Coil-over (semi) shocks and springs installed
 

Here are the photos of the semi coil-overs installed.
http://www.speeddirect.com/eric/forum/coil-over1.jpg
http://www.speeddirect.com/eric/forum/coil-over2.jpg

They are semi coil-overs because the spring is conical shaped. So it is adjustable like a coil-over but you don't have to modify the frame shock mount because the top of the spring sits in the stock spring pocket. Here is a comparison with the old spring and shock.
https://temp.corvetteforum.net/c3/nova//coil_spring.jpg

The new shock is aluminum and the spring is powder coated silver. The spring is a progressive 350/450#. I just have to reconnect the sway bar and torque everything down before I drive it. I'll let you know how it performs.


EDIT - I finally got the last picture working


[Modified by burners, 9:50 AM 1/24/2003]

Re: Coil-over (semi) shocks and springs installed (burners)
 

So this replaces the stock shock & spring? They're specific to C-3's? :chevy

Re: Coil-over (semi) shocks and springs installed (burners)
 

Looking good :cheers: :cheers:

Re: Coil-over (1970 Stingray)
 

Yes it replaces the stock shock and spring and they are specific to C3's.

Re: Coil-over (burners)
 

let us know how it rides when your odne they look good.nice job :thumbs:

Re: Coil-over (patsnitrovette)
 

Thanks for the compliments. I'm having trouble posting on picture. I'll try it here.
https://temp.corvetteforum.net/c3/nova//coil_spring.jpg

just a test





[Modified by burners, 9:52 AM 1/24/2003]

Re: Coil-over (burners)
 

There must be a limit to the amount of pictures you can post. I can't get my third one to show up (or any third picture, for that matter).
http://www.speeddirect.com/eric/forum/coil%20spring.jpg

Re: Coil-over (semi) shocks and springs installed (burners)
 

Who sells them? Are they adjustable? I'd like to know if there's any difference in ride height.

Re: Coil-over (1970 Stingray)
 

also to lens question,how much adjustability to ride height?

Re: Coil-over (semi) shocks and springs installed (burners)
 

Pretty sweet!

I doubt the ride will change much, unless you had really soft springs or somthing...
But now you can corner balance the car :cheers:

So is the going to be a Speeddirect product?
We know where you work :steering:

Re: Coil-over (patsnitrovette)
 

These are development pieces, they should be ready for sale in a couple of months. Ride height is adjustable. Shock valving isn't adjustable on these but shocks will be available as single or double adjustable valving. At the moment I have the ride height at it's lowest setting. The top of the fender lip is about 3 inches above the tire (the tire is a 265/50R15 which has a diameter of about 26 inches). This is with the stiffest springs available at the moment so ride height should be lower in the future (this car has a particularly light front end due to no A/C and a small block). It can certainly be adjusted as high as anyone would want. I'll post a picture of the ride height as soon as I figure out why I can't post any more pictures in this thread.

Re: Coil-over (427V8)
 

You guessed it Keith. Once a few things are sorted out more spring choices should become available. Especially stiffer springs.

Re: Coil-over (burners)
 

3 inches above the tire sounds like a 4x4 to me.
I'd want to see the ability to be even with the top of the tire +- an inch or so.

most of use are desperately trying to lower our cars...

Re: Coil-over (427V8)
 

I completely agree but like I said, it's developmental, it's the stiffest springs with a fairly light front end and the tires are rather small in diameter. The goal is to get just what you describe. The fender lip should be right over the top of the tire and be able to be lowered another inch. That would give probably 3 or 4 inches of upward adjustment. The tires I have are quite a bit smaller in diameter. A lot of people are running tires that are 1 or 1.5 inches larger in dia. That would reduce the current gap to about 2 inches.

Re: Coil-over (burners)
 

I miss-stated the tire diameter. It is actually 24.25" and the fender lip is 27.25" above the ground. For those running 27" tires that would cut the gap to about 1.5 inches. Even without the suspension settled out the car is an inch lower than before. I'll test drive it today and then get some pictures and more measurements.

Re: Coil-over (semi) shocks and springs installed (burners)
 

Did you upgrade the two bolts that connect the lower shock mount to the A-arm?

I ask because it seems to me that now all the forces from the spring and the shock are now transferred to the A-Arm through those two bolts - as opposed to the original setup wherein the spring transferred its energy to the a-arm pocket and only the shock mounted through those bolts - While not a suspension designer - I would expect a great deal more tensile force being placed on those two bolts and the thin (relatively) stamped sheet they bolt to. If even one of those bolts fail - or pull through - the nose of your car will be on the ground!!!:cry

I would be very interested in this setup when you release it - it looks way cool - how about a setup for the rear? :thumbs:


[Modified by fauxrs, 8:03 AM 1/24/2003]

Re: Coil-over (fauxrs)
 

I agreem the spring cup takes all the weight and cornering loads of the car, the shock mount is only designed to take the forces from the shock, not the weight of the entire car. I've seen coilover setups been done on stock a-arms and they beefed up that section and weded in coil over mounting plates.

Marck

Re: Coil-over (Twin_Turbo)
 

Both of you (fauxrs and Twin_Turbo) are correct. The lower control arm needs to be reinforced in order to handle the new loads placed on it. There will be a steel plate that bolts into the control arm spring cup to help distribute the loads more evenly across the mounting points

Re: Coil-over (burners)
 

That looks like a fantastic idea. The development product looks great.

Regarding the reinforcement of the Aarm mounting place, it sounds like you
are thinking about a plate the sits on top of the A arm and is held in place
with the two mounting bolts. It seems to me that this plate (not welded in)
should be at least 1/4" thick. This may come into play with the installed
body height. The thickness will be amplified as you move outward toward
the wheel ... maybe adding 1/2" to body height.

Perhaps you could offer a welded (reinforced) Aarm as an optional part.
That way, folks wouldn't need to worry about messing up their originals.

Also, you state that these are the stiffest springs that you would employ.
Usually, the softer springs actually have a taller install height, due to the fact
that they must deflect further during normal travel. This may not apply to
the progressive rate springs that you show there - just food for thought.

Good luck getting the wrinkles out. :thumbs:


[Modified by NHvette, 1:19 PM 1/24/2003]

Re: Coil-over (semi) shocks and springs installed (burners)
 

What are the advantages of such a system?
What are the disadvantages?

:confused:

Re: Coil-over (NHvette)
 

Dave, the reinforcement will not affect the ride height in any way. The spring pocket will not be used by the shock or spring, leaving room for a steel plate to be installed. This will not alter or load the spring pocket much different from the stock configuration. I think you are thinking of an arrangement that is different than what I am trying to describe. With regard to the springs, we plan on offering stiffer springs. It's just that they aren't available yet. Part of development is finding the best combination of parts for the intended application. Being able to get the desired ride height is high on the list.

As for advantages and disadvantages, the advantages would be 1.adjustable ride height, 2. Adjustable shock valving (optional), 3. lighter weight (the shock is aluminum and the spring is smaller), 4. rebuildable shocks, 5. cool looks.

Disadvantages? I can't think of any.

Re: Coil-over (burners)
 

You are right - no issues with ride height after adding reinforcement plate.
I think I had a brain cloud that day.
:cheers:

Re: Coil-over (burners)
 

1 How many times do you adjust this?
2 There are a lot of shocks with adjustable valving, are these adjustable for bump, rebound or bump and rebound
3 there are aluminium shocks availav,e but then what is the gain there when you still have those heavy stock calipers, control arms and spindles.

Do you have any idea what this kit is going to kost? I'm asking because if it's say 1000$ I can think of a pair of coil over shocks that will outclass thse by a long shot and still be within that price category. All you need is an upper mount, strehgthening of the A-arm and some welding/fabricating skills.

Not trying to diss the product, just trying to be realistng and put things in perspective.

Marck

Re: Coil-over (semi) shocks and springs installed (burners)
 

Looks good- keep me/us informed as to availability and pricing. :cool:

Re: Coil-over (fauxrs)
 

I totally agree, that was the first thing I recognized about that setup!! :rolleyes:
I think you did a good job, burners, and I always appreciate people like you who try to improove systems.
That being said I have to tell you that the arangement of the bolts is not very wise.
One of our basic rules in mechanical engineering is: Why would you want to let the bolts take forces if you can simply avoid this by putting the beam above the rest of the system?
In your case the static and dynamic forces due to vehicle weight and motion are transfered to the lower A-arm. The lower mounting point of the shock is under the lower A-arm, which means that the two bolts have to take all the load, because they transfere the forces to the lower A-arm above.
Try to locate the lower shockmount ABOVE the original shock mount on the A-arm, so that the lower new shockmount is able to transfere the forces to the A-arm directly. Of course you´ll need bolts to secure the system, but the pressure which builds up while compressing the spring would be directly transfered to the A.arm.
I hope my explanation wasn´t too complicated.
https://temp.corvetteforum.net/c3/ma...coil-over2.jpg
Try to do so and beef up the upper section of the lower A.arm where the lower shock mount is attached to and I´d say this is a good system!



[Modified by MARKUS_P, 12:35 AM 1/29/2003]

Re: Coil-over (MARKUS_P)
 

Do you have a guesstimate on the price yet????

Re: Coil-over (semi) shocks and springs installed (burners)
 

Been here done this. Check out Superiorspindles out of Los Angeles. They have bolt in coilover setups for Chevy Muscle cars and with the pieces they sell, you can adopt to a Vette. I like your tapered coil spring idea so the lower arm spring bucket wouldn't need to be ground out for clearance. I run 800lb. springs in the front so I had to beef up the lower A-arm by welding the plate into the bucket and then gusseting and reinforcing the top shock mount and am using KONI 3011's. Also I have welded the front sway bar mountings to a higher standard than the factory along with the entire frame. Superior isn't planning on a Vette kit so your's will fill that void. Next I am going to try to prototype a rear setup by fabricating my own lower shock bracket and relocating the top because the rear can be basically straight up and down because the rear is supposed to follow the front ends lead. :cheers: Love the engineering as much as the actual driving.

Re: Coil-over (TCracingCA)
 

By the way Burners, what's the compressed and extended lengths of the shocks you use???

Marck

Re: Coil-over (MARKUS_P)
 

Markus, speaking engineer to engineer I would agree that the ideal configuration would be to position the cross bar above the spring pocket so the fasteners don't carry the loads. A clean sheet design would be able to accomplish this but we have to work within the boundaries of the existing hardware and design of the stock Corvette suspension. Placing the cross bar above the spring pocket won't work without modifying the a-arm and changing the compressed length of the shock. The a-arm would have to be modified because the thread bosses for the shock mounts won't allow the cross bar to sit flat on top of the spring pocket. We are trying to avoid permanently modifying the car by adapting to existing mounting locations. Consider that a grade 8 5/16" dia fastener has a proof strength of 9200 lbs and an ultimate strength of 11,500 lbs. So it would require over 23,000 lbs of force to cause the fasteners to fail.

Marck, I will get you the extended and compressed lengths of the shock as soon as I can.

There will be options to buy shocks that are adjustable in both compression and rebound or just in rebound.

Ball park pricing for the package of 2 springs and 2 shocks will range from $550 to $1000 depending on which shocks are chosen.

Re: Coil-over (burners)
 

HAL makes a similar kit for almost all the chevy cars and they are available at summit for less than $500. They don't list a vette, but there isn't much difference between our cars and most other chevys so I don't know why something couldnt be put together. Those HAL shocks are nice too.

If your kit is price competitive, I would consider it as it is already vette specific.

Chris

Re: Coil-over (71roadster)
 

HAL does not make a coil over kit for Corvettes and I don't know why. There are some differences from a standard Chevy, especially in the mount. If you have some fabrication skills then you should be able to sort something out. We are working on this so others don't have to figure it out.

Marck, the shocks we are using have and extended length of 16.5" and a compressed length of 11.5" with a stroke of 5". As for good shocks or better shocks, I would put these up against any shock out there with the exception of Penske's. These shocks have a huge amount of racing experience behind them. They are on par with Koni or Bilstein.

Re: Coil-over (burners)
 

I'm not talking about your off the shelff Koni adjustables (classics), I'm talking about the 8212 series of schocks, they are about as serious as you can get (with the exception of the newer 2817 series). They are previous CART/F1 shocks.

Marck

Re: Coil-over (Twin_Turbo)
 

The more modern and expensive Koni models are great if you also have the $30,000 engine, the Brembo, wilwood or whatever Brake conversions at several thousand dollars, Heim Joints, Borgeson Joints, Spherical Joints, etc. instead of cheap poly and rubber, to match the $1000 a piece shocks. Simple fact is that once you have found your setup, you rarely tune the shocks. The exception would be driving on the street then tune to a predetermined setup for a specific type of track event. If you are out there at the event tuning still, then you are probably "losing" and hunting and pecking for some magic. The Classic Koni's are reliable known and are a fine balance for a car with dual purpose. If you are some professional racer then you probably wouldn't be on here exchanging conversation about front spring rates in the 400lb range. which is a very nice comfortable pot hole easing setting so you don't wear out the driving pleasure associated with some comfort instead of opting for ultimate handling where you wish you had your kidney belt on and/or recognize the fact that you will have to visit the dentist because of loose dental work. The secret to handling success is finding the setup for your driving style not writing big checks to impress us with the latest and greatest super part. :grouphug:

Re: Coil-over (427V8)
 

427V8,
most of use are desperately trying to lower our cars..

I have mine slammed to the ground and I love the ride, handling, and the look.......Front tire is just about under the front fender....the back tire sits one inch above fender.....I crank up four bolts and she sits at any level I want........I'll provide pictures you post. :seeya Cappy

Re: Coil-over (Twin_Turbo)
 

Here is what I pulled off of Koni's web site about the 8212..

Introduction of 82 series
The 8211 is introduced in the 1960 on the Formula 1 cars. The formula cars of that period used relatively low spring rates and the 82 series are specially suited to these. It is a twin tube damper with externaly adjustable bump and rebound damping. There is no need to dismount the damper from the car while adjusting. The 82 series are available in 8211 and 8212 versions.

8212 only available through KONI North America

The 8211 damper body is made of steel, while the 8212 damper body is made of high quality aluminium. Both dampers are independently adjustable in bump and rebound.

---------

I have found prices are about $400 a piece for them and they are double adjustable. As I said before, the shocks we are using compare very well with Koni and most other brands.

Re: Coil-over (burners)
 

400 a piece are probably the SPA1, they are for drag racing only. The non SPA1's are more expensive, somewhere around 550 or so.