bowtie350_428

In the never ending quest to find a way to fit the Holley Stealth Ram under our stock C4 Hoods, here is yet another idea.

Now honestly, I am not a mechanical engineer, so I don’t know whether or not this theory will work in the real world. And by all means, if this idea is just totally "FUBAR", don't be afraid to say so. I just wanted to share what I have been thinking of and open a discussion with people who have more experience on intake design. I hope I am not opening a can of worms with this one but here it goes...

I have been knocking around an idea of having an HSR with the throttle body mounted on the side intake similar to the FORD intakes on the 5.0. (uhh, i said the F word...) That way a custom plenum could be made shorter from the top to fit under the hood and the lost of plenum volume could be recovered by extending the length on the side of the plenum that goes toward the throttle body. Another benefit to this design is that by having the throttle body mounted on the side and in the middle of the plenum it should help give a more even air distribution to all cylinders. Shouldn’t it?

Here is a top view of what I had in mind...

KENS80V

Arizona Speed and Marine has a setup very similar to what you are describing. It is the first thing you see when you go to their website.

Ken

bowtie350_428

Oh cool, what's the web address!!! I am buying it!

KENS80V

Website is www.azspeed-marine.com This system (superjet) is not cheap and I hear they will not sell the manifold by itself. It's also available in a dropped top version for early model Corvettes with a low hood line.

Ken

jburnett

It would have to be pretty low and you'd have to take off the plenum in order to pull the valve covers. Not to mention totally redoing the air ducting. The cowl width of the hood would also come into play at this point where it does not with a conventionally mounted T.B.
-Jeb

bowtie350_428

Well I went to http://www.azspeed-marine.com/ and I saw the superjet. It is not exactly what I had in mind. The superjet runners seem a lot shorter than the HSR. And the superjet plenum is tall and thin. I was thinking of a short and wide plenum for the HSR. But thanks for the info.

bowtie350_428

As for as the air duct plumbing, yup, you're right. That would have to be rerouted. But to have an HSR fit under the hood with better air dist, I'd be willing to do it.

But you bring up an good point about the valve covers and the cowl width. I guess the only way to be sure is to take some measurements.

How about air distribution to the front and rear runners? Wouldn't it be more even with the throttle body on the side?

BTW jburnett, I have seen pics of your work. Nice craftsmanship! Wouldn't you be willing to take this idea, build it, and provide it to members of this forum for some $$. Just so that you'll, I'm not looking to make money off of this idea. Nor would I be complaining about "hey you took my idea blah blah blah…". This is just an idea I am giving freely to all the intake crafters on this forum in hopes that someday, they will construct a good HSR plenum for our C4s and I'll be the one who buys one from them.

Curveit

This distribution thing has confused me...(not hard to do). I thought on a NA engine, the plenum would be under vacumm as a whole unit. Since it's only sucking air you wouldn't think there would be problems.Perhaps one could put a small "lip" across the top of the plenum, Just behind or over, the front set of intake runners, to direct more air to them.
Like jburnett said, the air-ducting and TB cable, could be a night-mare on a side mount. I'm not so sure "V-ing" the runners would be the best idea, as this would effectively shorten them, and I think they're a little short anyway. It would probably work ok on a big, or high RPM motor though. As usual, just speculating.

86VX1

how come you won't just get a superram or miniram? If you are willing to pay that much to have something custom like the super jet , the mini or the super will cost way less.

are you looking for the different look under the hood or?

Curveit

Stealth-Ram...$299 manifold w/ plenum @ Summit. Mini and Super around $10-1500. That Azspeed unit is way too expensive. If you look at JoBys' mods, you could Dremmel the plenum, and you'd only have to pay someone to weld it to the base, if you couldn't do it yourself. This is providing it works out ok with the thermostat housing and such.

Slalom4me

There is a bit more required than just the manifold & plenum.

Do the math and the cost of the C4 HSR begins to add up.

.

bowtie350_428

Well the SuperRam and Mini Ram are 2 different animals... The SR is more of a low-mid range intake and the mini is a higher range intake. The Holley Stealth Ram is pretty much in the middle of the Road between the SR and Mini.

But honestly I am very, very close to just going with the Accel SuperRam. The only reason why I haven’t yet is because I don’t want to deal with a 5 piece SR intake. And from what I have read on this forum, the SR’s multi-piece design is more prone to vacuum leaks and a B*tch to work on. The HSR only has 2 pieces, is less prone to vacuum leaks and won’t be hard to work on. Also, the HSR will still give better low end TQ than a Mini but will rev higher than an SR.

The only thing the SR has going for it is the low end torque, which is a good thing. But in my case with a ZF6, I can sacrifice a little TQ on the low end.

bowtie350_428

All I know is that hear, with the throttle body up in front of the plenum, the air get unevenly distributed to the front and rear runners. Hopfully someone here can explain it further as I am just repeating what I have heard.
I really don't think this would be that bad. The only thing that may be a pain is the air ducting.
I'm sorry but I don't know what you mean by this. There would be no cutting or "V-ing" of the runners. Perhaps you are refering to Slalom4me's discussion on the thridgen forum. He wants to lengthen the runners using spacers which is another subject.

Curveit

Yea, I was hopeing for some more input on this distribution thing too. I was starting to get excited about the possibility of a reasonably priced intake, and this kinda threw a dampner on it. Input anyone?
The comment about "V-ing" the runners was in reference to jburnetts' idea in another post here. On my screen, yours was just under the other, so I thought it was sort of a continuation of the subject. I did not mean to offend, I've even considered the side mount myself along the way. I agree completely with your comments on the Super-Ram; I want something close to that performance, without the price-tag, and the headaches.

pablocruise

I enrolled in a TIG welding class that started this week at the local community college. As it turns out, the instructor works at hogan's manifolds. He makes most of the 23* SBC intakes and the saleen intakes. I hope to get to know the guy as the semester goes on and maybe get into hogan's to see how they design/flow/test intakes. I have just a small amount of experience with the holley. Maybe I'll pursue it later in the year as my skills develop.
????

JoBy

I can see the posibility of a distribution problem on the HSR because four runners are close to the throttle and four are close to the end of the plenum.

What I don't see is why it should be any worse than TPI / LT1 / LT4 / Miniram ... They all have the same type of narrow plenum with the throttle at the front end.

jburnett

The LTx/MR manifolds have a v'd plenum and the air comes into the runners more horizontally instead of perpendicularly.
-Jeb

JoBy

The air has to make a 90 degree turn into the runners on those too. If the air turns straight down or a bit to the left or right should not make any differance.

The potential problem with the some runners near the throttle and some near the back end is still there.

The plenum volume seems to be similar in size as the HSR.

http://www.pbmotorsports.com/02120012.jpg

Slalom4me

Cylinder location
2 - 4 - 6 - 8 Chevy
1 - 3 - 5 - 7

Firing order:
Chev: 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2

Does greater separation between runners that inhale in succession
help? Instead of 2 clusters of four runner inlets, the TPI/LTx runners
are grouped in 4 clusters of two inlets.

If the inactive runners form part of the net plenum volume, is there a
benefit from having the runners oriented so that the inlets face each
other. Perhaps better enabling them to 'speak' face to face instead of
around corners.

A V'd plenum results in the sides of the runners being closer to equal in
length. Does this accomplish anything?

.

bowtie350_428

Yeah, I see what you mean Joby, but who is to say the TPI / LTx don’t have the same characteristics to a lesser extent.

On the other hand, one thing to think about is the TPI / LTx style intakes have runners that are spaced out farther apart from each other than an HSR. They have the 2 front left runners on one side and 2 front right runners on the other side. Then dido on the rear. But the HSR runners are closer together. It has 4 runner’s all next to each on the front and 4 runners next to each other on rear. I don't know, it's just a thought and I could be full of .

If I am wrong, someone please save me from having this misinformation archived in corvette forum history. I am by no means an expert on intake manifold flow and design. I don’t even know, what the flow numbers look like. So without that, this is all speculation.

So with that in mind, does anyone here have actual numbers or flow tests on these intakes?

Anyone here who has a better a understanding on the air flow characteristic for these intakes, please give us more insight?

BTW Curveit, no offense was taken at all. And yeah, I know what you mean about the SR price tag...