[Z06] New dyno #'s...even I was shocked!!!
12-05-2005, 10:30 AM
#21
Le Mans Master
Great numbers, Carlos! You most definitely have a strong one. Also, based on checking your car out again at that memorial benefit car show, it's still looking damn good too!
12-05-2005, 10:54 AM
#23
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St. Jude Vendor Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11
Hi Carlos,
I remember your car now. 468rwhp was also amazing on my dyno. I do remember now. (must be the "sometimers" disease).
for those who wonder about the temp reading, here is what happens.
If the air going in the intake path is 50 degrees, you are making raw hp based on 50 degree air. But if your dyno only sees 76 degrees, it is correcting UP instead of down because it thinks that your engine is seeing 76 degrees.
The uncorrected hp on a 50 deg day is always higher than on a 76 deg day, so the dyno computer on a cold day, will correct down to say a 99% or 98% correction factor. but if the dyno doesn't know it is cold, it will not correct for the cold air.
There was one dyno in town that let the hot exhaust gases from the car blow in the direction of the temp sensor box. that would always show higher hp.
Any time the dyno thinks the intake air is hotter than what is actually going in the air filter, it will show a higher hp number.
That is my only complaint about the Dynojet. They should supply a seperate temp probe that gets inserted in the air path to give a more accurate correction factor.
That is the only reason why the ambient temp makes a difference in some numbers from some dyno. If every dynojet could get a remote temp probe then the corrected SAE numbers would all be the same regardless of temp.
Now in the case of a Z06, there is another factor, and that is what the Car's computer does with temp readings. We have seen the timing change from 26 degrees to 16 degrees depending on engine and intake temp. Thus, the dyno readings are all over the map so far.
Sorry for the long response.
Thanks
Lou Gigliotti
I remember your car now. 468rwhp was also amazing on my dyno. I do remember now. (must be the "sometimers" disease).
for those who wonder about the temp reading, here is what happens.
If the air going in the intake path is 50 degrees, you are making raw hp based on 50 degree air. But if your dyno only sees 76 degrees, it is correcting UP instead of down because it thinks that your engine is seeing 76 degrees.
The uncorrected hp on a 50 deg day is always higher than on a 76 deg day, so the dyno computer on a cold day, will correct down to say a 99% or 98% correction factor. but if the dyno doesn't know it is cold, it will not correct for the cold air.
There was one dyno in town that let the hot exhaust gases from the car blow in the direction of the temp sensor box. that would always show higher hp.
Any time the dyno thinks the intake air is hotter than what is actually going in the air filter, it will show a higher hp number.
That is my only complaint about the Dynojet. They should supply a seperate temp probe that gets inserted in the air path to give a more accurate correction factor.
That is the only reason why the ambient temp makes a difference in some numbers from some dyno. If every dynojet could get a remote temp probe then the corrected SAE numbers would all be the same regardless of temp.
Now in the case of a Z06, there is another factor, and that is what the Car's computer does with temp readings. We have seen the timing change from 26 degrees to 16 degrees depending on engine and intake temp. Thus, the dyno readings are all over the map so far.
Sorry for the long response.
Thanks
Lou Gigliotti
12-05-2005, 11:51 AM
#24
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by LG Motorsports
Hi Carlos,
I remember your car now. 468rwhp was also amazing on my dyno. I do remember now. (must be the "sometimers" disease).
for those who wonder about the temp reading, here is what happens.
If the air going in the intake path is 50 degrees, you are making raw hp based on 50 degree air. But if your dyno only sees 76 degrees, it is correcting UP instead of down because it thinks that your engine is seeing 76 degrees.
The uncorrected hp on a 50 deg day is always higher than on a 76 deg day, so the dyno computer on a cold day, will correct down to say a 99% or 98% correction factor. but if the dyno doesn't know it is cold, it will not correct for the cold air.
There was one dyno in town that let the hot exhaust gases from the car blow in the direction of the temp sensor box. that would always show higher hp.
Any time the dyno thinks the intake air is hotter than what is actually going in the air filter, it will show a higher hp number.
That is my only complaint about the Dynojet. They should supply a seperate temp probe that gets inserted in the air path to give a more accurate correction factor.
That is the only reason why the ambient temp makes a difference in some numbers from some dyno. If every dynojet could get a remote temp probe then the corrected SAE numbers would all be the same regardless of temp.
Now in the case of a Z06, there is another factor, and that is what the Car's computer does with temp readings. We have seen the timing change from 26 degrees to 16 degrees depending on engine and intake temp. Thus, the dyno readings are all over the map so far.
Sorry for the long response.
Thanks
Lou Gigliotti
I remember your car now. 468rwhp was also amazing on my dyno. I do remember now. (must be the "sometimers" disease).
for those who wonder about the temp reading, here is what happens.
If the air going in the intake path is 50 degrees, you are making raw hp based on 50 degree air. But if your dyno only sees 76 degrees, it is correcting UP instead of down because it thinks that your engine is seeing 76 degrees.
The uncorrected hp on a 50 deg day is always higher than on a 76 deg day, so the dyno computer on a cold day, will correct down to say a 99% or 98% correction factor. but if the dyno doesn't know it is cold, it will not correct for the cold air.
There was one dyno in town that let the hot exhaust gases from the car blow in the direction of the temp sensor box. that would always show higher hp.
Any time the dyno thinks the intake air is hotter than what is actually going in the air filter, it will show a higher hp number.
That is my only complaint about the Dynojet. They should supply a seperate temp probe that gets inserted in the air path to give a more accurate correction factor.
That is the only reason why the ambient temp makes a difference in some numbers from some dyno. If every dynojet could get a remote temp probe then the corrected SAE numbers would all be the same regardless of temp.
Now in the case of a Z06, there is another factor, and that is what the Car's computer does with temp readings. We have seen the timing change from 26 degrees to 16 degrees depending on engine and intake temp. Thus, the dyno readings are all over the map so far.
Sorry for the long response.
Thanks
Lou Gigliotti
Let your car cool off for a good 30 to 40 minutes if possible then pull it; then wait another 20 minutes before the next pull if you can. Also, stop babying your Z, drive it hard but smart (no red lines) your PCM will stay in what I call...the "party mode". I knew my car made 468 somewhere, I just didn't remember where 
12-06-2005, 11:05 AM
#28
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St. Jude Donor '09
Originally Posted by roushraven
-RR
This pull looks like it was done with the air filter out. The COTP circuit would normally not puke so much fuel, unless the O2 sensors saw a very lean condition at the beginning of the pull, which is indicative of the filter removal. Without the filter, the LT Trims go into lean code territory immediately and pop P0171 and P0174 codes. Our car had those codes stored, just from the same type of dyno pulls, sans the filter, just to see what it would do.
My experience tells me that when the air fuel ratio begins to drop below 12:1, the horsepower usually sinks as well. ie. a 9.8:1 or whatever you car had (It was off the scale) would reflect in horsepower curve.
My issue here is your Z06 didn't care. In defense of this anomoly, I saw this same event on a 2005 Viper SRT at a dyno here in WI. He dynoed stock at around 445 RWHP, but his air fuel ratio killed the pull when it sank to 10:1, but you could see the drop in power on the graph. He returned to the dyno with what he called a "chip" and ran 465 RWHP about a month later.
What's going to happen when you get your car programmed? Headers? Intake?
Tell me you had the stock intake onboard, and I have a hard time with this pull. As cold as the motor must have been, there should not have been the aggressive Cat Over Temp Correction that took place.
I agree with Lou G. that you should validate such an awesome dyno pull at his shop, before it gets any colder. See if the correction factors match and call it a day.
He is correct about the cold weather. I NEVER dyno in cold weather, since I know that the Dynojet correction factors are going to be all over the place. The local dyno here in WI has their Humidistat buried in t box, so that the humidity always shows 20%, even when the outside humidity is 75%! I quit using this shop as a result. Dynojet told me that not servicing the dyno can cause that to happen and a loss of 2 to 3% of the possible power would not show on the correction factor with just that simple miscalculation.
The Perfect Dyno, as I decribed it in another post, just occurred at 21st Century Muscle Cars, where the conditions allowed a 1.00 correction. 73 degree day, 25% humidity, 29.29 baro, and each pull reflected over 463 RWHP.
Go see Lou G. Good Luck, and keep us informed.
12-06-2005, 02:57 PM
#29
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Jim Hall
After looking closely at this dyno, something does not make sense. Aside from the large numbers, how do you explain the air fuel ratio dropping to under 10:1 and the HP and TQ curve remaining perfect? Obviously, the COTP kicked in on the dyno, which means that not only does you car have a problem with the timing going away, but "off the scale" fuel enrichment, which rarely happens on the first pull unless the induction system has been tampered with.
This pull looks like it was done with the air filter out. The COTP circuit would normally not puke so much fuel, unless the O2 sensors saw a very lean condition at the beginning of the pull, which is indicative of the filter removal. Without the filter, the LT Trims go into lean code territory immediately and pop P0171 and P0174 codes. Our car had those codes stored, just from the same type of dyno pulls, sans the filter, just to see what it would do.
My experience tells me that when the air fuel ratio begins to drop below 12:1, the horsepower usually sinks as well. ie. a 9.8:1 or whatever you car had (It was off the scale) would reflect in horsepower curve.
My issue here is your Z06 didn't care. In defense of this anomoly, I saw this same event on a 2005 Viper SRT at a dyno here in WI. He dynoed stock at around 445 RWHP, but his air fuel ratio killed the pull when it sank to 10:1, but you could see the drop in power on the graph. He returned to the dyno with what he called a "chip" and ran 465 RWHP about a month later.
What's going to happen when you get your car programmed? Headers? Intake?
Tell me you had the stock intake onboard, and I have a hard time with this pull. As cold as the motor must have been, there should not have been the aggressive Cat Over Temp Correction that took place.
I agree with Lou G. that you should validate such an awesome dyno pull at his shop, before it gets any colder. See if the correction factors match and call it a day.
He is correct about the cold weather. I NEVER dyno in cold weather, since I know that the Dynojet correction factors are going to be all over the place. The local dyno here in WI has their Humidistat buried in t box, so that the humidity always shows 20%, even when the outside humidity is 75%! I quit using this shop as a result. Dynojet told me that not servicing the dyno can cause that to happen and a loss of 2 to 3% of the possible power would not show on the correction factor with just that simple miscalculation.
The Perfect Dyno, as I decribed it in another post, just occurred at 21st Century Muscle Cars, where the conditions allowed a 1.00 correction. 73 degree day, 25% humidity, 29.29 baro, and each pull reflected over 463 RWHP.
Go see Lou G. Good Luck, and keep us informed.
This pull looks like it was done with the air filter out. The COTP circuit would normally not puke so much fuel, unless the O2 sensors saw a very lean condition at the beginning of the pull, which is indicative of the filter removal. Without the filter, the LT Trims go into lean code territory immediately and pop P0171 and P0174 codes. Our car had those codes stored, just from the same type of dyno pulls, sans the filter, just to see what it would do.
My experience tells me that when the air fuel ratio begins to drop below 12:1, the horsepower usually sinks as well. ie. a 9.8:1 or whatever you car had (It was off the scale) would reflect in horsepower curve.
My issue here is your Z06 didn't care. In defense of this anomoly, I saw this same event on a 2005 Viper SRT at a dyno here in WI. He dynoed stock at around 445 RWHP, but his air fuel ratio killed the pull when it sank to 10:1, but you could see the drop in power on the graph. He returned to the dyno with what he called a "chip" and ran 465 RWHP about a month later.
What's going to happen when you get your car programmed? Headers? Intake?
Tell me you had the stock intake onboard, and I have a hard time with this pull. As cold as the motor must have been, there should not have been the aggressive Cat Over Temp Correction that took place.
I agree with Lou G. that you should validate such an awesome dyno pull at his shop, before it gets any colder. See if the correction factors match and call it a day.
He is correct about the cold weather. I NEVER dyno in cold weather, since I know that the Dynojet correction factors are going to be all over the place. The local dyno here in WI has their Humidistat buried in t box, so that the humidity always shows 20%, even when the outside humidity is 75%! I quit using this shop as a result. Dynojet told me that not servicing the dyno can cause that to happen and a loss of 2 to 3% of the possible power would not show on the correction factor with just that simple miscalculation.
The Perfect Dyno, as I decribed it in another post, just occurred at 21st Century Muscle Cars, where the conditions allowed a 1.00 correction. 73 degree day, 25% humidity, 29.29 baro, and each pull reflected over 463 RWHP.
Go see Lou G. Good Luck, and keep us informed.
Again, I was pushed into posting these numbers by the guys who witness my pulls and my cousin. I usually keep things to myself especially here on the net. From the first minute, I knew that no one was going to believe me, but I don't care.
I sometimes run into some of those non-believers at the track and spank'em. Or, some see my times and leave me alone. If you can or like to, ask around here in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area about my cars. Those who know me and are familiar with my cars, know that I much rather go to the track rather than to defend any claims behind a keyboard. 
I will agree with you Jim, that a/f surprised me too. My car runs like a bat out of hell and there is nothing wrong with the PCM. I used the tech II/Candi and looked for codes and nothing...(no current or stored codes). All I can think is that the PCM/MAF detected cold air and dumped fuel. That is how ALL my corvettes react when cold air hit the maf! In fact, trying running a dry shot on any vehicle...once the maf sees that cold air, it freaking dumps fuel like crazy. I always felt that my car was a freak...since day one. Right out of the gate it was making 460 plus with less than 150 miles on the clock...ask Lou G.
I just checked the weather for Dallas, and it will be much colder this weekend -vs- last weekend...so now what? If your buddy Lou is willing to switch cars with me for a day, I would do it. He can have my car the night before, drive it in that morning let cool off for about 45 minutes or so. Make a pull then let it cool off again for 20 minutes or so and make another pull then see for yourselves. Yes, I am willing to do that since you and some of you guys are calling me BS!
12-06-2005, 11:22 PM
#30
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Quit being so defensve!!!
Originally Posted by Myhardtop
Jim, I will stop by LG's this weekend if time and weather permits. I will say it again, my FILTER was IN. I am not a fan of dyno pulling w/o an air filter since I do not drive around filterless! I have stated this before, from week one, my car was making more power than some others. Case in point, at LG's 3 Z's(red, yellow and Black..mines) were strapped on his dyno, all cars had about the same mileage on the clock. Mines was pulling 460 plus horses and high 420's to 430's torque while the other two were making 443 or so and 417 to 420 torque! Why? beats me! Lou then asked me a few times to tell him about my car...meaning, what's the secret. "I cut a hole in the radiator shroud" for more air. I performed the same task to the Yellow Z but it did not pick up the same power as mines did...Why? beats me again.
Again, I was pushed into posting these numbers by the guys who witness my pulls and my cousin. I usually keep things to myself especially here on the net. From the first minute, I knew that no one was going to believe me, but I don't care. I sometimes run into some of those non-believers at the track and spank'em. Or, some see my times and leave me alone. If you can or like to, ask around here in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area about my cars. Those who know me and are familiar with my cars, know that I much rather go to the track rather than to defend any claims behind a keyboard.
I will agree with you Jim, that a/f surprised me too. My car runs like a bat out of hell and there is nothing wrong with the PCM. I used the tech II/Candi and looked for codes and nothing...(no current or stored codes). All I can think is that the PCM/MAF detected cold air and dumped fuel. That is how ALL my corvettes react when cold air hit the maf! In fact, trying running a dry shot on any vehicle...once the maf sees that cold air, it freaking dumps fuel like crazy. I always felt that my car was a freak...since day one. Right out of the gate it was making 460 plus with less than 150 miles on the clock...ask Lou G.
I just checked the weather for Dallas, and it will be much colder this weekend -vs- last weekend...so now what? If your buddy Lou is willing to switch cars with me for a day, I would do it. He can have my car the night before, drive it in that morning let cool off for about 45 minutes or so. Make a pull then let it cool off again for 20 minutes or so and make another pull then see for yourselves. Yes, I am willing to do that since you and some of you guys are calling me BS!
Again, I was pushed into posting these numbers by the guys who witness my pulls and my cousin. I usually keep things to myself especially here on the net. From the first minute, I knew that no one was going to believe me, but I don't care.
I sometimes run into some of those non-believers at the track and spank'em. Or, some see my times and leave me alone. If you can or like to, ask around here in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area about my cars. Those who know me and are familiar with my cars, know that I much rather go to the track rather than to defend any claims behind a keyboard. I will agree with you Jim, that a/f surprised me too. My car runs like a bat out of hell and there is nothing wrong with the PCM. I used the tech II/Candi and looked for codes and nothing...(no current or stored codes). All I can think is that the PCM/MAF detected cold air and dumped fuel. That is how ALL my corvettes react when cold air hit the maf! In fact, trying running a dry shot on any vehicle...once the maf sees that cold air, it freaking dumps fuel like crazy. I always felt that my car was a freak...since day one. Right out of the gate it was making 460 plus with less than 150 miles on the clock...ask Lou G.
I just checked the weather for Dallas, and it will be much colder this weekend -vs- last weekend...so now what? If your buddy Lou is willing to switch cars with me for a day, I would do it. He can have my car the night before, drive it in that morning let cool off for about 45 minutes or so. Make a pull then let it cool off again for 20 minutes or so and make another pull then see for yourselves. Yes, I am willing to do that since you and some of you guys are calling me BS!
You are way tooooooo sensitive. And please stop being so defensive about this. We are all very happy that you got these numbers. But you have to admit that they are way above normal. No one is accusing anyone of BSing. Just a bunch of car enthusists on line trying to validate this. We are all hoping that your car is as tested making 480ish rwhp STOCK. That would be awesome for all vette lovers like us here. Lou G and Jim H are two of the nicest persons on this forum besides being two of our best resources. You should take advantage of them not being such a STIFF about it.
12-07-2005, 11:10 AM
#31
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by TetraU
Dude:
You are way tooooooo sensitive. And please stop being so defensive about this. We are all very happy that you got these numbers. But you have to admit that they are way above normal. No one is accusing anyone of BSing. Just a bunch of car enthusists on line trying to validate this. We are all hoping that your car is as tested making 480ish rwhp STOCK. That would be awesome for all vette lovers like us here. Lou G and Jim H are two of the nicest persons on this forum besides being two of our best resources. You should take advantage of them not being such a STIFF about it.
You are way tooooooo sensitive. And please stop being so defensive about this. We are all very happy that you got these numbers. But you have to admit that they are way above normal. No one is accusing anyone of BSing. Just a bunch of car enthusists on line trying to validate this. We are all hoping that your car is as tested making 480ish rwhp STOCK. That would be awesome for all vette lovers like us here. Lou G and Jim H are two of the nicest persons on this forum besides being two of our best resources. You should take advantage of them not being such a STIFF about it.
Now, as far as Lou, I left a message, and called his shop and I have not heard back from him. Lou IS and seems like a nice guy. 
12-07-2005, 01:53 PM
#33
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by Paul Vincent
My two cents: Since performance is what the Z06 is all about, why not just track your car and see what times/speeds it gets?
12-07-2005, 04:47 PM
#34
Drifting
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Quikag,
It appears that Myhardtop has hp/tq numbers that are far beyond what GM claims the Z06 produces. Naturally, he's elated.
It appears that Myhardtop has hp/tq numbers that are far beyond what GM claims the Z06 produces. Naturally, he's elated.
Last edited by Paul Vincent; 12-07-2005 at 08:29 PM.
12-07-2005, 05:00 PM
#35
Le Mans Master
Paul,
I apologize if I misread your recommendation to Carlos. I presumed you were basically telling him to quit sitting on his dyno laurels and go run his car at the strip. Basically, I thought it was YOU that had the smart azzed response. Now, I realize it was me.
He had already stated that he was a drag racer, a good one at that, and was planning to track his car at first opportunity. Unfortunately, the tracks are closed down here in DFW this time of year and he won't be able to run his car for a while.
I apologize for the confusion.
I apologize if I misread your recommendation to Carlos. I presumed you were basically telling him to quit sitting on his dyno laurels and go run his car at the strip. Basically, I thought it was YOU that had the smart azzed response. Now, I realize it was me.
He had already stated that he was a drag racer, a good one at that, and was planning to track his car at first opportunity. Unfortunately, the tracks are closed down here in DFW this time of year and he won't be able to run his car for a while.
I apologize for the confusion.
12-07-2005, 05:52 PM
#36
Le Mans Master
I wouldn't be too shocked. If Heads/Cam C5's with 346 motors are putting out almost 440 RWHP, then I sure would expect a 427 with all the tricks to lay down considerably more.
12-07-2005, 08:22 PM
#37
Drifting
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QUIKAG,
I should have made my first post clearer. Reading it from your perspective, I understand your reply. I don't have a Z06 (can't afford one for now), but I've been waiting almost thirty years for the Corvette to have a 427 once again, and now that it does I'm satisfied that others are able to enjoy it and share their experiences.
I should have made my first post clearer. Reading it from your perspective, I understand your reply. I don't have a Z06 (can't afford one for now), but I've been waiting almost thirty years for the Corvette to have a 427 once again, and now that it does I'm satisfied that others are able to enjoy it and share their experiences.
12-07-2005, 08:43 PM
#39
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Originally Posted by Myhardtop
Okay guys, we all know by now that the new 2006 Z is under rated. I stopped at RPM(Real Performance Motorsports) today since the guys came in to work on their cars, and it was a cool day here in Dallas Tx.
I allowed the car to cool off for about 45min, then we strapped her down and made two pulls, here are my results:
Both passes with air filter in place, put big fan in front of grill opening, placed dyno A/F exhaust reader into pipe with flaps and pulled the fuse.
1st pass: 481.2rwhp/455.1rwtq air temp: 76* coolant temp. 196*.
2nd pass: 477rwtq/449.9 air temp: 82*, coolant temp 203*
Both passes had a very fat A/F mixture...10.8 or so!
We're thinking that the PCM picked up on the cold air from the fan and dumped fuel like crazy This thing is beggin' for my dry-shot
Can someone please host my pictures....I can't figure it out
I allowed the car to cool off for about 45min, then we strapped her down and made two pulls, here are my results:
Both passes with air filter in place, put big fan in front of grill opening, placed dyno A/F exhaust reader into pipe with flaps and pulled the fuse.
1st pass: 481.2rwhp/455.1rwtq air temp: 76* coolant temp. 196*.
2nd pass: 477rwtq/449.9 air temp: 82*, coolant temp 203*
Both passes had a very fat A/F mixture...10.8 or so!
We're thinking that the PCM picked up on the cold air from the fan and dumped fuel like crazy This thing is beggin' for my dry-shot Can someone please host my pictures....I can't figure it out
12-07-2005, 08:44 PM
#40
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Originally Posted by Pewtavert
I wouldn't be too shocked. If Heads/Cam C5's with 346 motors are putting out almost 440 RWHP, then I sure would expect a 427 with all the tricks to lay down considerably more.
