My ride height is level now (cross car)!
12-27-2005, 03:16 PM
#1
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
My ride height is level now (cross car)!
After lowering my car years ago, the passenger side rear was always been about 3/8" higher than the driver's side. This seems to be a common problem.
I decided a little rear sway bar pre-load ought to do the trick, so I shimmed up the drivers side sway bar mounting bracket (attached by two 1/2" bolts on top of the rear knuckle) . I used 5 washers to get 3/8" lift.
This was a simple and basically free alternative to adjustable links, and it worked.
Ride height on both rears is now 27 3/8" at the wheel arch above the wheel centerline, and 26 1/16" on both fronts.
I will probably back off on the spring bolts to drop the rears a bit more, but I still want to keep the half shafts nearly level, so I can't go too far.
I decided a little rear sway bar pre-load ought to do the trick, so I shimmed up the drivers side sway bar mounting bracket (attached by two 1/2" bolts on top of the rear knuckle) . I used 5 washers to get 3/8" lift.
This was a simple and basically free alternative to adjustable links, and it worked.
Ride height on both rears is now 27 3/8" at the wheel arch above the wheel centerline, and 26 1/16" on both fronts.
I will probably back off on the spring bolts to drop the rears a bit more, but I still want to keep the half shafts nearly level, so I can't go too far.
12-27-2005, 03:59 PM
#2
Le Mans Master
HHHMMMM, sounds reasonable I keep thinking it's a front spring related issue (even height). When you re-set rear lowering bolts please post and let us know the effect. M7
12-28-2005, 11:16 AM
#4
Melting Slicks
For sure it's NOT a spring issue... (not in my car...)
I tried all the positions of the spring bolt (using a set of longer bolts) and the driver side is always lower than the pass side.
I have to try your trick... I don't think there are wrong side effect doing this...
-Beppe-
I tried all the positions of the spring bolt (using a set of longer bolts) and the driver side is always lower than the pass side.
I have to try your trick... I don't think there are wrong side effect doing this...
-Beppe-
12-28-2005, 11:21 AM
#5
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The drivers side of my car in the rear sits higher than the passenger side without even having a lowering kit on it. I even got new Bilsteins put on and it still didn't affect anything. I will be lowering the car eventually sometime soon and will make note of what you did.
01-02-2006, 02:50 PM
#6
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
I readjusted my springs again and now have the rear ride height down to 27 3/16" on both sides.
The adjustment seems to be holding reasonably well after driving around a bit to let the suspension settle in.
One measurment taken after backing up had the passenger side at 26 3/4" and the driver's side at 27".
I was shocked since I have never seen the passenger side lower before. After pulling forward into the garage, both sides came back up to 27 3/16".
So far so good and I'm pretty happy with the results.
Note: my front ride height offset basically took care of itself after re-locating the battery to the rr storage compartment. The passenger side used to be higher in the front as well.
Gotta get the car back up on scales to see what's going on with my corner weights, but it should be more balanced now.
The adjustment seems to be holding reasonably well after driving around a bit to let the suspension settle in.
One measurment taken after backing up had the passenger side at 26 3/4" and the driver's side at 27".
I was shocked since I have never seen the passenger side lower before. After pulling forward into the garage, both sides came back up to 27 3/16".
So far so good and I'm pretty happy with the results.
Note: my front ride height offset basically took care of itself after re-locating the battery to the rr storage compartment. The passenger side used to be higher in the front as well.
Gotta get the car back up on scales to see what's going on with my corner weights, but it should be more balanced now.
01-02-2006, 03:55 PM
#7
Le Mans Master
GOOD INFO!
I've got the same condition and was hoping someone would come up with a solution. He**, a couple of years ago, I even removed and swapped the rear spring around trying to solve the condition; didn't solve it.
I'll give your tip a try.
Thanks, and HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL!
Jake
I've got the same condition and was hoping someone would come up with a solution. He**, a couple of years ago, I even removed and swapped the rear spring around trying to solve the condition; didn't solve it.
I'll give your tip a try.
Thanks, and HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL!
Jake
01-02-2006, 05:18 PM
#8
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In all the setups I've been involved in, the sway bar has not been preloaded in this fashion. With the bar disconnected, the ride height is established with spring perches or the equivilent. Then the bar is connected ensuring the last rod end bolt "slides" right in.
With the bar peloaded, your also increasing the spring rate and using the bar against its intended design function.
IMHO disconnect the swaybar and try resetting the ride height with the rear spring bolts/nuts. (Yes there may be different lengths on the bolts.)
With the bar peloaded, your also increasing the spring rate and using the bar against its intended design function.
IMHO disconnect the swaybar and try resetting the ride height with the rear spring bolts/nuts. (Yes there may be different lengths on the bolts.)
Last edited by JrRifleCoach; 01-02-2006 at 05:21 PM.
01-02-2006, 06:47 PM
#9
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
JrRifle: Thanks for the input.
I agree an ideal setup would have zero pre-load on the sway bar, and equal ride heights on each side, as well as nearly equal corner weights.
I suspect that a pre-loaded condition existed in the chassis before, in the opposite direction, contributing to the original ride height offset.
I think my shims have helped restore a more neutral condition on the rear bar.
I just haven't bothered to disconnect a link again to verify.
I agree an ideal setup would have zero pre-load on the sway bar, and equal ride heights on each side, as well as nearly equal corner weights.
I suspect that a pre-loaded condition existed in the chassis before, in the opposite direction, contributing to the original ride height offset.
I think my shims have helped restore a more neutral condition on the rear bar.
I just haven't bothered to disconnect a link again to verify.
01-03-2006, 12:54 PM
#10
Le Mans Master
This is an interesting discussion and I'm glad it's going on. My thoughts on this are:
If a longer spring bolt is used on just one side to lower it to a point where both sides are of equal height, then that side of the spring will have less pre-load than the other. This, too could effect handling.
Up until now, the only way I've been able to lower the passenger side of my car so that it is close to being the same height as the driver's side was to use a longer bolt on the passenger side, thus lowering it. I DO believe that my handling has been compromised somewhat by doing it this way, but not to such an extent that I'd consider going back to the crooked way my car would look when viewed from the rear without the longer bolt installed.
So, for me, it's sort of a trade off: Have a cocked rear end view OR have one side of the rear spring with less pre-load.
I went to ACE and bought some washers last evening and plan to install them today to see if the sway bar mod is an improvement over the spring pre-load mod that I'm using now.
I plan to re-install the stock spring bolt on the passenger side, then use the washers on that side instead. Then I'll drive the car for a couple of days to see what, if any, difference there is. I'll post what I come up with.
Jake
If a longer spring bolt is used on just one side to lower it to a point where both sides are of equal height, then that side of the spring will have less pre-load than the other. This, too could effect handling.
Up until now, the only way I've been able to lower the passenger side of my car so that it is close to being the same height as the driver's side was to use a longer bolt on the passenger side, thus lowering it. I DO believe that my handling has been compromised somewhat by doing it this way, but not to such an extent that I'd consider going back to the crooked way my car would look when viewed from the rear without the longer bolt installed.
So, for me, it's sort of a trade off: Have a cocked rear end view OR have one side of the rear spring with less pre-load.
I went to ACE and bought some washers last evening and plan to install them today to see if the sway bar mod is an improvement over the spring pre-load mod that I'm using now.
I plan to re-install the stock spring bolt on the passenger side, then use the washers on that side instead. Then I'll drive the car for a couple of days to see what, if any, difference there is. I'll post what I come up with.
Jake
02-03-2006, 01:43 PM
#11
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Had the same symptom on my '91.
Adjusted the REAR spring bolts to compensate.
Chassis works like a big "X" whichever corner you want to adjust, go to the oposite diagonal corner.
In my case it was the LEFT FRONT that was low (same as everybody else's).
I went to the RIGHT REAR and lowered that corner.
Car sits level now.
THis is not unusual BTW. Seems a LOT of them are like this... but I've had folks FLAME me for stating it.
Adjusted the REAR spring bolts to compensate.
Chassis works like a big "X" whichever corner you want to adjust, go to the oposite diagonal corner.
In my case it was the LEFT FRONT that was low (same as everybody else's).
I went to the RIGHT REAR and lowered that corner.
Car sits level now.
THis is not unusual BTW. Seems a LOT of them are like this... but I've had folks FLAME me for stating it.
02-03-2006, 08:47 PM
#12
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Originally Posted by VetNutJim
Had the same symptom on my '91.
Adjusted the REAR spring bolts to compensate.
Chassis works like a big "X" whichever corner you want to adjust, go to the oposite diagonal corner.
In my case it was the LEFT FRONT that was low (same as everybody else's).
I went to the RIGHT REAR and lowered that corner.
Car sits level now.
THis is not unusual BTW. Seems a LOT of them are like this... but I've had folks FLAME me for stating it.
Adjusted the REAR spring bolts to compensate.
Chassis works like a big "X" whichever corner you want to adjust, go to the oposite diagonal corner.
In my case it was the LEFT FRONT that was low (same as everybody else's).
I went to the RIGHT REAR and lowered that corner.
Car sits level now.
THis is not unusual BTW. Seems a LOT of them are like this... but I've had folks FLAME me for stating it.
I had the same situation when i lowered mine. Lowered one corner more and fixed both corners
02-03-2006, 09:25 PM
#13
Burning Brakes
This is interesting.....
What may be more important (than looks
) is the actual weight supported on each corner. "Corner balancing" is a big deal in Porsche circles (the older 911's are adjustable torsion bar suspension). I think a may have to find some scales and start checking my corner weights vs. ride height inequities. 
What may be more important (than looks
) is the actual weight supported on each corner. "Corner balancing" is a big deal in Porsche circles (the older 911's are adjustable torsion bar suspension). I think a may have to find some scales and start checking my corner weights vs. ride height inequities.
02-24-2006, 03:49 PM
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Swaybar Torsion Fatigue
I have an 86 coupe that the drivers side is about a half inch lower than the passenger side in the rear. Turns out the rear swaybar was the culprit! After removing it, one end touched the floor, the other was "the half inch" off the floor! The driver's side "end" had, over the years, twisted upwards pulling the left side suspension with it towards the body. Since I'm not replacing my swaybar one solution to this torsion fatigue is to make up the difference in the length of the affected swaybar endlink. In other words, lengthen or drop the drivers side to make the wheel centerline parallel again with the body of the swaybar. A solution found in the original thread by adding shims to lengthen the end link to make up the difference was right on. Something that I'm going to try short of installing adjustable endlinks or bending the swaybar back to its original position. Has anyone had any luck in doing this without weakening the torsional strength? As far as adding preload to the swaybar in the original thread I believe the preload was removed once everything was square again.
Last edited by RichardR63; 02-24-2006 at 03:56 PM.
02-24-2006, 05:56 PM
#15
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Good information.
Thanks for posting, I bet a lot of sway bars and/or chassis are offset a bit. I never pulled mine to check it. It was just easier to compensate with the shims and check the results.
Thanks for posting, I bet a lot of sway bars and/or chassis are offset a bit. I never pulled mine to check it. It was just easier to compensate with the shims and check the results.
02-24-2006, 11:28 PM
#16
How much offset difference (on the length of the bolts) does everyone think is reasonable for the rear? IE how much different should the rear bolts be without causing any trouble since you are in effect loading up the suspension again. My new swaybar is not in nuetral with one side pulling up more than the other.
Richard
Richard
02-25-2006, 12:19 AM
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Dear nonetooclose,
Are you referring to your spring bolts? They are a separate matter from your swaybar and its endlinks. To fix the flex in your swaybar you need to shim the endlink the amount that it is up or out of alignment. In the original thread his swaybar was up or flexed 3/8" the same amount he lengthened or shimmed with washers that sides endlink. Back to your spring bolts, with the swaybar disconnected, the position or height of each nut should be pretty much the same. If at this point the rear is not level then adjust with the cross method. Then you can hook your swaybar back up. Hopefully with no preload. In referring to the amount of difference in height between the spring bolt nuts you shouldn't have an extreme amount. If you do then you may have a problem with your springs or frame. If you want to lower your car install longer spring bolts. I hope that I was able to help.
Are you referring to your spring bolts? They are a separate matter from your swaybar and its endlinks. To fix the flex in your swaybar you need to shim the endlink the amount that it is up or out of alignment. In the original thread his swaybar was up or flexed 3/8" the same amount he lengthened or shimmed with washers that sides endlink. Back to your spring bolts, with the swaybar disconnected, the position or height of each nut should be pretty much the same. If at this point the rear is not level then adjust with the cross method. Then you can hook your swaybar back up. Hopefully with no preload. In referring to the amount of difference in height between the spring bolt nuts you shouldn't have an extreme amount. If you do then you may have a problem with your springs or frame. If you want to lower your car install longer spring bolts. I hope that I was able to help.
Last edited by RichardR63; 02-25-2006 at 12:40 AM.
02-25-2006, 12:54 AM
#18
Originally Posted by RichardR63
Dear nonetooclose,
Are you referring to your spring bolts? They are a separate matter from your swaybar and its endlinks. To fix the flex in your swaybar you need to shim the endlink the amount that it is up or out of alignment. In the original thread his swaybar was up or flexed 3/8" the same amount he lengthened or shimmed with washers that sides endlink. Back to your spring bolts, with the swaybar disconnected, the position or height of each nut should be pretty much the same. If at this point the rear is not level then adjust with the cross method. Then you can hook your swaybar back up. Hopefully with no preload. In referring to the amount of difference in height between the spring bolt nuts you shouldn't have an extreme amount. If you do then you may have a problem with your springs or frame. If you want to lower your car install longer spring bolts. I hope that I was able to help.
Are you referring to your spring bolts? They are a separate matter from your swaybar and its endlinks. To fix the flex in your swaybar you need to shim the endlink the amount that it is up or out of alignment. In the original thread his swaybar was up or flexed 3/8" the same amount he lengthened or shimmed with washers that sides endlink. Back to your spring bolts, with the swaybar disconnected, the position or height of each nut should be pretty much the same. If at this point the rear is not level then adjust with the cross method. Then you can hook your swaybar back up. Hopefully with no preload. In referring to the amount of difference in height between the spring bolt nuts you shouldn't have an extreme amount. If you do then you may have a problem with your springs or frame. If you want to lower your car install longer spring bolts. I hope that I was able to help.
02-25-2006, 04:45 PM
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Dear nonetooclose,
7/8" out? Where did you get this number? Is this how much higher one side of the car is than the other, usually measured at the highest point of each wheelwell to the floor at the rear? Or is this number the difference in heights of the springbolt nuts? And is this number with the swaybar still hooked up not hooked up? Have you actually "removed" your swaybar from the car and measured how much it has flexed? Do this by setting it on a level surface and measuring how far one end is off the surface while the other touches the surface. This will be your shim height providing it is actually out of alignment. We need to know how far out the swaybar is by itself. This number has nothing to do with the spring bolts only the amount needed to shim the endlink bracket. Then we can proceed to work on leveling the car by the spring bolts ie using the cross method, simply raising or lowering the springbolt nuts to achieve this.
7/8" out? Where did you get this number? Is this how much higher one side of the car is than the other, usually measured at the highest point of each wheelwell to the floor at the rear? Or is this number the difference in heights of the springbolt nuts? And is this number with the swaybar still hooked up not hooked up? Have you actually "removed" your swaybar from the car and measured how much it has flexed? Do this by setting it on a level surface and measuring how far one end is off the surface while the other touches the surface. This will be your shim height providing it is actually out of alignment. We need to know how far out the swaybar is by itself. This number has nothing to do with the spring bolts only the amount needed to shim the endlink bracket. Then we can proceed to work on leveling the car by the spring bolts ie using the cross method, simply raising or lowering the springbolt nuts to achieve this.
Last edited by RichardR63; 02-25-2006 at 04:59 PM.
02-27-2006, 11:16 AM
#20
Originally Posted by RichardR63
Dear nonetooclose,
7/8" out? Where did you get this number? Is this how much higher one side of the car is than the other, usually measured at the highest point of each wheelwell to the floor at the rear? Or is this number the difference in heights of the springbolt nuts? And is this number with the swaybar still hooked up not hooked up? Have you actually "removed" your swaybar from the car and measured how much it has flexed? Do this by setting it on a level surface and measuring how far one end is off the surface while the other touches the surface. This will be your shim height providing it is actually out of alignment. We need to know how far out the swaybar is by itself. This number has nothing to do with the spring bolts only the amount needed to shim the endlink bracket. Then we can proceed to work on leveling the car by the spring bolts ie using the cross method, simply raising or lowering the springbolt nuts to achieve this.
7/8" out? Where did you get this number? Is this how much higher one side of the car is than the other, usually measured at the highest point of each wheelwell to the floor at the rear? Or is this number the difference in heights of the springbolt nuts? And is this number with the swaybar still hooked up not hooked up? Have you actually "removed" your swaybar from the car and measured how much it has flexed? Do this by setting it on a level surface and measuring how far one end is off the surface while the other touches the surface. This will be your shim height providing it is actually out of alignment. We need to know how far out the swaybar is by itself. This number has nothing to do with the spring bolts only the amount needed to shim the endlink bracket. Then we can proceed to work on leveling the car by the spring bolts ie using the cross method, simply raising or lowering the springbolt nuts to achieve this.
The 7/8" is how much off the swaybar is from nuetral when everything is hooked up with the heights from side to side as close as I can get without running the nut all the way up on the spring (DS). The swaybar is brand new and did not have any flex when I had it on the flat concrete.
My particular problem may actually be the spring since I feel that it is quite excessive to have >1" of difference between the two spring bolts?
Richard