SAVE YOUR ENGINE-Melling has weakened the casting on their SB and BB oil pumps
11-19-2006, 11:28 AM
#21
Originally Posted by Slalom4me
I was surprised to find out how reasonable the price was
for the pumps that come with the modified pressure relief
and the pressure balance grooves. Years ago I did my own
work to add these features a few times years ago and I
wish I could have bought ready-to-run pumps back then.
If Melling offers a thicker wall version of their pump,
my guess is that (relative to an engine rebuild) it is
not that much more expensive than the thin wall version.
Beppe has had some hard luck. Even though he may not need
the thickwall pump, if piece of mind can be purchased by
paying an extra $50 or so for the heavy-duty unit, by all
means, do so.
.
for the pumps that come with the modified pressure relief
and the pressure balance grooves. Years ago I did my own
work to add these features a few times years ago and I
wish I could have bought ready-to-run pumps back then.
If Melling offers a thicker wall version of their pump,
my guess is that (relative to an engine rebuild) it is
not that much more expensive than the thin wall version.
Beppe has had some hard luck. Even though he may not need
the thickwall pump, if piece of mind can be purchased by
paying an extra $50 or so for the heavy-duty unit, by all
means, do so.
.
11-19-2006, 11:31 AM
#22
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by 85vet
The racing version is about $20 more and comes w/ a new shaft. I
consider it cheap insurance.
consider it cheap insurance.
My $50 figure was a guess. $20 ??, Why are we even discussing it.
For an engine that is out of the car, pay and sleep well at night.
If the engine is in the car and the o/p stays within the normal
operating range (50-60 PSI max), I still vote not to worry about it.
.
11-19-2006, 01:15 PM
#23
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by lcvette
Jake,
that power is only brief and not sustained as it is a street car with a large turbocharger... the rest of the engine is fairly mild as far as cam and heads go nothing too wild. the power is made with large amounts of boost and a small hit of juice.
Dry sump is out of the question as it will not work with my particular turbosetup.
Need reco's on good wet sump pumps.
Chris
that power is only brief and not sustained as it is a street car with a large turbocharger... the rest of the engine is fairly mild as far as cam and heads go nothing too wild. the power is made with large amounts of boost and a small hit of juice.
Dry sump is out of the question as it will not work with my particular turbosetup.
Need reco's on good wet sump pumps.
Chris
I don't believe he's making 1000 HP, but he's certainly running fast and he may be able to give you some insight on what you may end up facing.
There are a lot of guys on the Forced Induction/Nitrous board that can probably help, too.
Of course, as always, you can do as you choose. Just trying to help.
Jake
11-20-2006, 10:29 AM
#24
Melting Slicks
Originally Posted by Slalom4me
I was surprised to find out how reasonable the price was
for the pumps that come with the modified pressure relief
and the pressure balance grooves. Years ago I did my own
work to add these features a few times years ago and I
wish I could have bought ready-to-run pumps back then.
If Melling offers a thicker wall version of their pump,
my guess is that (relative to an engine rebuild) it is
not that much more expensive than the thin wall version.
Beppe has had some hard luck. Even though he may not need
the thickwall pump, if piece of mind can be purchased by
paying an extra $50 or so for the heavy-duty unit, by all
means, do so.
.
for the pumps that come with the modified pressure relief
and the pressure balance grooves. Years ago I did my own
work to add these features a few times years ago and I
wish I could have bought ready-to-run pumps back then.
If Melling offers a thicker wall version of their pump,
my guess is that (relative to an engine rebuild) it is
not that much more expensive than the thin wall version.
Beppe has had some hard luck. Even though he may not need
the thickwall pump, if piece of mind can be purchased by
paying an extra $50 or so for the heavy-duty unit, by all
means, do so.
.
The only reason I want a Standard stock melling oil pump is dimensional related:
I have to use a Canton Oil Pan with the pickup supplied from Canton.
The right pump to use is a melling M55 (or M55A hi pressure or M55HV hi volume)
I really dont know if a M10555 series can be good.
The pickup distance from the bottom of the pan is so important...
and then I don't know if the Pickup Inlet Diameter of .750" is good for the pickup supplied by Canton...
-Beppe-
11-20-2006, 01:51 PM
#25
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by conv90
The only reason I want a Standard stock melling oil pump is dimensional related:
I have to use a Canton Oil Pan with the pickup supplied from Canton.
The right pump to use is a melling M55 (or M55A Hi Pressure or M55HV Hi Volume)
I really don't know if a M10555 series can be good.
The pickup distance from the bottom of the pan is so important...
and then I don't know if the Pickup Inlet Diameter of .750" is good for the
pickup supplied by Canton...
I have to use a Canton Oil Pan with the pickup supplied from Canton.
The right pump to use is a melling M55 (or M55A Hi Pressure or M55HV Hi Volume)
I really don't know if a M10555 series can be good.
The pickup distance from the bottom of the pan is so important...
and then I don't know if the Pickup Inlet Diameter of .750" is good for the
pickup supplied by Canton...
another continent and not having the same local resources available.
That's partly why I suggested choosing the heavy casting pump.
Canton offers two pickups compatible with 3/4" inlet pumps in a 15-240
RR pan. From their website - Canton Pickups
Road Race #15-240:
For 3/4" dia inlet pickup
- #20-049 (for 3/4" Std Vol pump)
- #20-079 (for 3/4" Hi Vol pump)
Moroso offers many o/p pickup designs. I recall a site where
I saw pages of photos of pickups - but I cannot locate it at the
moment. Here is a listing without photos:
Moroso Pickups
The Moroso listing shows two pickups for circletrack and road race
The 24308 shown here is for a circletrack app (counter-clockwise left turns)
The next photo is supposed to be of a Moroso #24101 but may actually
be a #24170.
I still feel that for stock pressures and RPM usage, the 'thin' casting will
give long life but you have the option of switching if desired. It might
take a bit more work to configure.
.
11-20-2006, 03:27 PM
#26
Originally Posted by conv90
I'm Beppe
The only reason I want a Standard stock melling oil pump is dimensional related:
I have to use a Canton Oil Pan with the pickup supplied from Canton.
The right pump to use is a melling M55 (or M55A hi pressure or M55HV hi volume)
I really dont know if a M10555 series can be good.
The pickup distance from the bottom of the pan is so important...
and then I don't know if the Pickup Inlet Diameter of .750" is good for the pickup supplied by Canton...
-Beppe-
The only reason I want a Standard stock melling oil pump is dimensional related:
I have to use a Canton Oil Pan with the pickup supplied from Canton.
The right pump to use is a melling M55 (or M55A hi pressure or M55HV hi volume)
I really dont know if a M10555 series can be good.
The pickup distance from the bottom of the pan is so important...
and then I don't know if the Pickup Inlet Diameter of .750" is good for the pickup supplied by Canton...
-Beppe-
We can do a little bit of homework to find out. I assume you may have already started. I have the pump in a box at the moment. I bolted it to the rear main cap when I bore guaged the mains after the pour. They are absolutely perfect, by the way less than.0002 difference between them
Perhaps the straightest line hone I have seen yet. Don't worry about the pump. We will figure it out
11-21-2006, 04:38 AM
#27
Melting Slicks
Originally Posted by Pete K
Beppe,
We can do a little bit of homework to find out. I assume you may have already started. I have the pump in a box at the moment. I bolted it to the rear main cap when I bore guaged the mains after the pour. They are absolutely perfect, by the way less than.0002 difference between them Perhaps the straightest line hone I have seen yet.
Don't worry about the pump. We will figure it out
We can do a little bit of homework to find out. I assume you may have already started. I have the pump in a box at the moment. I bolted it to the rear main cap when I bore guaged the mains after the pour. They are absolutely perfect, by the way less than.0002 difference between them
Perhaps the straightest line hone I have seen yet. Don't worry about the pump. We will figure it out
MEL-10553 $71.69
Brand: Melling Engine Parts
Product Line: Melling Performance Oil Pumps
Oil Pump Style: Wet sump
Oil Pump Volume: Standard volume
Oil Pump Pressure: Standard pressure
High Pressure Oil Pump Spring Included: No
Pickup Included: No
Pickup Inlet Diameter: 0.625 in.
Hardened Drive Shaft Recommended: No
Oil Pump Drive Shaft Included: Yes
Dry Sump Pulley Included: No
Dry Sump Belt Included: No
Dry Sump Mounting Brackets Included: No
Hardware Included: No
Gaskets Included: No
Quantity: Sold as a kit.
Oil Pump, Standard Volume, Avanti/Buick/Checker/Chevy/GMC/Pontiac/Studebaker, with Chevy Small Block, Each
The very problem is always the same. dimensional.
the dimension of the pump MUST be the same as the sandard stock replacement M55 series. the location of the hole (where the pickup is inseted in) MUST be the same to allow the use of the Canton Pickup I have.
the pickup I have is the #20-044 Pickup for SM. BL. S.V. Pumps. (and TJwong said me that it's the same for a M55 series as the SV and the HP as the M55A I had..)
The real strange thing is that for 2 identical dimension pumps as the M155 3/4" diam and the M155HV 3/4" diam (both with .750" inlet pickup), Canton has 2 DIFFERENTS Pickups (as Slalom4me said).
-Beppe-
Last edited by conv90; 11-21-2006 at 04:42 AM.
11-21-2006, 08:58 AM
#28
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by conv90
The pickup I have is the #20-044 Pickup for SM. BL. S.V. Pumps.
(and TJwong said me that it's the same for a M55 series as the SV
[ie: Std Volume] and the HP [ie: Std Volume with high pressure spring]
as the M55A I had..)
The real strange thing is that for 2 identical dimension pumps as the
M155 3/4" diam [ie: Std Volume] and the M155HV 3/4" diam
[ie: High Volume] (both with .750" inlet pickup), Canton has
2 DIFFERENT Pickups (as Slalom4me said).
(and TJwong said me that it's the same for a M55 series as the SV
[ie: Std Volume] and the HP [ie: Std Volume with high pressure spring]
as the M55A I had..)
The real strange thing is that for 2 identical dimension pumps as the
M155 3/4" diam [ie: Std Volume] and the M155HV 3/4" diam
[ie: High Volume] (both with .750" inlet pickup), Canton has
2 DIFFERENT Pickups (as Slalom4me said).
The key here is the difference between an SV and a HV pump.
I do not KNOW, but I believe that the HV pump is capable of higher
voume because it has taller (longer) gears. This means that the
gear portion of the pump body needs to extend further down.
Consequently the bend of the inlet tube and the mounting tabs (if any)
on the tube need to be positioned differently. Hence different
part numbers for SV and HV pickups.
To put it another way, a SV and a HP pump can probably use the
same pickup because the only difference is the relief spring in the
bypass. However, a HV pump uses longer gears and needs a deeper
pump body, so the HV pickup needs to be shaped differently to
still position the mouth or inlet of the pickup at the same distance
from the bottom of the pan as the SV/HP pickup inlet is positioned.
Clear - like mud?
Everything I've just written is based on experience with BBC pumps.
Someone who knows SBC's needs to confirm that the SBC HV pump has
taller gears.
.
11-21-2006, 09:15 AM
#29
Le Mans Master
In case there is any question, I am not recommending either high
pressure or high volume pumps. (For that matter, I am only discussing
the 3/4" inlet style pump on the basis that it may have the heavier
original-style casting.)
Beppe mentioned the MEL-10553. One thought to speed up the
selection process is to find a vendor with a liberal Returns Policy
and order several pumps at the same time with the understanding
that the best design will be kept and the others will be returned
in 'as new' condition within, say, 15 days.
This way, you get to study all the pumps together at once, side by
side.
The vendor may want to levy a restocking fee or a pump might be
a special order and the vendor may not want to take it back, period.
This is their perogative.
Fortunately, pumps do not cost THAT much money. So even if you
had to keep the extras and use them as christmas tree ornaments,
this will not be a costly experiment.
.
pressure or high volume pumps. (For that matter, I am only discussing
the 3/4" inlet style pump on the basis that it may have the heavier
original-style casting.)
Beppe mentioned the MEL-10553. One thought to speed up the
selection process is to find a vendor with a liberal Returns Policy
and order several pumps at the same time with the understanding
that the best design will be kept and the others will be returned
in 'as new' condition within, say, 15 days.
This way, you get to study all the pumps together at once, side by
side.
The vendor may want to levy a restocking fee or a pump might be
a special order and the vendor may not want to take it back, period.
This is their perogative.
Fortunately, pumps do not cost THAT much money. So even if you
had to keep the extras and use them as christmas tree ornaments,
this will not be a costly experiment.
.
11-21-2006, 09:39 AM
#30
Melting Slicks
Originally Posted by Slalom4me
Beppe,
The key here is the difference between an SV and a HV pump.
I do not KNOW, but I believe that the HV pump is capable of higher
voume because it has taller (longer) gears. This means that the
gear portion of the pump body needs to extend further down.
Consequently the bend of the inlet tube and the mounting tabs (if any)
on the tube need to be positioned differently. Hence different
part numbers for SV and HV pickups.
To put it another way, a SV and a HP pump can probably use the
same pickup because the only difference is the relief spring in the
bypass. However, a HV pump uses longer gears and needs a deeper
pump body, so the HV pickup needs to be shaped differently to
still position the mouth or inlet of the pickup at the same distance
from the bottom of the pan as the SV/HP pickup inlet is positioned.
Clear - like mud?
Everything I've just written is based on experience with BBC pumps.
Someone who knows SBC's needs to confirm that the SBC HV pump has
taller gears.
.
The key here is the difference between an SV and a HV pump.
I do not KNOW, but I believe that the HV pump is capable of higher
voume because it has taller (longer) gears. This means that the
gear portion of the pump body needs to extend further down.
Consequently the bend of the inlet tube and the mounting tabs (if any)
on the tube need to be positioned differently. Hence different
part numbers for SV and HV pickups.
To put it another way, a SV and a HP pump can probably use the
same pickup because the only difference is the relief spring in the
bypass. However, a HV pump uses longer gears and needs a deeper
pump body, so the HV pickup needs to be shaped differently to
still position the mouth or inlet of the pickup at the same distance
from the bottom of the pan as the SV/HP pickup inlet is positioned.
Clear - like mud?
Everything I've just written is based on experience with BBC pumps.
Someone who knows SBC's needs to confirm that the SBC HV pump has
taller gears.
.
In effect I used with the Cnaton pan the M55A that is SV and HP ...but it uses a different spring ...
Fantastic Slalom4me!
I'll ask to Pete to see differents oil pumps that are identical (dimensional) as the M55 SV that I liked to use.
11-21-2006, 11:10 AM
#31
Le Mans Master
From:
Moroso oil pumps
.
Moroso oil pumps
Originally Posted by Doug@MorosoPerformance
We are aware of the design change of the standard Melling M55 pump
and do not use it. Our pumps are a Melling select series which are a
better casting and are all around of a higher quality. We do have
several billet pumps for extreme needs. www.moroso.com
and do not use it. Our pumps are a Melling select series which are a
better casting and are all around of a higher quality. We do have
several billet pumps for extreme needs. www.moroso.com
11-22-2006, 09:30 PM
#32
Heel & Toe
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Sory Guys.
Here are the links. I don't know what happened.
http://forums.godragracing.com/viewt...095&highlight=
This is also a good read.It tells about how they weakened the BB pump and about how one fellow broke his new Melling SB "SELECT" oil pump.
http://drr.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/t...2/m/8711073162
Here are the links. I don't know what happened.
http://forums.godragracing.com/viewt...095&highlight=
This is also a good read.It tells about how they weakened the BB pump and about how one fellow broke his new Melling SB "SELECT" oil pump.
http://drr.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/t...2/m/8711073162
Last edited by crashgordon; 11-22-2006 at 09:40 PM.
11-23-2006, 06:56 PM
#33
Heel & Toe
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Also I was just reading that Dynagear is a good pump.Then I read on another board that the Dynagear pumps are made by Melling.
There is also another report that said the TRW and Speed Pro pumps are made by Melling also.
Does that mean that all of the pumps made by them are the thinner castings? With only the "Select" line having the original thick casting?
Right now I'm kinda hate'n Melling.
There is also another report that said the TRW and Speed Pro pumps are made by Melling also.
Does that mean that all of the pumps made by them are the thinner castings? With only the "Select" line having the original thick casting?
Right now I'm kinda hate'n Melling.
11-23-2006, 08:19 PM
#34
Burning Brakes
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Wow! Those links were really informative! Did anybody notice how Melling themselves warns the buyer that for performance applications they should use Melling's Performance M pump,which ,according to the guy on the link,APPEARS TO BE IDENTICAL to their M55! Sounds less than Honest.
11-23-2006, 11:12 PM
#35
Le Mans Master
How is it that in one hundred + posts, across five + forums
no one has yet posted a single photo, much less a photo of
a good pump beside a bad pump?
Does anyone have one of the new thin castings? How about
photos of a Melling and a Moroso.
I can take images of an OEM L98 pump. I replaced it with a
Moroso 22100 oil pump last spring. Here's the best I can
offer of the Moroso - doesn't really help.
.
no one has yet posted a single photo, much less a photo of
a good pump beside a bad pump?
Does anyone have one of the new thin castings? How about
photos of a Melling and a Moroso.
I can take images of an OEM L98 pump. I replaced it with a
Moroso 22100 oil pump last spring. Here's the best I can
offer of the Moroso - doesn't really help.
.
11-24-2006, 12:06 AM
#36
Le Mans Master
Moroso 22100
Here are key comments from the GoDragRacing link
Here are key comments from the GoDragRacing link
Originally Posted by ed hess
as an example of how much thinner the new m55 pumps are
- measuring the cross section where it broke
new style pump 0.80 inch
old style pump 1.25 inch
I can tell you when viewing the top side (looking down
at shaft and mounting flange) the weaker casting has
2 different levels on it.
Another way to tell the weaker casting is when viewing
the side of the pump with USA on it. Above the USA marking,
you will see a rectangular shape in the casting that
measures 1.125 x .375 roughly.
melling told me the replacement for the new design m55a is 10553.
- measuring the cross section where it broke
new style pump 0.80 inch
old style pump 1.25 inch
I can tell you when viewing the top side (looking down
at shaft and mounting flange) the weaker casting has
2 different levels on it.
Another way to tell the weaker casting is when viewing
the side of the pump with USA on it. Above the USA marking,
you will see a rectangular shape in the casting that
measures 1.125 x .375 roughly.
melling told me the replacement for the new design m55a is 10553.
11-24-2006, 03:29 AM
#37
Heel & Toe
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I have received reports from two engine builders that indeed they have received several of the Moroso 22100 Blueprinted pumps with the thinner casting.So watch out if you have one of those pumps also.
And here is another picture.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b2...SBOilPumps.jpg
And here is another picture.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b2...SBOilPumps.jpg
Last edited by crashgordon; 11-24-2006 at 12:19 PM.
11-24-2006, 09:06 AM
#38
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by crashgordon
I have received reports from two engine builders that indeed they have
received several of the Moroso 22100 Blueprinted pumps with the
thinner casting.So watch out if you have one of those pumps also.
And here is another picture.I can't post it, but here is a link.
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152220
received several of the Moroso 22100 Blueprinted pumps with the
thinner casting.So watch out if you have one of those pumps also.
And here is another picture.I can't post it, but here is a link.
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152220
I looked back and found additional photos taken during my pump
swap.
As in GOSFAST's photo, the L98 and the 22100 have different
cross-sections near the boss for the mounting bolt. On the Moroso
(Melling) 22100, the outer diameter of the bolt seat is smaller. The
width of the adjacent machining mark on the leg is narrower than on
the OEM L98 pump.
Another consideration is the difference between the outlet side
of the mounting flange of my 22100 and that of the pump pictured
at Moroso. The picture at Moroso shows a cavity (as does Mellings
picture of the 10553) while mine has a flat surface. The top of the
casting looks wider on their pictures between the pump shaft and
the mounting bolt hole.
. 
.
11-24-2006, 12:12 PM
#39
Heel & Toe
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I hate to say this but if you compare to GOFAST's picture and the pictures you gave of your 22100... It looks like your 22100 has the thinner casting.
Look at the shoulderd mounting pad that the bolt tightens down on to what GOFAST showed...Thinner.
Look at the area that sits against the block, below that mounting pad,...thinner
Look at the shoulderd mounting pad that the bolt tightens down on to what GOFAST showed...Thinner.
Look at the area that sits against the block, below that mounting pad,...thinner
Last edited by crashgordon; 11-24-2006 at 12:37 PM.
11-24-2006, 12:45 PM
#40
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by crashgordon
I hate to say this but if you compare to GOFAST's picture and
the pictures you gave of your 22100... It looks like your
22100 has the thinner casting.
Look at the shoulderd mounting pad that the bolt tightens down on to
what GOFAST showed...Thinner.
Look at the area that sits against the block, below that mounting
pad,...thinner
the pictures you gave of your 22100... It looks like your
22100 has the thinner casting.
Look at the shoulderd mounting pad that the bolt tightens down on to
what GOFAST showed...Thinner.
Look at the area that sits against the block, below that mounting
pad,...thinner
Originally Posted by Slalom4me
On the Moroso (Melling) 22100, the outer diameter of the bolt seat is
smaller. The width of the adjacent machining mark on the leg is
narrower than on the OEM L98 pump.
smaller. The width of the adjacent machining mark on the leg is
narrower than on the OEM L98 pump.
questions over in the Moroso thread. (I am aware of the Moroso being
based on the Melling).
.