Obviously, at the same horsepower level with less weight, the car will be faster. I wasn't debating that. That is why I drive a 3000lb car; I prefer light weight to huge power.

However, since big cars don't weigh 3200lbs, big power is the only way to make them quick. I was merely pointing out that 10s was not an unreasonable expectation for this vehicle based on the performance of similarly-heavy vehicles with similar power numbers.

Any Viper owner who actually cares how much power the 4xxxlb Challenger makes vs their 3400lb Viper is clueless... seriously, GM did this EXACT same thing in 2008 when they introduced the CTS-V with 556hp to the Z06's 505... the Z06 still tore up the V in every performance metric and nobody with any brains was pissed about the V

Exactly. It won't, know that. The TA was just a hair quicker at Laguna Seca vs the ZR1 on the MPSC, which means the Viper TA is going to be sub-7:20s at the Ring. By all accounts, the Z/28 is capable of mid-high 7:20s (991 GT3 territory) with the official time of 7:37 being run in the rain, and the ZL1 and GT500 were in the 7:40s territory (dry track). It's going to take a lot more than power to get the Hellcat to leapfrog not only everything in its class, but also the ZR1 and TA. It's certainly not going to happen on those 275s.

It was definitely both. Dodge and Chevy have both proven they can move cars in the $100k range, but the perception change that occurs beyond that price point turns off the established customers and fails to attract the customers who would typically buy from brands with higher social repute, such as the options in the 911 and R8 range. Between that and alienating potential buyers who took the time to visit an SRT dealer (and who would be treated vastly better by Audi or Porsche), the Viper just couldn't establish the foothold it needed to make a business case for itself. It is truly unfortunate.

Well I agree that if you start with an ET goal all you have to do is figure out how much power you need to get there. That's just math and money.

When I read the title to the thread, it seemed like it was a comparison to the Z06.....and considering it is in the C7Z section it seems even more so. So the responses are logical math comparison types.

If the intention was just News as information, it would be in the Other Cars section.

Exactly. I am not the OP; many in here (including the OP) are talking about the Hellcat power announcement as though it is somehow relevant to the new Z06. It is clearly not; my response bringing up the CTS-V and such was merely to debate the point that there's no way this thing could do tens, but simultaneously to debate the point that this new Dodge somehow discounts the Viper :cheers:

C7 Z06 > Viper > Shelby GT500 > Hellcat SRT8

Not that I dont like the looks of the new challenger but, Dodge is notorious for lying about horse power levels. When they first introduced the New Hemi trucks Dodge claimed them to put out 350 hp. Independant testers had the power level at 275. I could understand 345 or 340, but 275! thats stretching it too much. That is why chevy had an independant tester certify the Z06 to 505 hp. That test was done with full stock exhaust and all Accessories. Until an independant tester gets hold of the new 707 I won't believe what Dodge is rating thier car at.

I have never heard that or seen it personally with my own experiences with Dodges. If anything they under rate their cars. In this case I would say that these "independent testers" were giving rear wheel hp versus flywheel, which then 275 is about the norm for what the Hemi Ram's put down to the ground when they were rated from factory which is 345. Both of my Hemi Rams made 270+ to the tires, that is with the factory 20's, etc.

My SRT-392 Challenger makes 430 rwhp stock and is only "rated" at 470. This is through the auto which means 1 of 2 things. 1. it is really underrated and is closer to 500, or 2.this auto trans and drivetrain is more efficient (takes less power to run) than all the other auto transmissions out there. I am leaning towards number 1.

But at this point, all we can do is wait a few more weeks until other numbers are released and hopefully by fall of this year we will see some real world numbers instead of everyone guessing and speculating about what they will be. :thumbs:

Yep

These are two completely different cars, one is a muscle car and the other one is a precision sports car.

A VERY reliable source on a major Challenger forum just implied the base Hellcat will come in at "$59,990?" .......Lets see if he is about right :)

I believe it. Same ballpark as ZL1 and GT500.

There's not a SINGLE 5.7 HEMI in the world, when running right, that makes 275 on an engine dyno. That engine remain largely unchanged from 2003 to 2009, and their rwhp are very indicative of crank hp. Neither under-rated nor over-rated.

Now, if you're talking rwhp, 275 is actually very GOOD on a 3rd gen Ram. Most dyno 25x.

Why? The ancient piece of crap 545RFE. Which is an old 4 speed auto designed for the Grand Cherokee, with a 5th programmed in to call it "5 speed". In 2012, marketing reprogrammed it again to make it a useless "6 speed".

It's weak, and the HEMI is hit with severe torque management. That coupled with a transfer case in a truck, and you loose 30+% of power at the wheels.

I wonder too, just how sticky the modern extreme performance Pirelli (and others) rubbers are getting.

Are they approaching a DR, when warmed up, and air down to say, 20 psi? What about the Trofeo R and Cup/Cup2?

I have Cups, but they're heat cycled a bit, that and I'm worthless at drag racing...

Me too, would love to see a Hellcat Cherokee. But the concensus on CherokeeSRT forums (I know, not exactly official) seems like it's a slim chance in hell.

Guess they have to be careful not to tread into X5M price territory and turn into into another Viper.

I have run 12.90s with just a CAI, high flow cats and exhaust, in my 2008 Challenger SRT8 with its auto trans with less than 250 HP and and Torque than the new Chally Hellcat.


With the extra power of the Hellcat it will run 10.8s/10.9s all day long with an auto tranny and drag radials. :yesnod:

Exactly! So many want to discount this and that because of the weight and yet they forget that little GTR over there. Yes, it did it with AWD though which will help it hook up really well. But those same people in denial forgot to add that little caveat.

I personally think the Z06 will be quicker around a track and will more than likely be quicker in the 1/4. I think tires will play a big part in the Z06 being able to hook better but who knows. You never know who will win until you line them up and race.

And for the clowns who say the Challenger interior is a joke, they must have been living in a closet the last couple of years. The interior was and has been a strong point for the Challenger. Don't discount the boys over at SRT. They have had the time to get some things worked out right for this car. The thing that makes me cringe and get pissed off is why did they wait so long to get a car in this race?

You can't be serious about that. The 707 HP was SAE rated.

we all have different standards, it's what makes life so great!

This is why Dodge/Chrysler has been total $#!T for the longest time.

I have zero respect for their company. Their solutions to compete in the marketplace are horrible. They don't address their weakest links. They put bandaids on knife rounds. Their bean counters and engineering teams make the worst decisions on what it means to improve car performance. Bunch of fukking idiots.

Can I be more blunt and honest?

Ford and Chevy are making all the correct improvements to their vehicle lineups to be well rounded cars for their respective market segments.


A 1000hp Hellcat for $50k wouldn't get me to pull out my wallet if it still rides on the current platform. All they did was throw more horsepower at it and further worsen it's most obvious problem by making it heavier. That's not a great accomplishment anymore. Any company can put out a 700hp engine. But if it's on an old, overoversized, bloated yacht chassis, it's still garbage. I'm not impressed by this car at all.

$60k for a car still using parts from 1990s MBs?

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

LMFAO......:)

You know what.......

......I am going to enjoy my Transformers...pushrod...no DCT...sure to be recalled ... spat having...
government motors.... 650HP/650TQ C7 Z06/Z07

I will also enjoy my Hippo, Pig...ancient platform...turn the wheel it still goes straight into a F'in wall......Fiat owned.... Mercedes Benz classic derived...707HP/650TQ Hellcat.......

Just call me a glutton for punishment...........