300*F Engine oil at track day...need some advice.
03-28-2007, 11:43 AM
#21
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Supplemental cooling keeps the tranny steady at 252*F. I am in the process of upgrading my radiators. My ECT was hitting around 245*F.
03-28-2007, 12:09 PM
#22
Team Owner
Member Since: Apr 2001
Location: Overwhelmed as one would be, placed in my position.... DFW, TX
Posts: 36,451
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
St. Jude Donor '05
I run my LT4 to 285 degrees every session. Depending on the track, I will hit 300. But it depends on the track and the RPM range I'm using.
I brought all the components for the oil cooler due to all this internet hype, but never installed them. I started doing some research, & I think GM engineering and Mobil1 got this one figured out.
Also seems the winning T1 driver for the past few years decided to save the ~20lbs.
I brought all the components for the oil cooler due to all this internet hype, but never installed them. I started doing some research, & I think GM engineering and Mobil1 got this one figured out.
Also seems the winning T1 driver for the past few years decided to save the ~20lbs.
03-28-2007, 02:49 PM
#23
Team Owner
I run my LT4 to 285 degrees every session. Depending on the track, I will hit 300. But it depends on the track and the RPM range I'm using.
I brought all the components for the oil cooler due to all this internet hype, but never installed them. I started doing some research, & I think GM engineering and Mobil1 got this one figured out.
Also seems the winning T1 driver for the past few years decided to save the ~20lbs.
I brought all the components for the oil cooler due to all this internet hype, but never installed them. I started doing some research, & I think GM engineering and Mobil1 got this one figured out.
Also seems the winning T1 driver for the past few years decided to save the ~20lbs.
Race cars use oil coolers ballast. Then take your car and dyno it, then run it to 300 degrees and dyno it and see how much power you have lost. My car used to feel so flat in the second half of a session. Then I couldn't check the oil without gloves the dipstick would burn you. Now I come in and pull the dipstick with no gloves and it amkes the same power the entire run. I even put a large cooler on the power steering.
Last edited by John Shiels; 03-28-2007 at 03:01 PM.
03-28-2007, 09:52 PM
#24
Safety Car
I have the LT1 oil cooler adaptor, and oil cooler lines from a 96 caprice cop car. I was going to adapt it to my LT4, but decided otherwise as stated above.
All the parts are buried somewhere in my basement. I have to dig them out.
John, you are losing HP with that cooler. Your taking all your hard earned HP and throwing it out the cooler. It takes HP to generate that amount of heat, and your tossing it away.
All the parts are buried somewhere in my basement. I have to dig them out.
John, you are losing HP with that cooler. Your taking all your hard earned HP and throwing it out the cooler. It takes HP to generate that amount of heat, and your tossing it away.
03-29-2007, 06:00 PM
#25
Former Vendor
I have the LT1 oil cooler adaptor, and oil cooler lines from a 96 caprice cop car. I was going to adapt it to my LT4, but decided otherwise as stated above.
All the parts are buried somewhere in my basement. I have to dig them out.
John, you are losing HP with that cooler. Your taking all your hard earned HP and throwing it out the cooler. It takes HP to generate that amount of heat, and your tossing it away.
All the parts are buried somewhere in my basement. I have to dig them out.
John, you are losing HP with that cooler. Your taking all your hard earned HP and throwing it out the cooler. It takes HP to generate that amount of heat, and your tossing it away.
Randy
03-29-2007, 06:15 PM
#26
Safety Car
talk to an SAE engineer.
they'll tell you it takes HP to create all that heat, and your dissipating HP via the cooler.
just something to think about........
I am not a mechanical enginner, but think about it in reverse..
there has to be a fine line to where you are over cooling.
they'll tell you it takes HP to create all that heat, and your dissipating HP via the cooler.
just something to think about........
I am not a mechanical enginner, but think about it in reverse..
there has to be a fine line to where you are over cooling.
03-29-2007, 06:21 PM
#27
Safety Car
Many people "feel" it's a good thing. Just like extended warranty's, it makes them feel good. Sort of like changing il every 3,000 miles cause they don't trust the oil life monitor.
GM considered this issue in the design. I have to believe they actually used sound engineering practices in their design parameters.
I do think I read where Evil Twin posted a GM position paper stating it a cooler was not needed below the 320 degree mark. I can't find it or any of his posts. I think he was banned about a year ago?
Mobil documents it's good for over 400 degrees.
I can already hear the arguments coming my way:
I know a guy who.....
Look at the remains of my....
If you don't believe me.....
Race cars have coolers....... (the C5 that's the topic of this discussion is NOT a race car or run like one. And yeah I know you run hard and so do I for 15 minutes at a time.)
Would really like to see somebody produce just one technical analysis/paper or engineering review supporting their "belief" for the need in a C5 Corvette.
Rick
03-29-2007, 06:39 PM
#28
Safety Car
I went to bowling green 3 years ago. very informative tour.
GM runs every vette motor at WOT for 30 minutes before leaving the factory, and the tour guide said they never explode.
And the cars with automatic transmissions, they drive those forward and throw them in reverse to test them. They are designed to withstand a certain amount of abuse.
Not to worry, John will post his photo's of melted metal next year, and the year after that
GM runs every vette motor at WOT for 30 minutes before leaving the factory, and the tour guide said they never explode.
And the cars with automatic transmissions, they drive those forward and throw them in reverse to test them. They are designed to withstand a certain amount of abuse.
Not to worry, John will post his photo's of melted metal next year, and the year after that
03-29-2007, 06:42 PM
#29
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
I went to bowling green 3 years ago. very informative tour.
GM runs every vette motor at WOT for 30 minutes before leaving the factory, and the tour guide said they never explode.
And the cars with automatic transmissions, they drive those forward and throw them in reverse to test them. They are designed to withstand a certain amount of abuse.
Not to worry, John will post his photo's of melted metal next year, and the year after that
GM runs every vette motor at WOT for 30 minutes before leaving the factory, and the tour guide said they never explode.
And the cars with automatic transmissions, they drive those forward and throw them in reverse to test them. They are designed to withstand a certain amount of abuse.
Not to worry, John will post his photo's of melted metal next year, and the year after that
03-29-2007, 06:48 PM
#30
Former Vendor
I'm not a engineer either so without the proper school, I guess no one would take my position as fact anyways.
Back when I was about 12-13 I personally disassembled 45 LT1 motors in a summer. Just think sence then how many other Corvette motors I have tore down, cleaned, washed, honed, valve jobs, file rings, polish cranks, rebuilt rods, intake building, decked. But what the hell would I know either, I have only read about 15 books on engines, but don't have a degree.
This whole GM design crap doesn't work for me at all. GM makes a good car that most people can enjoy. They sell cars, and way too many things go into that. To say "GM did it or didn't do it for this reason"
Randy
Back when I was about 12-13 I personally disassembled 45 LT1 motors in a summer. Just think sence then how many other Corvette motors I have tore down, cleaned, washed, honed, valve jobs, file rings, polish cranks, rebuilt rods, intake building, decked. But what the hell would I know either, I have only read about 15 books on engines, but don't have a degree.
This whole GM design crap doesn't work for me at all. GM makes a good car that most people can enjoy. They sell cars, and way too many things go into that. To say "GM did it or didn't do it for this reason"
Randy
03-29-2007, 07:07 PM
#31
Safety Car
Randy,
I hear what you're saying. I am a petroleum engineer and my training makes me suspect unless I see a scientific analysis or position on the engineering basis mandating a cooler.
I've been on the fence for a cooler for 1.5 years and truly would like to see a documented, scientific analysis on the C5. One has not been produced. Just lots of he said, she said....
Your experience is impressive, however, what in your experience supports the position that high oil temperature is the culprit related to engine failure in a C5. As I'm very sure you know there are multiple factors to every failure.
At 300 degree oil temp my engine temp is well within acceptable range. I want someone to convince me..... I can handle the truth, provided it's based on sound engineering analysis.
Rick
P.S. I too am waiting for John to post the pic of his metal shavings. I think he has a pager which alerts him whenever the oil temp issue comes up in a post!
I hear what you're saying. I am a petroleum engineer and my training makes me suspect unless I see a scientific analysis or position on the engineering basis mandating a cooler.
I've been on the fence for a cooler for 1.5 years and truly would like to see a documented, scientific analysis on the C5. One has not been produced. Just lots of he said, she said....
Your experience is impressive, however, what in your experience supports the position that high oil temperature is the culprit related to engine failure in a C5. As I'm very sure you know there are multiple factors to every failure.
At 300 degree oil temp my engine temp is well within acceptable range. I want someone to convince me..... I can handle the truth, provided it's based on sound engineering analysis.
Rick
P.S. I too am waiting for John to post the pic of his metal shavings. I think he has a pager which alerts him whenever the oil temp issue comes up in a post!
Last edited by rikhek; 03-29-2007 at 07:10 PM.
03-29-2007, 08:11 PM
#33
Team Owner
I went to bowling green 3 years ago. very informative tour.
GM runs every vette motor at WOT for 30 minutes before leaving the factory, and the tour guide said they never explode.
And the cars with automatic transmissions, they drive those forward and throw them in reverse to test them. They are designed to withstand a certain amount of abuse.
Not to worry, John will post his photo's of melted metal next year, and the year after that
GM runs every vette motor at WOT for 30 minutes before leaving the factory, and the tour guide said they never explode.
And the cars with automatic transmissions, they drive those forward and throw them in reverse to test them. They are designed to withstand a certain amount of abuse.
Not to worry, John will post his photo's of melted metal next year, and the year after that
03-29-2007, 08:17 PM
#34
Team Owner
Randy,
I hear what you're saying. I am a petroleum engineer and my training makes me suspect unless I see a scientific analysis or position on the engineering basis mandating a cooler.
I've been on the fence for a cooler for 1.5 years and truly would like to see a documented, scientific analysis on the C5. One has not been produced. Just lots of he said, she said....
Your experience is impressive, however, what in your experience supports the position that high oil temperature is the culprit related to engine failure in a C5. As I'm very sure you know there are multiple factors to every failure.
At 300 degree oil temp my engine temp is well within acceptable range. I want someone to convince me..... I can handle the truth, provided it's based on sound engineering analysis.
Rick
P.S. I too am waiting for John to post the pic of his metal shavings. I think he has a pager which alerts him whenever the oil temp issue comes up in a post!
I hear what you're saying. I am a petroleum engineer and my training makes me suspect unless I see a scientific analysis or position on the engineering basis mandating a cooler.
I've been on the fence for a cooler for 1.5 years and truly would like to see a documented, scientific analysis on the C5. One has not been produced. Just lots of he said, she said....
Your experience is impressive, however, what in your experience supports the position that high oil temperature is the culprit related to engine failure in a C5. As I'm very sure you know there are multiple factors to every failure.
At 300 degree oil temp my engine temp is well within acceptable range. I want someone to convince me..... I can handle the truth, provided it's based on sound engineering analysis.
Rick
P.S. I too am waiting for John to post the pic of his metal shavings. I think he has a pager which alerts him whenever the oil temp issue comes up in a post!
I guess we need to break in a new motor because GM just ran it WOT for 30 minutes? I really want to know that my new car was thrown in reverse to check if it will break. Any idea from the guide how many times that gets done before it's good to go to the dealer?
Last edited by John Shiels; 03-29-2007 at 08:22 PM.
03-29-2007, 08:24 PM
#35
Former Vendor
03-29-2007, 08:25 PM
#36
Team Owner
talk to an SAE engineer.
they'll tell you it takes HP to create all that heat, and your dissipating HP via the cooler.
just something to think about........
I am not a mechanical enginner, but think about it in reverse..
there has to be a fine line to where you are over cooling.
they'll tell you it takes HP to create all that heat, and your dissipating HP via the cooler.
just something to think about........
I am not a mechanical enginner, but think about it in reverse..
there has to be a fine line to where you are over cooling.
03-29-2007, 08:45 PM
#39
Team Owner
no because there is one answer that is true. I base mine on what I have read. There are a ton of more knowledgeable people than me. I made a post on LS1tech we are having a discussion not suing each other so it's OK Larry hates me anyway so it won't matter 
Last edited by John Shiels; 03-29-2007 at 08:58 PM.
03-29-2007, 08:51 PM
#40
Safety Car
even an old timer engine builder couldn't help here. their knowledge is based on dino oil days. find a metalugy guy at a bearing company.
I'm still convinced GM and mobile1 got together here with some big dollar engineering research, the corvette is their flagship car.
My oil analysis always comes back fine. that;s good enough for me.
I'm still convinced GM and mobile1 got together here with some big dollar engineering research, the corvette is their flagship car.
My oil analysis always comes back fine. that;s good enough for me.