Slalom4me

A fellow participant at an event had a fire
yesterday and this has left me with some
questions and comments.

Questions

• What effect does the chemical in ABC extinguishers
  have on surfaces? How soon should it be removed and
  what is the best way to do so.
• What is the preferred all-purpose extinguisher.
• What is an insurance company's position about coverage
  for a fire at an event.
• What obligations do organizers have regarding fire.

Comments

• I'll never again question the importance of packing
  my awkward ABC-10-G extinguisher out to events.
• If you see a fire situation and you have an
  extinguisher then get to the scene, even if you see
  others already on their way with their extinguishers.
• At least one extinguisher will fail to work and
  another will run out of chemical.
• Be ready to immediately discharge into the gap
  when the hood pops, don't wait for someone to
  release the safety latch.
• Aim low and conserve chemical. Expect the fire to
  restart at least twice.
• If people discharge extinguishers to save your
  property, show your appreciation by offering to pay for
  a recharge.

.

0Randy@DRM

Fires are never good. They always make a huge mess. The best thing in most cases is to put a fire blanket over the fire. This way there is less of a mess to clean. If it is a big fire, shoot low! Find the cause and shoot it. Turn the key or saftey switch. Be very carefull when you open the hood. I was at a auto-x when a radiator hose popped off. I knew we didn't have a lot of stuff to put out the fire right handy. So I told the kid to leave the hood closed until back up came. After we had about 3 bottles handy. The hood came up and fire went everywhere. If we had tried with one bottle, I don't think we could have put out the open hood fire. Turbos and antifreeze don't mix well!!!


Randy

Red Tornado

i'd like to know the answer to the first question.

rbeckham

Dry chemical extinguishers create a holy mess; don't know in particular if the chemicals are corrosive to under hood components, but I wouldn't be surprised. One went off in my trunk once, and I suspect the stuff is still embedded in there. I certainly hope the engine was not running when the chemical was introduced.

I have a "Halotron" extinguisher mounted on my roll bar. It is an inert gas substitute for halon, since halon is no longer produced. They are not cheap (+/-$100 for a five-pounder) but if I ever need to use it, it will have been worth it. I carry a 20-pound dry chemical extinquisher mounted in the bed of my truck as a backup.

Red Tornado

if there;s any wind, you'll be screwed with a halotron; good luck in putting out the fire. the dry chemical will smother the flames better. this is what the local fire dept. told me.

i didn't ask them regarding the cleaning up of the chemical from underhood components.

rbeckham

I don't know, but this might be right. Halon certainly works best in an enclosed space (engine compartments of cars or boats). Just trying to address the questions. Sounds like the important things are to shut off the fire source (fuel?) and get whatever suppressant to the base of the fire asap. As someone else pointed out, one extinguisher of any kind probably won't be enough for a serious fire.

IF I AM ON FIRE, I would appreciate someone directing the halotron on me.

rightofway

careful with those hoses because they will burn you as bad as the fire. had a friend who had a small leak at the radiator neck and when he went to push it on some more it popped of and burned him from the belly button to his knees 2nd degree

the blur

my theory is to let the car burn to the ground, and collect the insurance check.

DonBecker

Who do you have insurance with, and let us know when you get that 'fat check'...

CentralCoaster

Thanks for the tips. I don't have answers for you, but I should definitely be packing an extinguisher on my trips to the track, especially with an oily motor.

Redeasysport

I have Haggerty $15k agreed value.I have learned enough to get an LT4 next time

the blur

all my cars have "fire & theft".
If it burns at auto-x, you wern't "racing", you were parked. that is fully covered !! There is nothing to argue about.

CentralCoaster

I only go to the track to spectate! I just like parking in the pits so I can bump shoulders with real racers.


I sure as hell don't expect the swarm of ricers to come to my rescue when my car's burning at the track. They'll swarm alright, but they'll only be armed with their camera phones.

Lichen

If you were racing, you can probably forget about insurance. Years ago, my Travelall engine caught on fire, and the hood was so hot, we couldn't open the hood. When the fire department arrived, they sprayed it down with some white crap. It was a mess to clean up, but it didn't seem to do any more damage than the fire caused. Had it running in a few days (but then it wasn't a Corvette with all the computerized gizmos).

Slalom4me

This event was hosted jointly by two local
german car clubs. The car that burned was
a 944 style Porsche. It was lowered, had flared
wheel wells (OEM?), aftermarket wheels and some
non-OEM hardware under the hood. I am not familiar
with this marque and don't know whether it was one
of the later turbo cars that Porsche built on this
platform.

The driver didn't know about the fire. He must
have had some reason for coming in to the stop
box slower than we usually do though. He stopped
at the cone then proceeded toward the cool down
area but stopped, shut it down and jumped out
when he heard all the yelling.

After the excitement, one of the organizers
mentioned to me that he expected that the car
would be written off. Although it seemed to me
that the damage had been contained, the organizer,
a principal at one of the local euro tuner shops
who has seen his share of damaged vehicles, said
the chemical was highly corrosive and would damage
the paint and drivetrain components.

I recalled seeing base personnel washing vehicles
outside a check point we pass to get onto the air
strip on previous occasions. We pushed the car there
and the guard fixed the owner up with a hose so he
could rinse off the residue.

The car owner seemed ok but acted kind of detached,
even indifferent. Later as I thought more about his
behavior, I realized he was probably in shock. He
wasn't rejecting help but he just didn't seem to be
in a state to be thinking much about what to do next.

I mention this last part because at the time I was
getting a bit annoyed feeling that I cared more about
the guy's car than he did. Now, I'm sure that's not
the case and am glad several of us pitched in to try
to cut the losses and get him on his way as best we
could. If you are ever in a similar situation, things
are not always what they may appear to be.

.

bogus

I don't see why running at an autocross and having a fire could be connected.

The reality is that the fire could have happened on his way home, as effortlessly as it did at the track.

It's not like he hit a light standard or wiped out on the armco.

Slalom4me

Another comment comes to mind

• If it is reasonable to do so, try to bring the car
  to a stop close to as much help as possible. But not
  TOO close

Good thinking Randy@DRM about waiting for
reinforcements. When the hood pops, the fire flares up
and it's best to be ready with force to back up your
efforts. I think you were more level-headed than
I would have been.

I think rbeckham and Hot Rod 90 are both right. I
know I'd want Halon or its replacement in the cabin
helping me so I didn't get blinded by the chemical.
But in the open or where a flammable is being
reignited by hot surfaces or electrical shorts, I'd want
the chemical. Maybe the ideal setup is a primary clean
agent with a secondary chemical backup on board.
Not like this is going to happen at a club level,
however.

I agree with the opinion that there is a dim chance of
claiming against insurance coverage. While what took
place could have happened on the highway or at the
mall, it didn't. All the photos will be useless for
supporting any claim if the company takes the
line 'we don't cover incidents incurred during
competition'. In the owner's favour is that
yesterday's runs WERE NOT BEING TIMED. They
usually are but it was cold and had rained earlier
so it was decided to just take untimed solo laps.

I know what CentralCoaster is saying about not
expecting help from certain elements. However, in
my experience, I'd say that this might be more
attributable to youthful inexperience and lack of
preparedness than anything else. I don't live in his
neighborhood and can't say what folks are like there.
Fortunately here in mine, underneath it all car guys
are car guys and I think anyone that could, would
jump to help a brother gearhead.

Incidently, last I heard, no one had any solid idea
about what caused the fire.

.

CentralCoaster

Your perception of him just being dejected sounds reasonable.

As for the local scene here...

My last time at the track, a guy flipped his Nova(?) and smashed it up pretty good. By the time they got it on a flatbed to get it out of there, there was a huge throng of ricers and their cell phone snapping pictures. They literally had to clear a path through the swath of people. Not that they could have helped at all, but I feel pretty bad for the driver having to see that. And I just can't visualize these guys being responsible enough to bring a fire extinguisher.

JrRifleCoach

Shortly after joining the forum the many stories of engine compartment fires sent me straight to the store and purchase two 2.5 lb ABC bottles. Also a hand grenade just in case the fire got out of control!

Slalom4me

In our case, there weren't many people. (There are
never any spectators per se, only the drivers and
sometimes a buddy or a SO.) Still, in the aftermath,
one joker wrote 'For Sale' in the chemical on the
passenger side window. I heard someone else
jokingly ask the owner 'can I have your wheels'.

Not my idea of humour but it takes all kinds. I put
it down to human nature and the need to release
tension.

There were at least three cameras in use.

.