drrichie

(tuning) In general none of these companies (This includes all other CF vendors)can give me a straight answer to a straight question. All have great reputations, lots of satisfied customers and looking back at previous posts offer little help. Given the fact I have purchased other items from both of my top two choices and have no problem doing so again I'm just not satisfied putting down $500 (btw seems to be the overall standard) and not really knowing if I got the best deal or not. Halltech tells more than most, while another disputes Dynos as having any practical or reliable use. One thing is common among all vendors is that they all claim their bench tune is better than their competitors. To me -if you are just changing stock parameters (factory safe) to the best performance parameters than what could be the difference? If someone knows better, please let me know. As a reminder the topic is "Bench or laptop programing NOT dyno/or road tuning."

MVGVL8N

All I can say is I am very satisfied with the programming done by Jim Hall. I went with the LS2edit program deal and have excellent results both with the service provided by Jim Hall as well as the product. I can/t compare to any other vendors because I haven't any experience with others.

C5 Frank

I can not say anything about any of the Vette vendors as I have yet to deal with them. BUT.. I can tell you on my Mustang I have had a few different people play with the tune over the years. I would say that each tuner has their own tricks for power and drivability. I found with my Mustang once I got one tuner to get it the best he could all around... I had someone else play with it. Every different tuner added something to my car. Cost me more, but in the end I got it right.
So in summation, there is going to be a difference in each individual tuners tune IMO.

drrichie

I'm getting to believe in reality there is no way of knowing.
I will settle for a better understanding.

BRIAN60x

I have Jim Hall's tune and am very happy. I know that is not your question so here it goes to the best of my knowledge. The tuners I have talked to say that the dyno tune has its disadvantages because they can not duplicate the airflow through the front of the car. I had a tuner say he wanted to road tune my car. When I asked what that intailed he said he would take the car out on the road and basically do dyno pulls. I said where are you gonna have the room to do that. He said on the highway. Thats pretty scary. In what gear? 2nd to 95? 3rd to 120? Anyway you get the idea.

I talked to Jim Hall and I wanted to drive the car 10 hours to his shop and have him dyno tune it and he said that would be a waste of time. He said that he had tuned quite a few ls7's and had not seen much variance from one to another. He thought I would be completely happy with the email tune. He also offered to dyno tune the car long distance. He said something about putting the car on a dyno and hooking the Ls2 edit to the car. Email him the stock tune, the data from the dyno, and he would make adjustments and email the updated tune for you to load into the car. I dont want to speak for him, but he offered something like that. I didnt talk price because I though I would see how the 1st tune he sent me would work. I think other companies offer something where you send them your computer they tune and send it back. I think its cheaper. I wanted to be able to reload my stock tune myself in 2 minutes if I needed warranty work or something. I would pick a vendor and either do an email tune or a mail order tune, that would be a good starting point. If you choose the email route you will have your own software and you can play with it youself or try a different tuner later. Sorry for the long response.

vettemaster1

i have tuned my c5 with ls1 edit for years....had a great time learning and experimenting.....thats what you are paying for....there are many parameters that can be modified....knowing what the results of changing this , eliminating that is the trick.....
i havent purchased ls7 edit yet as i dont know if i really need any more from my z...i am very happy just the way it is...

i myself used a dyno-jet wide band o2 setup along with ls1 edit and efi live to do my tuning....all on the track/street....i feel real world on the road tuning is superior to a dyno...

no one is gonna tell you their tuning secrets....thats how they make money...info is available on the web...you just need to search/research for tuning forums....heck check the ones on this forum....its full of great info

Halltech

Here are the facts. Dyno tuning is really important when you are interested in getting dyno numbers at the same time as the Wideband
O2 sensor readings. Once the dyno tuner determines that correct WOT air fuel ratio, they're done. They can repeat this same tune, over and over again for future customers, without retuning since these cars are nearly identical, once they are tuned properly. This means that for 99% of the customers we have done our Stage 1 email tuning, we have already done the homework on the dyno and road tuning for you with our Z06.

I did the very first LSEdit tuning back in January of this year, and dialed in the Long Term Fuel trims (which are unimportant in the overall tuning), the WOT or Open Loop air fuel ratios, and the timing, on the dyno, with the GM Tech 2 onboard to watch for knock retard. How many dyno tuners use this tool to dial in the tuning is unknown, but it is critical. I now have 65 Z06 tunes under my belt.

The next step is our fuel specific tuning, that we do on the road over time. We have an onboard WideBand O2 sensor by Innovative Products, that monitors and records the full throttle air fuel ratio for pure gasoline, E-10 (10% ethanol-my favorite) and E5.7 in CA. Each fuel has a different stoichiometric air fuel ratio in closed loop, and a different WOT air fuel ratio. For instance, gasoline is 14.68:1 stoich, ethanol E-10 is 14.02:1. CA cars should be set at 14.4:1. This makes a dramatic difference in the pedal or throttle response. We also change two other areas within the Fuel curves to accomodate the fuel, and have more aggressive timing when using ethanol blends. All this was developed with both the Tech 2 and Wideband O2 sensor onboard over months of custom tuning.

My research and fuel/timing development goes into the email tuning we provide each customer.

I do not think email tuning is appropriate when adding cams and headwork and never with FI. The dyno is the only way to go then.

I also provide custom tuning for the track, where I delete more of the TM parameters, when the customer has beefed up the rear end components.

Does it work? Our customer Vipervetteguy, has our F1 filter, the email tune (done in person at our shop) and LG Headers. The result was 496 RWHP and 471 RWT, and a warrant out for his arrest. You crack me up.

Our Z06 has some top secret intake components onboard, and is making big numbers, which I will reveal later this month. We have two more very useful additions coming, and have just released our street version of the F1P30Z 2-Stage Foam, that has not sacrificed HP or TQ for the better filtration.

The very first tune we did to our car, done in Minnesota in January, shows just how much power can be gleaned from tuning alone. This was our 10th dyno of the day. We had the stock PowerCore filter back in the stock airbox, stock exhaust, stock everything with a 1.00 correction factor for all 10 pulls that day, under controlled temps, with extremely repeatable results. Look at what tuning alone did. (The before pull was done by LG Motorsports in Oct 05 for comparison-This was the best RWHP or 14 pulls when the car was new. The torque was on the low side, but that was due to the extremely fat air fuel ratio as you can see.)



ONE MORE POINT. IF THE CAT OVERTEMP PROTECTION CIRCUITS KICK IN, THE AIR FUEL RATIO WILL DROP TO THE 9:1 to 10:1 air fuel ratio.

Halltech

You must be amazed at the air fuel ratios. Look at the above stock chart. The rollercoaster target PE/RPM Open Loop ratios throw more unburned fuel out the tailpipes than any other Corvette I have ever seen, since the carbuetor and big overlap cams.

outnumbered

Please don't laugh. There, I beat you to it.

What is a email tune?

I thought we had to send out the ECM for a tune.

Thanks,
Dan

BRIAN60x

You purchase the tuning software from Halltech. Then connect your car, download your stock tune, email it to Jim, He emails his tune back to you, and you reload with his tune. Took 45 minutes for me the 1st time, I have done it since in about 3 minutes before taking the car in for warranty work.

outnumbered

So once you download both tunes and they are in memory,you can switch them.
Do you use a Lap top for the downloading?Or does the package come with a device?

Thanks.
Dan

Halltech

Our Stage 1 includes the F1P30Z, now with our 2-Stage Foam and 3/8" cell honeycomb air straightener, Amsoil Foam Oil, the LS2Edit software, hardware, license, tech support from Jim Hall and or Ken Kelly of carputing.com, and our Dyno, Tech 2, and Wideband O2 Sensor developed calibration tuning for the C6Z, which we do by email.

Once you load the LS2Edit software to your laptop or home computer, you simply use the cable provided to upload your stockecm file and email it to me for our programming. We send it back, ready to download to your ECM. The F1P30Z is worth 10 RWHP, the programming between 15 to 18 RWHP depending on other mods. We got 30 RWHP, some have seen 22 to 26 RWHP with our Stage 1. It is $1199.00 for forum members:

http://www.corvettec5.com/store/?pag...11a5a332aa093b

outnumbered

Thanks For the clarification.

Dan

VY427

Can the car still be driven after you upload the stock program to your laptop? Just wondering. TIA

BRIAN60x

Yes, downloading the stock program to your laptop wont affect a thing. Jim will give you specific instructions for loading the new tune.

NWbluez06

I also had jim (halltech) do my tune, I am very happy with what he has done thus far(will continue to work with). I am on this forum quite alot (had Z since last Nov.) looking at mods and the various players and planning my next moves. I like jim's approach, he is very analytical. I have worked with a lot of engineering types, he has that same mind set.
He does his R&D work then puts the product out, and then backs it up.

Jim - looking forward to your next upgrades.

GTB/ZR-1

Does the drivability, throttle response & part-throttle/cruising MPG (hey, I'd like better mileage while loafing if possible) improve w/ your tuning Jim?

I must have been on the low end for the F1 filter gain--just over 5 RWHP.