

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...69&forum_id=54

The price and location are right. So, I need your help:

This car will be a DD/track car for now. I'll keep my C5 as a "fair weather car" and I suspect the C4 will eventually be converted further and further into a track toy over the years.

Is there any reason this would NOT make a good track car? It looks like it has the base seats. Sport seats would be better, but I plan on installing a rollbar and harness anyway.
I will check, but I suspect it has the base suspension as well. That means no oil cooler, either. I suspect I'll have to add one ASAP.
My curent AFS Grand Sport wheels with R-compoundd should bolt-up no problem, right?

Anything else I'm overlooking?

You guys got me into this, BTW.

plaster

I have been thinking about the same thread since it was started!
Daily or track car, that thing looks really, really nice for the price! I was thinking of getting something less nice for just a grand or so less, but you've convinced me to take my time and find something nicer.

Excellent choice I say!

Gary04Z06

I think the C4 is a great track car. With some simple mods, it can keep up with or beat some C5s. There are several of us track our C4s. Your AFS wheels should bolt up just fine. If its an auto, you'll want a tranny cooler, add a 30mm front sway bar, Bilstien extreme shocks, VBP springs, Camber Brace, S/T Frame Support (roll bar), Cross- Frame. 5-point harness, and some good track tires. I've made those mods to my 96 and it takes to the track very well.

Your link goes to the for sale section, is this the one you bought?
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1285269

Looks good!

Umrswimr

That's the one! Technically I haven't bought it yet, but I'm headed down there next weekend to finish the transaction.

WNDOPDLR

Way to go. I weighed in on that thread and if the sale goes through, you will find a lot of help on both the Autocross section and the C4 tech section. I am happy with my C4 and as I said originally, can embarrass some C5's if the drivers are equal. Mine is now a dwsignated track car and we are beginning the process of removing unnecessary weight. Contact me any time for my .02

96GS#007

Looks like a very nice car, especially for the money, and I think it'd be a fine DD.

The only reason it wouldn't make a great track car is time, money, and initial expectations. I say that because it depends on how competitive you want it to be with other cars that are out there right now such as the Z06 (C5 & obviously C6), some of the P cars, etc.

If you retain its street car functionality/equipment (and drive it hard) compared to many of the big dog cars on the track, you'll have:

50-100 less hp
Several hundred pounds more mass
More flexible chassis
Marginal cooling
"ok" suspension adjustment capability (less range of adjustment)

Of course all of the above can be cured just like with any other car. It's very easy to get 370rwhp out of the LT1 with heads/cam/exhaust work.

You mentioned a rollbar, so that will address the chassis.

DeWitt can cover the radiator.

Different springs, bushings, etc can address suspension woes

...and the list goes on. Since it sounds like this is going to be a toy to mess with over the course of several years then it's not a bad way to go at all. If you're expecting it to be competitive on the track "as delivered", you'll be disappointed.

Slalom4me

If the car shows as nice in person as it does in the photos, it almost
seems a shame to tear into it.

The '95 FE1 base suspension is a bit soft but not as soft as the '96. If it
has the Z07, then you'd be in pretty good shape as is. Here is the
link to the suspension chart. Be aware that the 30mm/26mm
swaybar combo is said to be the preferred choice but the 30mm bar
is NLA from GM. It still shows up in 3rd party catalogs but the ones
I contacted were not able to deliver, so you either get the 32mm or
turn to the wrecking yards for a used one.

At 67K, you'll want to plan for shocks unless these have already been
changed out. Set aside some money for wheel bearings at some point,
too.

There have been some threads in C4 Tech and C4 General about
maintenance items to look into that might be of interest.

.

ghoffman

That looks like a really nice C4, I hate to see it thrashed. Why not get a 1999-2000 FRC and start out with more power, better chassis and lots you can do from there, including most C5 and C6 upgrades.

STEVEN13

Good Luck!

Steven

Bill Dearborn

I would start by replacing the shocks and making sure I could get a good wheel alignment that will hold. The 88 and later cars are a little different than my 86 which was a base suspension car but it did quite well with the addition of a set of Z51 shocks. I would also take time to clean out the space between the A/C condensor and the radiator since a lot dirt can accumulate there. The later cars also had a larger cross bar just in front of the engine that probably helped stiffen the chassis somewhat. Not sure how much stiffening would be gained by adding just a roll bar. Most of the chassis flex is to the front of the car and the roll bar will not reduce any of that. A cage will.

Bill

Slalom4me

On the subject of reinforcements - be sure to consider
the offerings available from R-D Racing, the C4 Tech
forum sponsor.

I have several of Dave's products and am quite happy
with the items and with how Dave operates.

BTW - if racing is your goal, it is better to buy than to
build. There have been a few prepared C4s available
lately, 'h rocks' car comes to mind.

.

.

BrianCunningham

Sounds just like my car!

Looks great, it all depends of how much you want to do with it.
You can really wake that car up, or just drive it the way it is.

If your going to dump more $$$ into it, wait.
You can get a fully prepped track car for a few grand more.

Umrswimr

Thanks guys. Right now there's no way I'll be competitive in ANY race because I'm pretty new to this game. Right now I'm looking for a car I can start entering HPDE's and TDE events. Right now I can't do that because my car is a convertible.

As for the C5 idea- I love it, but the price is more than I'm willing to spend. Even a thrashed FRC or coupe is going to cost me 50% more. I agree that's it's probably a better platform, though.

Essentially I want a car that I can drive every day, enter a HPDE every month or so, and have a good time. As I improve as a driver, I can slowly modify the car over a year or two without being out the cash up front. I know this isn't the ideal way to do it, but "ideally" I'd have enough money to buy a new C6 Z06 and afford to walk away when I embed it in an ARMCO.

Thanks for the suspension chart- it looks like the base suspension for the 95's isn't *terriblely* soft, so it'll work until I can find a set of Z07 take-offs.

STEVEN13

Hi,

This is the same approach I am taking with my 1992. I have been racing for over 20 years with the first 10 being Drag Racing. I have owned 2 track-only cars (purchased complete). A tube chassis drag car and a ITA RX7. Both were great cars. But I am having the most fun with the C4.

My car started out bone stock and now has a welded 4-point roll bar, poly bushings, Z51 sway bars, oil cooler, S/S brake lines, and cooling ducts. The cost has been spread out over 5 years and I don't even feel it!

I have considered selling to get a C5 but like this car too much. Even if I do a new engine the cost is cheaper than upgrading to a C5.

So I say good choice and have fun!

Steven

sothpaw2

This is really good advice. The trouble with modding the car is that then you need to get special Insurance to cover the mods too in case of a total. My impression has been that most of these classic car companies that offer the "agreed value" don't want you to daily drive the car or put a lot (more than 5000mi) of miles on it.

If you're doing 6 HPDE's a year, it makes sense to get the on-track insurance too.

ScaryFast

Umrswmr,

A couple of things about this deal:

1. Be ABSOLUTELY sure you are honest with yourself about what you want to do with this car. You mentioned that you want to be able to drive it every day, which confuses me. You're keeping the C5 vert, right? I thought you were getting the C4 to be dedicated track and occasional street.

2. Assuming you pull the trigger, I wouldn't worry much about the suspension on the car. I'd immediately upgrade it to coil-overs. The kits (DRM comes to mind) are barely $1000 for all four corners, and it's easy to install as they bolt right to the stock shock mounting locations. You get so much more flexibilty with this set-up. Plus, when you feel like you're ready to go to the next level, you can send the shocks to Bilstien and have them revalved to one of the custom race settings for around $50 each.

3. As we discussed in your older post, get some brakes. You won't regret it. Confidence in the ability to stop is the key to going faster. Even if you have enough brake, if you're mind doesn't feel like you do you won't be able to feel comfortable out there.

4. Oil system and cooling should be fine for your first year or so. If you have the money, add the upgrades for insurance, but it will most likely be a while before you're pushing the car hard enough to overheat it. I ran my C4 HARD for a few years with no upgrades. That's not to say one should do this, only that it is capable. You can safely run oil temps up to 300*, just make sure you keep a very close eye on your temp guages while on the track...especially since you're in a hot climate.

5. I would, however, recommend a better oil pan. They're ~ $300 and it's well worth the cost for the insurance. It wasn't temps that killed my motor, it was oil starvation. Get the baffled pan.

6. There's a guy that has a set of Exotic Muscle headers for sale for $100 on the FS forum. Buy these NOW!!! They're almost $900 new and it's a huge improvement to the stranglers on the stock motor!

Remove the ASR system, the AC, and a few other things and you're at 3200 lbs. That's not a bad power to weight ratio.

You're going to have a lot of fun building this car into a monster over the next few years.

Cobra4B

Cool... looks like a fun beater

Umrswimr

Scareyfast- Thanks for the feedback.

1) I guess my first post was confusing- this car will be a DD/track car for now. At some point it *might* become a pure track car, but that's at least five years in the future/ Right now I simply don't have the money to afford a $10k track toy. For the time being it'll have to be street legal. Of course, I'm gojng from a POS Jeep Cherokee with 195k miles, so even a stripped racecar with plates will be a nicer ride.

2) I really like this idea, especially since spring rates will probably be changed a few times over the life of the car. Coils are a lot cheaper.

3) Will C5 brakes fit under stock sawblades? Under GS wheels?

5) New oil pan- can do!

6) Linky? I can't find them...

For now the A/C will have to stay. It gets really friggin' hot here in the summer and as long as I'm commuting in this puppy, it's gotta have two things: A/C and a Radio. Everything else is negotiable.

ScaryFast

NP...I've been down many roads and made a lot of mistakes with my girl, I can help you avoid some pitfalls if you buy one

Plus, you can hang with us over on the C4 tech forum...good times, good times!

Hey, no badmouthing the Jeeps! I'm on my 4th GC now, you just can't beat 'em! My buddy still has my first one (1997), it's got well over 130K on the clock and runs like a top. Although he did call me about a transmission leak this morning. Hmmmm.

As for a track toy, well, I hate to say it, but once you're fast on the track you'll start wanting stiffer suspension, squeaky brakes, etc. Pretty soon it will become the track-only car you're trying to avoid.


And you can easily change stiffness through spring rates, shocks, etc. I'd say it takes me about 3 hours to change my whole coil over set up now.

I'm not sure about this. Jump over to the C4 tech and do a search, this question gets asked alot as many C4 guys upgrade to the C5 brakes. I'd recommend a new set of wheels, though. The sawblades don't allow a lot of air to the brakes. Plus, you'll start eating them up with brake fluid and dust and they'll look like crap on the street. You can get wheels pretty cheap in the FS section, there's always some track rat like myself unloading a set. The A-molds (Grand Sport or ZR-1) are a great choice, strong, light, and available for a decent price.

I run a Canton, lots of people run the Moroso.

I can't find it either, I'll PM him (ASRoff) and see if they're still available. You have to mess with the cats to fit them, though. Not sure what your emissions plans are. If you need them for the street you have to move them back. It's not too tough, but I've never done it myself. Again, lots of guys have in C4 tech.

Makes sense...I was just down in Houston golfing over New Year's and it was 77. It's HOT in the summer.

-Jon

ScaryFast

BTW, I keep trying to convince my brother-in-law (in Houston) to take his bimmer to the MS Ranch. If I am ever successful you're meeting me there and I'm taking whatever car you bring for a spin