eeagle

[QUOTE=jamie furman;1563213211]
If you haven't heard of Halltech (Jim Hall's) tune and killer bee cai, you need to check it out; he's a forum sponsor/vendor.

RWTD

Here's a video of one of my 11.2 runs:

http://s133.photobucket.com/albums/q...nt=RWTDZ06.flv

Unfortunately, the vehicle to my right (out of the picture) was louder than my car, so you can't really hear anything from mine, save for the 1-2 chirp, hehe.

Redline is stock.

I was shifting at approx. 6800 rpms. I need to more extensively revisit my dyno data to determine the best potential area under the curve. I also should invest in a Raptor shift light.

Okay, wow, I didn't realize! Given your obvious driving skills, I was just expecting you may have already knew a lot about the potential tuning capabilities. Check out www.hptuners.com for more information.

As for before/after, yes sir, if you notice in my 1st post I give the before/after dyno numbers. I tuned the vehicle myself on my own dyno, so there was a *lot* of runs performed to determine the best overall combination of afr and timing. I will say that many won't get very good gains from tuning if they don't do something about the overly sensitive knock sensors from the factory. Most GM vehicles have extremely well tuned knock sensors from the factory, but it seems that GM dropped the ball on them for the C6 Z06.

Hey buddy, I got rid of the yellow '07 LS2 and got this black '08 Z06! VROOM!

Sincerely,

James

jamie furman

James I am even more impressed by your runs after reading about your (tune) as it looks more like driver and less like tune to me! I know why I wasn't aware of a tune for a Z06 before, I was aware of people doing what you did as I stated in my last post that I had read about timing and fuel. When you said (tune) I thought it was like Hypertech or something where you downloaded like 25hp with a proven program, guess not? Not to knock you or anyone esle who has done this but it seems like a lot of time and expense to me for 10hp? Especially since Dyno time is expensive when you can even find one and most people don't own a dyno and can't make unlimited runs not to mention whatever HP Tuner costs? And you say there is an obstacle (knock sensor) that a tuner must also tune around that makes it that much more difficult if they are even capable? I think 10hp on that car cannot be but 2 or 3 hundreths at best in the 1/4 mile so for me I would rather just leave it alone, because your driving will probably improve more than that as you make more passes. Like I said before Excellent Driving and Nice Runs! But I think you probably would of run just as good if you hadn't touched it IMO. If I was you I would put the stock tune back in the car and take that exhaust switch off and go back out to the track, you will probably run the same times or better and be up near the top of the stock fast list.

Darnell

The Hypertech tuning for the C6 Z06 gives a gain of 34 HP & 35TQ.

Adam@Amp'dAutosport.com

where is that stated !

RWTD

No it does not, not given a realistic scenario! And if any reasonably experienced tuner looked at their tunes they would laugh. Hypertech, Superchips, you name 'em, are notorious for posting up "best case scenario" results, as well as not always telling the entire truth. I would expect that you work for Hypertech, simply based on doing a search on your other posts.

Tell you what, you send me a Hypertech programmer, and I'll do before/after tests for everyone. I may even buy one and return it just to show everyone the truth of the matter.

FWIW, my car gained more than just "peak" rwhp and rwtq. There was more power gained throughout various portions of the curve. I'll post up the graphs later.

jamie furman

I definately don't believe any tune will give that type of hp gain, and I bet if you dyno a car with that tune before and after I would be surprised if it picked up anything.

Halltech

This is real. No tricks. Done with three engineers from Donaldson Company in attendance in 2006. Testing was done to determine if several of the Donaldson PowerCore filters could bring any power to the Z06. The tuning was done by me, with 92 E10 Fuel from the pump in MN. SAE Correction factor was 1.00 all day long. The bottom line was we dynoed 10 pulls (three with the stock filter) 7 with other variations of their filter, but always the same tune, which, by the way, was the first tune ever done on an LS7. No other mods on the car. Virgin stock when the baseline was done at LG Motorsports in Oct of 05. The car had 6,000 miles which may have accounted for some of the increase, but almost 30 RWHP just from tuning. Runfile 10 was to verify the increase we got (1.5 RWHP) from their best filter, and was the bone stock filter back in the box.

Interesting footnote: GM called me earlier this year asking for a copy of the filter we dynoed that made 478 RWHP for their SS at Milford Proving Grounds. We sent it, and never heard back from GM.

High 11s

James I must thank you and Ranger for all the great information on the traction control system on the C6.

I pride myself in understanding my car reasonably well....considering that I end up taking most of them apart at some point for modifications.

In answer to your question my 08 C6Z is actually my third C6 and I had a C5. Yet I have been drag racing in competative driving mode since 2000, thankfully without incident.

Just re-read the manual and I must say its not clear on the meaning of "traction off".

Interesting on the road course event I just run in the default setting with T/C and A/H both on. Some will say its not fast but generally I am one of the faster cars in the fast run group. Actually tried comp mode but on stock supercars its a little hairy. This year I will be on Hoosiers so it may be different.

In summary thanks to you and Ranger for the information- great forum!!

Just spent the last 15 minutes in the car with all the settings...think its memorized now...."traction off" for the drags.

James

RWTD

Jim, it would be nice if you could post the datalogs from the runs of those dyno graphs, as well as the dates and weather conditions, kind sir. If you don't have them, no biggie. I'm just a data *****, LOL!

Also, one needs to be made more aware of the fact that DYNORUN.003 was made on a different dyno, tho without doing same day testing in the same exact conditions this would be hard to determine the differences between the measurements, however small or large it may be.

Anyway, on to somewhat of a more indepth discussion:

The vast majority may start believing that these vehicles will pick up 20 to 30 rwhp in all conditions. In fact, the type of before/after gains shown in Jim's dyno graph can be possible, especially in hotter weather. However, to be as fair as possible, a multitude of various conditions must be taken into consideration here. Due to the poor placement of the IAT sensor on these vehicles, radiant heat from the radiator and engine greatly affects the accuracy of the temp readings given to the pcm. It is not uncommon to datalog the IAT sensor of the C6 vehicles (LS2, LS3, and Z06) showing temps of 100 to 150 degrees during low speed, extended idling, and continuious stationary periods, both running and not (yes, even with the hood up).

As us tuners know, the factory IAT spark curve is very conservative, and simply modifying that table, along with some tweaks to the ECT spark table, and optimization of the PE table and MAF transfer, will allow for the vehicle to make consistent and repeatable power throughout all environmental conditions, which is honestly the biggest reason one should consider custom tuning in the first place. However, the simple fact is that the C6 Z06 will NOT pick up much more than approx. 10+ rwhp from the factory tune to a custom dyno tune in conditions that would allow for the IAT sensor to show less or not much more than 86 degrees, and when the ECT of the vehicle is less or not much more than 194 degrees. There's also the issue of the overly sensitive knock sensors, but that's another story to discuss in a different post.

I've attached the screenshots below of the factory C6 Z06 IAT and ECT spark tables, as well as my dynograph showing the difference between the stock tune and my custom dyno tune. First, a few notes:

- The conditions were ideal the day of my dyno tuning (10/13/2007). IAT temps were not showing any higher than 84 to 86 degrees during the two runs shown. ECT temps were kept to not any higher than 194 to 199 degrees.
- The gains below 85 mph were due to pulling the exhaust fuse. Additional spark didn't make any differences in this area.
- The vehicle made more power at approx. 12.5 to 12.7 than it did attempting to run it leaner or richer. A brand new wideband sensor was used, and it was installed pre-cat (not a tailpipe sniffer).







Here's also a graph showing the difference between the stock filter and without a filter (same tune was used, as was same run conditions). As can be seen, the factory filter is pretty damn good right out of the box.



Regards,

James

427CPE

isn't that what the stock z runs?

RWTD

I've had a LOT of fun tonight watching this video over and over. My hat goes off to my good buddy Dylan (StangRacing) for the work he put into making this video. It is literally AWESOME!

http://s133.photobucket.com/albums/q...=RWTDZ06PC.flv

P.s. Sorry for the dorky half-helmet. I couldn't find my full face helmet (I'm sure one of my needy friends has it, ha!). It is a Harley helmet, tho, if that makes up for it, LOL!

Regards,

James

jamie furman

James nice explanation! I think that is the most informative explanation I have seen for dyno tuning and also why it is important if you are considering a tune for your car that you have a knowledgeable tuner that is up to date with all aspects of the car as well as a dyno to confirm changes and not just before and after. To me it confirms even more so why (I personally) would have no faith in a plug and play tune.
Good write up!

J HEBERT

Killer passes James! PM me b4 u head out to hub city again, maybe a couple Zs will be there and we can we can discuss tuning over a kangaroo burger or hot roasted nuts from the old man in the back of a pick-up As u know, that little no-where track is worth the drive...would like to see your car w/ the clutch and some sticky rubber

dgdoc

For a car that is bone stock, I can think of no reason why a canned tune wont be effective.

Of course this assumes:
1. The tuner knows what they are doing and has provided a tune for your specific application.
2. The opportunity for improvement exists. In other words, things from the factory are not already optimized for your application. Some cars have more "opportunity" than other cars.
For example, at WOT, some cars have the A/F very rich from the factory and leaning them out a bit will make more HP.

As has been mentioned, the factory tune is considered "safe" and as such, they do leave some HP on the table. A good tuner can swing the balance a little more toward power without having to take into consideration all of the factors that GM must look at.

Of course for those folks who are very knowledgeable about tuning and have access to a dyno, I would imagine there is quite a bit of satisfaction that comes from tweaking the factory tune. Have a lot of respect from the folks that understand the multitude of factors involved and put the time into it.

Darnell

http://www.hypertech.com/get_dynocha...1432483&tp=pdf

Darnell

James,
Yes it does, and how can you even say that it doesn't when you’ve never tested it?
Anyway since you now seem interested in testing Hypertech’s C6 Z06 tuning how about instead of me sending you a Max Energy or a HyperPAC, I just invite you to come to Memphis and visit Hypertech. I’ll get a stock C6 Z06 in here and we can dyno it with your tune and Hypertech’s tune and see how the numbers really compare. If your tune for a stock C6 Z06 makes more power than Hypertech’s I’ll take you to dinner, but if Hypertech’s tune makes more power then you can buy the BBQ

Darnell

Here is a screen capture from WinPep, and incase you're wondering the correction factor on the base line run was 1.03 and it was only 1.00 on the Hypertech tuning run. As you can see the gains are made throughout the curve. Also James I'm not trying to say that you're a bad tuner or that you don't know what you're doing. I just stated how much power Hypertech was able to gain from just a tune on a stock C6 Z06.

RWTD

Darnell, I've already explained the reasoning for the type of gains that you're showing. Please see my post #30 again:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...9&postcount=30

It's the *exact* same reasoning why the GT500 gains massive amounts of power with a tune when in non-optimal environmental conditions, yet also why it doesn't pick up drastic differences when in with optimal environmental conditions (i.e. I can get 40 to 50+ rwhp out of a GT500 by tuning them in the summer, versus only approx. 15 to 20 rwhp by tuning them in the winter - on basically the exact same tune). So just simply insinuating, however subtle it may be, that an aftermarket tune will ALWAYS pick up the same power is simply false and misleading! I could easily replicate what Hypertech is doing on the dyno, and so could any other tuner for that matter.

As for meeting up, Mobile is always open, too! Seriously tho, send me one of your programmers, and we'll use my bone stock Z06 to compare it with. If you think that I wouldn't be capable of providing a fair and balanced report, think again. I'll video tape the ENTIRE process, close up, to prove that a specific tune is going into the vehicle. Furthermore, I'll gladly put up dyno data, data logs, etc.

P.s. You should use SAE, which is the industry standard, even for manufacturers.

Regards,

James

jamie furman

Doc the problem I have with a canned tune is that a canned tune is assuming all cars have the same parameters in the factory tune, if there are any variences in the factory tune from the car the program was designed from it could have a negative or adverse affect on the cars performance IMO. I don't think if you took 3 cars to the dyno and did before and afters, the gain or loss would not be the exact same on all three cars, and if that is the case?, a canned tune would not be the way to go. I have read on this forum where a canned tune was used and they actually lost hp? Over the years I have seen many claims of hp gains, and see guys put them in their camaros and mustangs and the cars don't run any better? And if there was gain it was so minute it was neglidgable at best! The one exception I have seen for canned tunes is turbos and they do make BIG differences on those!