People with nitrous need advice
01-19-2005, 04:55 PM
#21
Burning Brakes
I think alot of the corvette audience would be real surprised how tough a little bottle or just a heads/cam package can be on these LS motors. 
Once you take the first Nitrous hit...
Once you take the first Nitrous hit...
01-19-2005, 05:25 PM
#22
Collections Hold
Originally Posted by zoomz
A window switch is not used to stop fuel puddling , its used to turn off the nitrous before hitting the rev limiter so that your not spraying nitrous when your rev limiter turns off the fuel to the car .
The problem i see with a dry system is your hoping the MAF and the computer adjust the injectors fast enough to keep your a/f consistant with a 100 shot and anything over a 100-125 shot dry is asking for trouble because the stock injectors cant keep up.
No matter how well you tune the car your always going to have a lean spike on the initial hit of the dry nitrous system.
Another draw back to the dry kit is the need to tune the car to the nitrous hit for anything over a 100-125 shot (ie, bigger injectors and pcm tune)
With a dry kit you can not have a perfectly tuned n/a car and stab a 150 shot and expect it to have an acceptable a/f .
A wet kit will send fuel into the air intake track but puddling is not normal and is very very rare and is caused by user error not the wet system itself.
I started spraying my 99/a4 at 40k miles and made about 150 1/4 mile passes and loads of street racing before having to upgrade the tranny at 85k miles .
Dry kits work well if you pay the extra money for the other engine upgrades needed .
Wet kits need very little changing of the stock systems so its much cheaper and safer for the engine and your wallet .
The problem i see with a dry system is your hoping the MAF and the computer adjust the injectors fast enough to keep your a/f consistant with a 100 shot and anything over a 100-125 shot dry is asking for trouble because the stock injectors cant keep up.
No matter how well you tune the car your always going to have a lean spike on the initial hit of the dry nitrous system.
Another draw back to the dry kit is the need to tune the car to the nitrous hit for anything over a 100-125 shot (ie, bigger injectors and pcm tune)
With a dry kit you can not have a perfectly tuned n/a car and stab a 150 shot and expect it to have an acceptable a/f .
A wet kit will send fuel into the air intake track but puddling is not normal and is very very rare and is caused by user error not the wet system itself.
I started spraying my 99/a4 at 40k miles and made about 150 1/4 mile passes and loads of street racing before having to upgrade the tranny at 85k miles .
Dry kits work well if you pay the extra money for the other engine upgrades needed .
Wet kits need very little changing of the stock systems so its much cheaper and safer for the engine and your wallet .
More to the point,
on wet if your fuel noid sticks closed it is going to continue to spray n2o and then no way to add additional fuel (your after maf)so you run lean and problems (boom).
This does not happen on dry kits.
Wet kit and fuel noid sticks open, you'll keep pumping fuel even after you stop n20 shot, and fuel puddling can cause top to blow.
This does not happen on Dry.
Wet kit n2o noid sticks closed and now your pumping extra fuel and causing a rich condition that sometimes leads to the dreaded intake/hood removal, just do a search and you'll see this does happen.
This does not happen on Dry.
Wet kit and n2o noid sticks open after run at lower rpm, boom.
This does not happen on 5177 dry with redunant noids.
And also the low pressure bottle problem above points to dry as safer.
I believe Cartex is changing one of their big dog cars over to dry system, so maybe dry will get some respect in the future. I have run mostly wet over the last 20+ years, but I like dry on the ls1/ls6 for reasons stated and more.
01-19-2005, 08:53 PM
#23
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by Robert56
More to the point,
on wet if your fuel noid sticks closed it is going to continue to spray n2o and then no way to add additional fuel (your after maf)so you run lean and problems (boom).
This does not happen on dry kits.
on wet if your fuel noid sticks closed it is going to continue to spray n2o and then no way to add additional fuel (your after maf)so you run lean and problems (boom).
This does not happen on dry kits.
So even if your pump suddenly fails you'll be ok.Another thing about all these solenoids sticking. Most solenoids are good for 5 years. If you are that concerned over them have them inspected every year or two or just go out and by a new set.
01-19-2005, 10:07 PM
#24
Collections Hold
Javery20, your right, it's just examples of what can go wrong and not totally set in stone on every case. That is why most recommend the safety stuff, to help some of these issues.
01-20-2005, 07:14 AM
#25
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by NoLag
Thanks a lot guys can anyone point me in a direction as far as a website that sells these kits.
01-20-2005, 11:22 AM
#26
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by Robert56
More to the point,
on wet if your fuel noid sticks closed it is going to continue to spray n2o and then no way to add additional fuel (your after maf)so you run lean and problems (boom).
This does not happen on dry kits.
on wet if your fuel noid sticks closed it is going to continue to spray n2o and then no way to add additional fuel (your after maf)so you run lean and problems (boom).
This does not happen on dry kits.
Originally Posted by JAvery20
You can solve this problem by getting a fuel safety shut off switch. It comes w/ just about any standard kit upgrade(gen x, etc) and as soon as the fuel pressure drops it shuts the n20 solenoid down. So even if your pump suddenly fails you'll be ok.
Another thing about all these solenoids sticking. Most solenoids are good for 5 years. If you are that concerned over them have them inspected every year or two or just go out and by a new set.
So even if your pump suddenly fails you'll be ok.Another thing about all these solenoids sticking. Most solenoids are good for 5 years. If you are that concerned over them have them inspected every year or two or just go out and by a new set.
The fuel noid introduces a single point of failure that the dry kit does not have. The only way around it would be to run two fuel noids in parallel.
01-20-2005, 12:04 PM
#27
Safety Car
Originally Posted by zoomz
A window switch is not used to stop fuel puddling , its used to turn off the nitrous before hitting the rev limiter so that your not spraying nitrous when your rev limiter turns off the fuel to the car .
The problem i see with a dry system is your hoping the MAF and the computer adjust the injectors fast enough to keep your a/f consistant with a 100 shot and anything over a 100-125 shot dry is asking for trouble because the stock injectors cant keep up.
No matter how well you tune the car your always going to have a lean spike on the initial hit of the dry nitrous system.
Another draw back to the dry kit is the need to tune the car to the nitrous hit for anything over a 100-125 shot (ie, bigger injectors and pcm tune)
With a dry kit you can not have a perfectly tuned n/a car and stab a 150 shot and expect it to have an acceptable a/f .
A wet kit will send fuel into the air intake track but puddling is not normal and is very very rare and is caused by user error not the wet system itself.
I started spraying my 99/a4 at 40k miles and made about 150 1/4 mile passes and loads of street racing before having to upgrade the tranny at 85k miles .
Dry kits work well if you pay the extra money for the other engine upgrades needed .
Wet kits need very little changing of the stock systems so its much cheaper and safer for the engine and your wallet .
The problem i see with a dry system is your hoping the MAF and the computer adjust the injectors fast enough to keep your a/f consistant with a 100 shot and anything over a 100-125 shot dry is asking for trouble because the stock injectors cant keep up.
No matter how well you tune the car your always going to have a lean spike on the initial hit of the dry nitrous system.
Another draw back to the dry kit is the need to tune the car to the nitrous hit for anything over a 100-125 shot (ie, bigger injectors and pcm tune)
With a dry kit you can not have a perfectly tuned n/a car and stab a 150 shot and expect it to have an acceptable a/f .
A wet kit will send fuel into the air intake track but puddling is not normal and is very very rare and is caused by user error not the wet system itself.
I started spraying my 99/a4 at 40k miles and made about 150 1/4 mile passes and loads of street racing before having to upgrade the tranny at 85k miles .
Dry kits work well if you pay the extra money for the other engine upgrades needed .
Wet kits need very little changing of the stock systems so its much cheaper and safer for the engine and your wallet .
01-20-2005, 12:08 PM
#28
Safety Car
I run a dry system currently followed by a wet kit. Nitrous is fun if done right. Just make sure your tuning is dead on.. I backed my 1st stage down to 644rwhp/660rwtq and the wet will be controlled by a rpm progressive controller to keep my tq above 650rwtq all the way to 6800rpm. I have only done test with pump gas so far to see what is safe on pump. The most I have done on pump is 700rwhp dry spraying over 4200rpm. My 644rwhp run was also done on pump, but I sprayed at 3200rpm and 4 degree's of timing reduced with no hint of detonation. I log all my runs on a dynojet and then back them up on a mustang dyno with a 3600lb load. My second stage will receive an additional 4 degree's of timing reduced for a total of 20 degree's WOT timing while I am spraying close to a 300 shot total. Safety is important here. I could probably get away with 100 octane and 4 to 6 degree's of retard, but why chance it. My goal is 800rwhp at 6600rpm and 650rwtq from 3200rpm to 6800rpm. I am trying to create turbo like accel w/out the turbo price. Actually I should be faster than a similar horsepower turbo car because of how I am bringing on the nitrous..
01-20-2005, 01:40 PM
#29
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by bernrex
Damn .. Robert56 had me sold on Dry ,,, now you say I need engine upgrades for it. Which ones are you talking about here?
Over 100-125 a wet kit becomes 'cheaper'. To spray more than that dry becomes fairly expensive but is still 'safer' than wet IMO.
01-20-2005, 02:15 PM
#30
Safety Car
Originally Posted by Vince99FRC
I run a dry system currently followed by a wet kit. Nitrous is fun if done right. Just make sure your tuning is dead on.. I backed my 1st stage down to 644rwhp/660rwtq and the wet will be controlled by a rpm progressive controller to keep my tq above 650rwtq all the way to 6800rpm. I have only done test with pump gas so far to see what is safe on pump. The most I have done on pump is 700rwhp dry spraying over 4200rpm. My 644rwhp run was also done on pump, but I sprayed at 3200rpm and 4 degree's of timing reduced with no hint of detonation. I log all my runs on a dynojet and then back them up on a mustang dyno with a 3600lb load. My second stage will receive an additional 4 degree's of timing reduced for a total of 20 degree's WOT timing while I am spraying close to a 300 shot total. Safety is important here. I could probably get away with 100 octane and 4 to 6 degree's of retard, but why chance it. My goal is 800rwhp at 6600rpm and 650rwtq from 3200rpm to 6800rpm. I am trying to create turbo like accel w/out the turbo price. Actually I should be faster than a similar horsepower turbo car because of how I am bringing on the nitrous..
Sorry ... but this just blows my mind. Are you sure you haven't run a hose into one nose nostril !! How much longer can that engine last ?? "SCOTTY ... You can't push it anymore" .. its gonna blow. 
01-21-2005, 12:43 AM
#31
Collections Hold
Originally Posted by Vince99FRC
I run a dry system currently followed by a wet kit. Nitrous is fun if done right. Just make sure your tuning is dead on.. I backed my 1st stage down to 644rwhp/660rwtq and the wet will be controlled by a rpm progressive controller to keep my tq above 650rwtq all the way to 6800rpm. I have only done test with pump gas so far to see what is safe on pump. The most I have done on pump is 700rwhp dry spraying over 4200rpm. My 644rwhp run was also done on pump, but I sprayed at 3200rpm and 4 degree's of timing reduced with no hint of detonation. I log all my runs on a dynojet and then back them up on a mustang dyno with a 3600lb load. My second stage will receive an additional 4 degree's of timing reduced for a total of 20 degree's WOT timing while I am spraying close to a 300 shot total. Safety is important here. I could probably get away with 100 octane and 4 to 6 degree's of retard, but why chance it. My goal is 800rwhp at 6600rpm and 650rwtq from 3200rpm to 6800rpm. I am trying to create turbo like accel w/out the turbo price. Actually I should be faster than a similar horsepower turbo car because of how I am bringing on the nitrous..
01-21-2005, 12:54 AM
#32
Collections Hold
Originally Posted by bernrex
Damn .. Robert56 had me sold on Dry ,,, now you say I need engine upgrades for it. Which ones are you talking about here?
Bottom line in my opinion is, if a wet or dry kit is set-up properly, you have a greater chance of expensive engine repairs with a n2o mechanical failure using a wet kit. Dry kits are safer by design, but the old saying applies for all of us: "Don't spray if You Can't Pay".