gilmore1967

Folks,
I'm starting my search for a reputable paint shop (local or semi local) for my 67 coupe. I'm not after a show car, just a decent overall body and paint work in a reasonable time. My budget is $10K. I think this is reasonable.

I've got a few shops to visit in the area and was thinking about a list of questions to ask.

Besides bring Barry along I thought I would get a list of reasonable questions to ask.

I'd like some input from the forum.

So far I have:
1) References
2) Start and COMPLETION date
3) Cost (at least range)

I'd like to ask more about:
Equipment (booth, etc?)
Old paint removal (media, chemical, etc?)
Overall condition of shop?
Fiberglass experience?
Brand of paint used?
Should I offer to help from time to time (sanding, etc?)
General feel for business?
How many employees and WHO will be doing the work?
Shop insurance?
By Job or Hour?

I was looking for a thread that has a list of what to ask but did not find one. Do these questions seem reasonable and does the $10K seem like a good place to start?

vintagecorvette

$10000 seems like alot to me. Does the car need any body work?

I just had my 1963 hand stripped and painted BC/CC with Standox paint and it was about $3000. The car needed no work. I removed all the parts such as the soft top, grill, bumpers, trim, headlights and handles. I have not had the hardtop painted yet, but it may be included or cost a few hundred more.

i would keep away from offering to sand. If there is a probelm with the finished product, the painter could blame your sanding.

Most of your questions seem pretty good. I believe that experience with fiberglass and the amount of time that the painter has used the paint are very relative.

My last 5 cars have been painted with Standox, because the painter likes it. I get Dupont really cheap, but the painter would rather use what he is comfortable.

oWEN

Tossin

How about asking how many Corvettes/classic cars they have painted and how often they do them.

And also maybe where your car will be sitting when it's not being actively worked on.

gilmore1967

Great answers. I've added 'how many corvettes' and 'how often' to my list. And I don't think I will do any sanding or even help. I would like to take the bumpers and other pieces and work on those myself to clean and polish them if that's even practial?

As for the body work, nothing major, but I did replace the SB hood with a BB hood and thinks will generally need alighment and such. I'm sure the gaps will need to be adjusted.

BADBIRDCAGE

I don't know where vintagecorvette had his work done but he stole the job at the stated price. There is over 500 dollars in materials alone for such a job.

Average here in Virginia for a strip and repaint quality bc/cc paint job is in the 10K range. That would include the PIA jobs of removing and reinstalling the bumpers, the trim and such.

Vintage is absolutely correct in staying out of the job personally If the shop does the job and there is a problem you have legs to stand on in having the problems corrected. If you stick your hands into it you own it regardless of whether or not the problem has anything to do with your actual participation.

Rich

Paul L

Barry,
You go first.

Old adage: Labour rate $50.00/hr $100.00/hr if you help

gilmore1967

I would think a $3K range seems low, but I suppose possible. From what I understand $10K seems a decent budget. We'll see. Also, I will not do any work. That's a good decision.

I used to live in VA Beach back in the mid seventies, then moved to Roanoke. Bet it's way differnent now. Use to go down to the outer banks often.

Thanks.

gilmore1967

Paul, I would add $150/hour if you watch!

Barry, I'm only complimenting your question data base. AND I will use Barry's web site as good reference. I see he did the chemical stipping. How does that compare to media blasting and if media blasting, what media (walnut shells, etc?)

Paul L

I was being facetious. Barry has a more meaningful tale to tell but I have a few pointers as well that I will relate shortly.

Grey Ghost

I have painted a few cars in my lifetime. I always used PPG, although Dupont is probably just as good. They probably have their favorite and as long as you use the same manufacturers product from start to finish it should be okay. Now, each manufacturer has different product lines...high end and low end stuff. Make sure you tell them that you want the best high end/quality line of paint for that manufacturer.

Have they worked on a midyear before ? If you have original panels. The seam lines of the bonding strips needs ground out and refilled with a modern filler. The original material would shrink, leaving low lines that you can still see. If you want the best shine and appearance ask for a 'color sanded' job. After all the paint and clear coat is on the car. They will gradually sand the surface completely flat and then polish it. It will look like a mirror, if done correctly. If you are going back silver. Be careful of streaked appearance from the paint gun. Metallics are more difficult to work with than solid colors. Make sure, they are experienced with metallics.

Ask if they will shoot some test panels, that you can see in the sunlight, to verify the color appears to be the correct shade or to your liking. Most shops mix their paint onsite. They can play with the formulation to change the shade.

I always removed as many things as possible. Tailights, emblems, etc...some people just tape around them. Ask what they will remove and what they will tape over. How about blacking out the underside of the new hood ? If they do and if you need it...will they go ahead and shoot some of your interior pieces ? ie; radio panels, console, trim, etc..if you need it done.

Are they bonded/insured ? And what about your insurance while the car is in the shop ?

As others have said. The more experience a shop has with fiberglass and midyears. The better off you will be.

After the paint job. Look closely for streaks, runs, trash, etc...look in the gills and bottom of the panels to make sure they had good coverage and didn't miss the spots down low. Get some GOOD AMERICAN microfiber towels for washing and drying. Set aside dedicated wash and dry towels only for the car and keep them clean. Set aside dedicated wash buckets. After a few months, get some good Meguirs wax from the autobody supply store. They carry the professional strength, not the watered down Wal-Mart line.

Hope this helps.

gilmore1967

yes, helps very much. I'm adding this to a list that I will post for others when I'm finished.

kellsdad

Try to specify as much detail as possible in writing in advance. For example, what will be removed, masked and otherwise protected (e.g., your interior during sanding)? Will the engine bay, underside of the fenders and bottom of the car be painted? What colors? Will the door jams be painted? Will the removable parts be painted at the same time with the same paint batch as the body to assure consistent color? Will the shop give you final approval of the finished job with no increased cost? Will the shop discount the price if the job is substantially late (e.g., 5% per week)? How many coats of paint/clear will be applied? Will the shop touch up any minor scratches you may cause while you're reassembling the car at no additional charge?

The worst mistake you can make is to assume the shop will do things the way you want without getting their agreement in writing.

BarryK

Hi Dave
believe me, I'm FAR from any paint expert and what very little I've picked up is only from my one paint job experience.

but since you brought me into this by mentioning me in your post I'll add my 2 cents in on a few things but it's no better than anyone elses advice ot suggestions and in some cases may be worst.

1. check with other older vette owners in your area and see who they used or recommend
2. i'd ask and see how much experience the painter has on older vettes and if at all possible see some of his completed work.
3. condition of the shop may be an indication of good or poor quality but many times not. Where my car was done the painter had a very small shop and it was NOTHING impressive at all - unless you looked at the array of cars he had in the shop to work on. His customers know the quality of his work so they don't care what the building looks like.
4. make sure the painter has or has access to a paint booth.
My painter has painted many cars without a booth that came out incredibly well, but a booth is always better. His last shop had one but the new smaller shop doesn't BUT he has access to one that he can use whenever he needs so that's what he does.
5. I don't think brand of paint is important as much as what your painter is used to. Most painters seems to have "adopted" using a particular brand for one reason or another and as long as they use what they are used to and comfortable with and know well than it should look good.
6. if he has employees see who would be working on the car and how much experience THEY have, not just the main owner. this was a moot point in my case as he is the only one there.
7. paint stripping: you can search the archives and find TONS of answers, opinions, discussions, detates, arguments, etc over what people feel is the best way to strip the old paint betweem chenical stripping, sanding, or media blasting. I'll not type all the advantages or disadvantages because you can search for them and i'm too tired from working all night to type all that. I'll simply state MY OWN opinion. I like chemical stripping and that is what was done on my car. As long as it's done correctly and the car and fiberglass washed thoroughly and properly after each panel is done and than the painter allows time for any possible remaining residue to vent out than it should not be any problem later on. my car sat for over two weeks untouched as he let it vent before proceeding to any fiberglass work. Besides that, between the striping and the actually painting it was 8-9 months while he did the bodywork and the fiberglass kept venting all that time and I don't have a single solvent pop. My second choice would be sanding but if the bodyman is not very careful it's easy to round off the sharp creases and bodylines of the car. i'd never let anyone near my car with a media blasting machine simply because if the techican does know exactly what they are doing they can destroy the body.
8. I would NOT help out on the work except maybe during disassembly and/or reassembly if they welcome your help but not at all on any bodywork or painting steps. As someone already mentioned, if you helped out and ANYTHING was wrong at the end you don't have much recourse as he can say "well, that's the area YOU did".
9. Cost: 10K should get you an excellent paint job and you most likey can find someone to do an excellent job for even less. a lot will depend on if and how much bodywork the car may need that you really will not know the extent of until the old paint is off. I think my case was rare and not to be expected but i brought my car in for the painter to look at for a quote. He looked it over and gave me a price. we both expected very little bodywork was needed - just one or two areas to improve but we were both shocked to see the extent of the 'bubba bodywork" performed over 40 years once we had the paint off. The amount of unexpected bodywork increased the timeframe on the job by an additional 6 months. The surprising thing is that once we saw how much extensive work was needed that wasn't originally planned for he never once came to me and said he needed more money for all the extra labor he had to put in - he stuck by his original quote. I wouldn't expect that to happen at many places though especially when adding in an extra six months of labor!
BTW, as a comparison while you are shopping around and getting price quotes, I'll tell you that my paint job including all the extra unexpected bodywork cost me $5000.00. That was for BC/CC. If I went lacquer it would have been about a $1000.00 more he said for the extra rubbing out between coats. Still, even with BC/CC, he wetsanded after the first two color coats, than layed down two more color coats. Than he wetsanded after the 3 or 4 coats of clear before buffing it all out.
10. As a driver car I'm go with BC/CC. it's easier to fix when you eventually get chips or scratches in the future and easier to match and blend in after any paint repairs. Lacquer can look great but it's not as durable and it's not as easy to match up and blend in. My painter only recommends lacquer if it's a trailered show car.
11. payment: Many, many people will disagree wih me on this and on some shops I wouldn't do it, but with my painter what worked best is that I paid for the job as we went along - I paind him a percentage after each completed step. he got partial payments after the stripping was done, than after the bodywork was done, than after the paint was done, than the samll balance still left when the car was finish and completed and I went to pick it up. In MY case it worked because the car was there almost a year, he is the only guy in his shop with a lot of cars to work on which is why it takes him a while to get them finished. This way he knew he would get money as work progressed so he would work on it instead of letting it sit as he worked on all the other cars, plus it gave him some cash flow as the year went by. It won'y work that way for everyone or every shop but in this cars with this painter it worked well.
12. take the windshield and rear window out! Paul didn't have his glass removed but i think his car was in much better condition than mine. I specifically wanted the glass out if for no other reason than I wanted to get the front and rear glass gaskets replaced to help cut down on major leaks I had. At the same time it allowed him to clean up around the windshield and rear window channels, prime it, and paint it than i had not only new gaskets, but also all new clips, screws, etc installed.
13. You may be able to tell from pics on my website, but the gaps around the doors, headlight buckets, and hood were a HUGE pet peeve to me and I wanted them perfect. I know they weren't perfect from the factory and making them so would be "over-restoring" the car but it's MY car and that's the way i wanted them so he spent a great deal of time getting the gaps very even and consistent.
14. Time frame: you can try to get a rough time froame on how long he expects to have the car but if it goes over his estimate don't be surprised. My attitude, although I'm a VERY impatient person by nature, was that as long as he is making it as good as he can than he can keep having the car no matter how long it took. If you try to "rush" a shop chances are it will come out looking like a rush job. I knew going in that my painter had a repitaion for being slow and the average time frame would be a year. The fact that I got it back in 10 1/2 months still amazes most people around here because for my painter that is fast! The point being, you don't get paint jobs often for let him take the time he needs and don't be ruled by a set schedule or timetable. As long as he is working on it and not letting it sit around than let it take as long as it takes to get it done right the first time.
15. kellsdad is right about getting everything in writing upfront. Not hard to do and it can save a lot of heartache or problems months later.

well, that's all I can think of for now.
keep in mind this is just MY experience and from the painter i used.
Many others may disagree with many of my points and maybe for good reason but a lot will depend on the shop you end up using plus your own preferences

gilmore1967

Barry,
Thanks for all the input. I really appreciate it. I'm going to visit my first shop Monday. I was at a car show and got this guys name and number. Best way to advertise I think.

Here's the list of questions I currently have.

* I'm trying an attachment. If it does not come out, I will cut and paste

I'll add to remove the front and back glass to my list. I assume a good body shop should be able to remove and replace glass without damage? I guess I need to be clear if it is damaged, who pays for replacement?

I also agree with getting everything in clear print as a contract. After paint, I will do the interior.

Thanks again.

PS,
Here's a picture with the new BB hood on it along with some of my fabrication.

ragtopman

....and I would like to add 1 more item to your list of things to do. When it is time to take possesion of your freshly painted, sanded and buffed car, tell who ever it is that your dealing with that you want to inspect the car indoors under artificial lights and not outdoors in the sun.

achapman

gilmore1967

Got it added. This is all really great information.

panchop

I would suggest not just that you ask him when it will be complete but also what happens if he misses his deadline. i must have heard "couple more weeks" a dozen times. i was feeling like charlie brown trying to punt the football lucy holds. took a year to get back the car. your budget sounds about right to me. i had a new front end installed from corvette image. new windsheild. paint stripped down to fiberglass and boarded straight. new taillights. cost about $15000. you might also want to budget a few K for stuff as you go along. i rechromed everything, sent the radio out for modernazation, bought some new interior panels and had the seats redone. just seems like the time to do it.

SAMS67427

Hello Gilmore......I live about 50 mi north west of you on the river,in New Johnsonville on highway 70. You have in your back door one of the best corvette bodyman and paint man in the country "Jacobs Custom Auto Body" in Centerville. Gary Jacobs is a great guy and his son Patrick is going to be as good if not better than he.Gary painted a 66 coupe for me about 5 years ago, it was Beauiful. When I decided to sell the car, I think it was more the quailty of the paint job than any other thing about the car that caused it to sell so fast. The 1st guy that looked at it bought it. I think Gary ,as a rule, figures $50 hr for 120 hrs on his paint jobs. I've got a 67 vert that needs paint and just a soon as I can round the $ up,"Hopifully this next Fall" I'm going to go straight to him.He will also ask you if you just want a pretty paint job for a better than avg.driver or a show quailty paint job. I think for the amount of $ your willing to spend, he'll save you alot and you will get a Gut Slick paint job. Tell him Sammy sent you to him. His business # is in the Centerville ph book. Check him out before you do anything. HAVE A GOOD ONE!!!!!

gilmore1967

I've talked to Gary, but have not visited his shop yet. I will do that soon.

Thanks Sammy.