95jersey

I plan on changing my worn out bushings to some new poly's in the next couple of weeks. I plan on doing the entire suspension (sway bars, control arms..)

I know there are many brands of Poly's and have heard some are much better than others...any recommendations? I know VBP makes some good ones, any others?

Are they any "gottcha's", I should look out for?

Thanks guys!

dmtnt

One thing I do know is that the VBP upper front control arm bushings include the bar that runs through them where others such as Prothane do not. I bought VB&P for my car.

ghoffman

I had VB&P for my car as well.

XPC5R

VBP inculdes new inner sleeves and the front upper a-arm 'crossbar'. Really simplifies the install as you do not need to harvest the old sleeves from the old bushings. More expensive, but worth it.

John Shiels

unanimous VBP

95jersey

OK...I priced out the complete VBP Poly kit and adjustable T1 sway bar links and came up with $515 (give or take).

Now here's where I need to take a poll on everyone's overall value meter.

I am being 100% honest, to say this job would be huge for me. Especially, with my 50+ hour work schedule. The job somewhat intimidates me. So, even if I attempted this myself, I would still need a shop to re-alllign the car at an additional cost. So...doing it myself should cost around $700 with an allignment (at least)?

Now, Phoenix (you know the name) will do the job for me with parts at a total cost of $2000 with tax (give or take). This would include complete install, cornerweighting (via adjustable endlinks), and custom track allignment. The parts cost will remain the same, but they are estimating about 12+ hours for the poly install (for me probably 25 hours), and 8 hours for the cornerweight and allignment. They said this was worse case and on the high side.

I am sure they would set the car up much better than I could with a dealer allignment. What do you guys think about this package? Is it worth the extra $1300, or should I just try it myself? What would you do in a similiar situation?

Keep in mind for $5k, you can get the complete T1 suspension kit installed and alligned.

John Shiels

As I remember you are running stock brake calipers. If I were you and looking to get faster and save money I'd buy some Wilwoods from LGM and do that yourself. Then spend the balance on Phoenix alignment. I think you would be happier for the gain per dollar. You will save money on pads also. I see you going faster all the time and getting some good speeds at Pocono. I think if it was me knowing what I know now about decent brakes I'd plant my money there first. I have to admit I was a brake hold out also. I figured I'm stopping, I'm OK. The cost of pads and the time they lasted was crazy. Wilwoods pay for themselves as we have discussed in the past. Nothing like putting your foot down and stopping the same in the last lap as the first. If you have Wilwoods I wasted a bunch of time. But there's no charge to you Matt
Poly is good but brakes are better for you lap times.

see5

I bought the non VBP bushings and did it myself> Bad move.

First, get the VBP cause they have the hardware.

Pull the control arms off and take them somewhere and have the old bushings pressed out.

Install the polys and put it back together and get it aligned.

This avoids the worst and most frustrating part and will save you big money.

davidfarmer

I've been very happy with VBP as well. You can drill out the old bushings yourself relatively easily.

95jersey

This is some great advice.

I would rather have the brakes as well. My only problem is that my stock bushings have become pretty beat up from 3 years of HPDE. When my car was at the dealer for other work, I could see they were definately deformed. I originally thought, this is a great time to just go T1, but $$$$ as you would think. I could be very happy with a set of Wilwoods, but would it be a bad idea to attempt another season of HPDE on my current bushings? Am I overreacting?

Also, how valueable is cornerweighting to the overall performance of the car? Would this be worth the extra $$$$? I can drive well, but are a novice at proper suspension set up, so help me understand the value of these types of services.

ghoffman

I have installed 3 VBP bushing kits and I have to say that this bushing repalcement job is about the biggest PITA thing you can do. If I ever do it for anybody again, I will charge them a minimum of a $1K labor to do it. The VBP kit is fine, it is just a lot of work.

John Shiels

If they are bad then you need to do them.

Gary $999.99 and lunch do it?

ghoffman

yes and perhaps a good Cabernet!

Bink

How expensive is "good"??

This is a GREAT thread. Thanks to all.
Do the expenses ever stop?......................just kidding!

ghoffman

Rafanelli, Ridge Lytton Springs, Silver Oak, Joel Gott, hell, even $12 Bogle from El Dorado county, CA is great!

dmtnt

I just completed my set. The tool that made it bearable was the ball joint press kit from Harbor Freight. You also need a sawzall with a couple of bimetal blades. I took my time and followed the directions provided by VB&P and it was a smooth but time consuming job. The instructions for them can be found here:

http://www.vbandp.com/pages/vbpInstructions.aspx

Here is the ball joint press tool from Harbor Freight:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=38335

Here are some tips the I think would be helpful:

1. Use the ball joint tool to push the bushings out of the bore a bit before cutting. This reduces the chance of accidentally cutting into the control arm
2. I used some WD-40 and a rag to clean out the bore on the control arm before installing the new bushings
3. I didn't have much luck trying to tap the round end plates onto the lower arms with a hammer as the instructions show. I used a long bolt, nut and some washers, ran it through the arm, bushings, and plates, then used an impact gun to tighten it down and seat the plates.
4. On the rears, I didn't need to cut any of the bushings except one on each of the lower control arms. The rest push out far enough to pull out by hand assuming you have the Harbor Freight ball joint tool or comparable.

Cobra4B

Bushing wise... what all are there to change? I'm assuming upper and lower control arm bushings front and rear and swaybar bushings. I allready have the VBP poly bar bushings. What's so hard about removing the control arms and installing new bushings?

John Shiels

Nothing hard, just time consuming. More time if you are on jackstands and hand tools with no air tools. If you are not doing something else with it, the amount of gain for work is marginal for most people. The harder you run the more you will be pleased with them. Nice if you are doing Harbar camber kit at the same time and shocks. I felt the most improvement on high speed turns. It just felt solid and gave me confidence. I was on the N. course at Pocno, I still remember it. You get a better feed back. I would love to try LGM's bearing setup.

ghoffman

The nice thing is that you do not need as much toe-in on the rear and you can run less static camber. This is due to less deflection of the bushings. You should do all 16 bushings. The sway bar bushings are not included with the VB&P kit.

95jersey

OK

We'll, I prefer a Chianti vs. the Cab...hell, how does a bottle of Tequilla sound. We'll need one after we are done Happy Saint Patrick's Day!!!! I'll need a drink after I get the bill

We'll, what I have learned is that unless you are willing to do this job yourself, it's about a $1000 job to a good shop. So if Phoenix charges around $800 it's not unreasonable. A lot of money, but not unreasonable.

But no one has answered my question about how value of cornerweighting to the overall performance of the car? From speaking with Joe at Phoenix, they highly recommend cornerweighting the car with the adjustable T1 end links. Has anyone had their car cornerweighted? Has it made a significant difference?