Anxiety attack - Should I back out of this?
 

I have found a bone stock '02 in what appears to be very good condition with 50k on the clock. The seller and I have agreed on price.

My biggest worry now is the F45 suspension, which I gather is at best no better than the standard suspension and at worst an expensive repair waiting to happen. The car is at quite a distance from me so inspecting it personally would be impractical - and useless since I don't have the skills to evaluate something like leaking shocks.

I want nothing to do with extra stiff suspensions because I live in New England where the roads are too rough for that type of ride. I am expecting that the F45 will more like the standard suspension and not stiff like the Z51. Please tell me whether that expectation is right or wrong.

I plan to hire a professional auto inspector to look at the car. This particular issue of failing F45 shocks might not be in his wheelhouse since it is unlikely that he would be a Corvette aficionado.

So,

#1 is the F45 a disaster waiting to happen, or is it more likely that the shocks will last until, say, 100k miles?

#2 Is there any way to determine whether the shocks have started to leak if the car has been cleaned up to sell?

#3 - If the F45 is working as it should, is the ride rougher than the "soft" ride that you'd get if you didn't order any special suspension?

Thanks in advance for any advice you can provide.

Do a search in the tech section on the f45 shocks it's not hard to replace them with a standard shock. You fool the computer with a few resisters

Thanks. If it's that simple then my anxiety attack is over.

Replacement shocks are very inexpensive. You can get four C6 Z06 shocks for around $275 shipped. Mate those with C6 Z51 sway bars and you'll notice a tremendous difference in handling.

I would not let the shocks be an issue at all as the others have said.

Does your inspector know how to pull up the DIC trouble codes? No C5 inspection should be done without reading and recording them. Then clear them and go for a drive and pull them again.

I have the F45 as well and plan on replacing the shocks with Bilstein shocks soon. Already have the Sims. I think the entire project will cost between $400-$500. You can also find a video on the forum on how to remove the shocks using the zip tie method which will save you a lot of time.

As others have said, you can replace the F45 shocks with regarding shocks and just trick the computer into thinking they are still on the car (or tune them out). Not an expensive remedy should the F45 shocks go bad.

Since u r local I thought I might share this with you - car is in Windham, NH . I don't know the seller but have seen this car at events. For the $ it looks like a steal - obvious he put a ton of $ into it. Good luck with your search !!

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-c...uthern-nh.html

Don't let something like that stop you! I have the F45 suspension on mine and it actually works I can tell a slight difference between settings It's a very comfortable ride actually. I prefer a bit stiffer. I have since lowered the car but plan on yanking those f45 shocks out and replacing with Z06 (couple hundred bucks) or going coil over quite a bit more but I would leave yours alone at least for a while unless you have some sort of issue. Replacing with non F45 shocks no big deal at all. Now go get your car!!!! :D

I haven't yet contracted the inspector. I have until Monday to do so. I don't know if he has that skill. The car is just outside of Nashville. If anyone has someone local there to suggest, I'd be interested to know. I used a national company recently to inspect a Lexus and was pleased with the results, but it was a CPO so I figured Lexus had more to lose than I did by selling me a defective car. In this case, once I have paid for the car I'm on my own, so I's like to have someone with skill in Corvettes.

:iagree:

Tks for saving me a bunch of typing :D

Regards
Chip

I don't think the shocks or suspension should be a deterrent.

That said, I would never buy car I haven't laid hands on. Yes, it's a trip but if you've got the dough to buy the car, you've got the resources to get to Nashville (just a short hop to the museum) and a long weekend to see the car and bring it home.

I understand it's not convenient, but that's my .02 - -

CHip,

I have a couple of questions for you about the windscreen and the cover for the C5.

1. The car I am buying is yellow and it would be a hoot to have a yellow outdoor cover, but only if it is easily washable. Can that stormking cover go in a washing machine without damaging it? If not, then I should get a more sensible color.

2. The wind restrictor windscreen - if you get the illuminated one, then it appears that you have to choose from one of a few options on how to light it. I gather that the glow module, dimmer control and on/off switch are alternatives; and the battery pack and 12-volt plug are alternatives. So that a complete package for the illuminated screen would be, for example, the glow module and the 12-volt plug. Is that correct? And where does the 12-volt plug plug into ? Is there a receptacle in the trunk?

Thanks in advance.

You know that's a very sensible suggestion. What holds me back is that Massachusetts requires that the car be insured and registered before it is brought into the state. What I don't want to do is go down to inspect it, return to Mass to handle the paperwork, then return to drive it home.

However, since the car is at a dealer in Tennessee, maybe he can give me dealer plates for the drive home? Going down there to be with the inspector, then pay for it and drive it home .... that would be ideal. I'll work on it.

The insurance companies I've had typically will issue a card to carry coverage on any vehicle you drive if you give them the VIN. You might also see if anyone here--or that dealer if they're GM- will get you a VIS report on the car - -delivery info, warranty work etc that will support your decision to buy the car.

MA may have a temp tag you can print to carry with the new car in transit - - if you feel lucky, you can always take a tag off your daily driver and use that . . .

I offer these suggestions not as a criticism of your process, but went through a similar situation with a friend currently assigned in Saudi that found what he thought was a real deal on a c6 in Iowa . . .turned out with some research, it was a Lemon car and not worth buying in his view- but on first blush, it looked good.

Better to do your homework in person . . .and might be a fun 1100 miles home! Good luck. :thumbs:

My used car had the f 45 suspension replaced with Bilstein HD shocks, because it is lowered, and the computer was reset at that time. No complaints here.

I don't know how long the original shocks were in play, but hope yours are still hanging in there. The Bilsteins went on before I bought it , at about 80, 000 miles. The owner said it rode hard as (heck) and the new shocks are much better. Probably should have lengthened the conversation. At the time I was more interested in things that didn't report well.

I was kind of bummed , in that I like all the switches to be functional, and asked around for restoring the original shocks and control. I was quickly slapped down by pointing out I would be spending a lot of money on obsolete tech, and coil-overs were the way to go.
I decided to get happy with what I have, and no longer miss the control switch being active.

Good luck with your new purchase, I hope it goes well. I hear it is beautiful country up that way.

the fact you have to hire someone to inspect the car already makes me worry. if you have issues with the f45 will you have to hire that out as well? if so this could get expensive

I have the F45 suspension and over 130k miles. Don't worry about it.

:iagree: Replaced my F45 suspension several years ago with Pfadt coil overs. Very easy process. :cheers:

I'm not sure I understand. The car is 1100 miles away and I have no expertise. What would be the point of my going to look at it? I have 40 photos showing every little visual detail. What I can't assess is the mechanical condition and my being there wouldn't do much. The inspector will be able to drive it, put it up on a lift and examine it. He'll be able to evaluate it better than I.

And yes, if I have issues with the f45 I will bring it to the local Corvette guru -- or the GM dealer that I trust -- and ask him to fix it. And yes, that costs money, but that's how it works for those of us with little mechanical knowledge or skill. Fortunately I have other skills that provide me with wherewithal to afford to have a mechanic fix my car.

I would love to do the homework in person, but other factors in my life are not going to permit it. I will take your other suggestions to heart though, and I thank you for them.

Put a request in the regional section. I'm sure there is a local CF who would be happy to do it.

well, my point is i would never recommend buying a c5 with no expertise in auto repair. they are just too old and it's expensive to hire it out.

if you make the money to do this sort of thing, my vote would be for a 2008-2013 c6 which can be had for pretty good deals these days

I have a '99 that came with the F45 originally. I couldn't really tell any difference over the three settings. A couple of years ago, I got a good deal on some Z06 shocks so I put them on, even though the F45s still seemed okay. Through this forum, I got lucky to get assistance from Bill Curlee in tuning them out. He and I met up at Carlisle and he used his Tech II.

With the Z06 shocks and anti-sway bars and new metal end links, the handling noticeably improved. Just got back today from a week-long trip to Stockbridge, MA, and Stowe, VT, and did not think the ride was too hard for the New England roads.

I'm with the consensus on this - don't let the F45 be a deterrent.

K9Leader
Red cars are faster. At least, they feel faster.

The least expensive C6 convertible with 50k miles or less that I have found is $8k more than I am paying for this car. In the next 4 years, is the C5 going to chew up that much more in repair costs?

I bought a C6, the body style never grew on me like I thought it would. I couldn't pull my codes from the DIC. Didn't like the electronic door handles. Hated the fob in your pocket push the button to start style. To say you can buy a C6 for a little more doesn't necessarily mean you'll be happier. I went back to a C5 and feel much more comfortable, and they still get lots of attention from non-car people who think they are new.
I will go along with the sentiment, don't let the F45 influence you. It may work and you may like it. When and if it fails, you can replace the shocks and disable it. To answer your other question, I can't imagine that you would have to spend even a couple of thousand for repairs on the C5. I've had 5 and they are very dependable, reliable cars. They have a few things that are problematic, but they almost all have reasonable fixes available (after 2001 anyway)

correct, and resale will be higher when you go to sell it. meanwhile you'll have a newer car

but

if you like the c5 more, none of that matters, you simply buy a nice example and enjoy it

I like the C6 a bit more but not a by a lot. I find both quite beautiful in their own way. I prefer the greater sophistication of the C6 and the beauty of the C5. The only C6 that I could afford would be an '05 or an '06. Is 3 or 4 years of relative youth worth a 33% increase in purchase price? Perhaps it is, but my wife, who is second to none in anxiety, would have a stroke if I bought a C6 ... unless I waited until winter, when the prices of convertibles comes down.

So my choice is between a beautiful C5 that I can enjoy now and a sophisticated C6 that I can enjoy next year. Unless the C5 is going to be one headache after another, I am inclined to go for now. (I am 67 years old. My confidence in next year arriving is shaky.)

I have a 2010 Lexus CPO (with 3 years of warranty ahead of it) as a winter beater / summer backup. I don't need the C5 for daily reliability, but I want to be able to take a 200 mile trip without worrying whether I will be able to make it back without being towed. From what I understand after months of reading this forum, the C5 is at least that reliable. But this is only wisdom gleaned from reading a self-selected message board. If others wish to educate me as to the true risk associated with taking on a C5, I am all ears.

When I was a young pup I bought a beautiful Rover TC2000. I took it for a shake-down cruise on the Blue Ridge Parkway. It broke down, I had to get towed, and nobody in North Carolina know how to work on that car. That was the beginning of a long, tempestuous and expensive relationship that ended 4 years later with me abandoning the car on the Ohio Turnpike. (I believe that the statute of limitations has run on that crime.)

If the C5 is like that, then I will wait until winter and buy a C6 when the prices come down. Nothing I have read, however, suggests any resemblance between the Rover and the Corvette. Please educate me if I am wrong.

By the way, I want to say how much I appreciate the wisdom of this crowd. Without this forum, I would never have known how to approach buying a second-hand Corvette. I don't know half as much as those who actually own them, of course, but I know a hell of a lot more than I did 4 months ago when I first came here. Thank you all for that. It has been fun learning and I have enjoyed your company.
.

based on what you just said a c5 makes sense for you. unless you simply like the c6 body more there's really little difference between an 04 and an 05 regarding reliability. in fact it's easy to argue the 04 is more reliable since it was the perfected c5 and the 05 was the first year c6....which did have a few issues.

this particular car may or may not be the one for you. what i can say is the more you read, the more you learn, and the more you study the cars, the better choice you'll make when it comes to buying.

Nice options:iagree:

Of all the thousands and thousands of C5's made, the majority have been driven with no issues. If you read on the forum 20 times that a car had (fill in your own issue), that sounds like a lot. However as a total percentage, it's no more troublesome than any other car. They just don't have a forum to share information on problems and fixes. I'm on my 5th C5 and the only problems I've had are minor. The most difficult to fix so far was the oil pressure sender, and that was fixed by learning here what to do. You need to get over this anxiety stuff and move on. Do you NOT buy a tv because the sound may go out? That has happened on a few of them, you know.

I reported the VIN to my local GM dealer. He looked it up and found that there was no warranty work done on the car other than the steering wheel lockout recall. He printed out the build sheet for me to pick up.

I have had no offers from anyone local to assist with the DIC trouble codes, so I plan to make sure that the inspector does this himself. If I understand the matter, step 1 is to collect the codes, step 2 is to clear them, step 3 is to drive the car, step 4 is to read them again. I gather that the ones that show up on the second reading are the ones most likely to be a current problem, and the others might be a sign of trouble or they might be ancient history. Is that correct?

You are correct about the codes. Just make sure he notes under what module heading the codes occur and if they are H, C, or H and C.

Have him view this also.


Once the system has displayed all modules, it goes into the manual mode which allows selection of each module using combinations of Driver Information Center buttons. Manual mode can also be entered during the automatic sequence by pressing any button except E/M. Once the display shows Manual Diagnostics, select a module by pressing the OPTIONS button to go forward or the TRIP button to go back. Once a module is selected, a code is displayed, and if more than one are present; press GAGES to go forward or FUEL to go back.

To exit the diagnostic mode at any time, press E/M.

OK, the inspection has been done. Here are the results. First of all, there were 10 diagnostic codes before the road test. None of the codes had an H after them. The inspector then cleared them, drove the car, and then checked. There were no codes after the test. Here are the codes:

PCM - code P1631 (thefte deterrent password incorrect)
TCS module - codes P1214 (sol valve relay contact or sensor) and P1226 (LF wheel excessive spin)
LDCM module - B2214 ??; B2282 and 2284 (battery faults), U1064 (loss of communication with BCM)
RDCM module: B2283 and 2285 (batery faults) and U1064 (loss of communication with BCM)

In addition, the inspector noted the following:

tranmission fluid level sensor shows heavy seepage of fluid. Either the sensor or the seal needs to be replaced.

Driver's seat - left shoulder area - seat moves too much. The prior owner may have been a heavy guy who wore out the left shoulder of the seat grabbing his seat belt.

Right rear storage bin has 3 inches of water and the carpet staples are rusted.

Right and left outer tie rod boots are dry rotted and cracked, but not split.

left headlight motor contines to run for 3 seconds after the headlights close.

Driver's side mirror - top 1/4 inch is very dull. Liquid seeping out?

Shocks - no sign of leaks.

Bushings OK excper for the tie rod boots.

******

Photos suggest that the body is in very good shape.

This is a 12 year old car, I don't expect everything to be perfect. But I am paying a slight premium over NADA pricing, so I expect the car to be in pretty good shape, with no really major repairs needed right away.

What do you make of this report? Walk away? Run away? Go for the gusto and have fun driving this sucker?

Well the TC/ABS light should be ON with the 1214 code. Headlights will new new gears soon if not now. Cheap fix <$200 but the water in the trunk would be a show stopper for me. I say RUN.

Thank you for the reply. I thought that this thread had died so I re-posted. A $150 repair bill is not a worry. A $1,500 repair bill is a worry.

The inspector did check the codes before and after the test drive, but I never told him to do the second check before turning off the engine. That's the first I've heard of that.

I am worried about the water in the back. No telling where it came from.

I'm betting it's had some body work done and now it leaks water. How much is this thing?

He cleared them after the first pull and before the test drive. After the test drive, no codes came up. Befor the test drive, there were 10 codes, but none had an "H" after them.

The 1214 WILL COME BACK!!! Really sounds like your trying to talk yourself into this nightmare. Water in the trunk is NEVER a good sign.

Getting personal aren't you? :D It's about $21k. 51k miles on the clock.

Man, I'd sell my 01' vert for about that and it has ZERO issues and less mileage. RUN FOREST RUN.

I'm not trying to talk myself into anything. If I were, I wouldn't have asked for advice here.

The water is not in the trunk, it is in the cubby behind the passenger seat. Not that that's any better, but it seems to me indicative of a leaky roof, not body work. I have no desire to have a leaky roof, but I'm just pointing that out.

This forum is funny when it comes to price. I posted a WTB on the C5 for sale forum indicating I'd go up to $24k and I got exactly one response. (I am still in touch with him and may well end up going in his direction.) When someone says that they are going to pay $XX, everyone says that's way too much. Then when folks list their cars for sale here, the prices are MUCH higher.

RUN FOREST RUN is a great line, though. Thanks for that. I may well do just that. I am going to see what other advice I get and then sleep on it.

it's a weird market, always has been

i didn't even look on the forum when i was shopping. just too much weird here. on ebay and craigslist people sell.

too many waxers on this board that i swear, sometimes post ads just to see the responses